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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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 Tue May 16, 2006 5:55 pm Iraq Has a Lower Violent Death Rate than DC |
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| Quote: | Spinning The Reality Of Iraq War
It's that time of year when New Yorkers start making their summer vacation plans. Renting a place in the Hamptons? Nah, been there, done that. How about a Parisian jaunt? Noooo. Too many riots. Well, how about visiting a country that's ancient, historic, beautiful and exotic - Iraq? Sure, there's a little war going on there, but when you look at the violent death statistics in the world, it's safer than a number of other popular travel destinations. Believe it or not.
I happened to catch Rep. Steve King, a Republican of Iowa, on C-span last week and he rattled off some startling figures that demonstrate how off-base journalists are when it comes to reporting on the war in Iraq. According to Mr. King, the violent death rate in Iraq is 25.71 per 100,000. That may sound high, but not when you compare it to places like Colombia (61.7), South Africa (49.6), Jamaica (32.4), and Venezuela (31.6). How about the violent death rates in American cities? New Orleans before Hurricane Katrina was 53.1. FBI statistics for 2004-05 have Washington at 45.9, Baltimore at 37.7, and Atlanta at 34.9.
Source |
The whole article isn't available to regular people, but I think it really puts the war into perspective--a perspective the liberal media doesn't want you to see.
(Also see: Rush's take on this(
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Wed May 17, 2006 6:57 am |
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Why is this report only available to irregular people? I think I qualify - how do I sign up?
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"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed May 17, 2006 6:04 pm |
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lol. What I mean is, you have to be a subscriber to view the whole article, and I believe it costs money to be a subscriber.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Wed May 17, 2006 7:29 pm |
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This is wierd....
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed May 17, 2006 7:36 pm |
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Weird? How is it weird?
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Wed May 17, 2006 8:41 pm |
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I'd heard this information previously, but since it was oral, I had no source.
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Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Wed May 17, 2006 9:48 pm |
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Just out of curiosity, how do they calculate those numbers? Statistics can be easily manipulated and I'm curious as to how they are figuring that out.
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Wed May 17, 2006 9:59 pm |
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| TrekkieMage wrote: | | Just out of curiosity, how do they calculate those numbers? Statistics can be easily manipulated and I'm curious as to how they are figuring that out. |
I'd like to know that to, cause despite the 'numbers' theres no way in hell I'd go to Iraq
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed May 17, 2006 10:05 pm |
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Oh, I'd love to go to the Kurdish region--seriously. So peaceful and beautiful...
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Kyle Reese
Cadet Gunnery Sergeant
Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 5672
Location: The United States of America
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| Thu May 18, 2006 3:03 pm |
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| Lord Borg wrote: | | TrekkieMage wrote: | | Just out of curiosity, how do they calculate those numbers? Statistics can be easily manipulated and I'm curious as to how they are figuring that out. |
I'd like to know that to, cause despite the 'numbers' theres no way in hell I'd go to Iraq |
Yeah, cause the media wants us to think Iraq is nothing but pure hell.
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Thu May 18, 2006 4:35 pm |
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Despite any numbers, I wouldn't want to go anywhere in urban DC.
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Kyle Reese
Cadet Gunnery Sergeant
Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 5672
Location: The United States of America
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| Thu May 18, 2006 4:56 pm |
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| LightningBoy wrote: | | Despite any numbers, I wouldn't want to go anywhere in urban DC. |
Yep, Gun Control = Bad  
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Fri May 19, 2006 12:06 pm |
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| LightningBoy wrote: | | Despite any numbers, I wouldn't want to go anywhere in urban DC. |
Um. Hi. I live right near D.C., hence me asking about the numbers. I certainly am not afraid for my life here -- far from it actually. I know that there tends to be a lot of violence in certain areas of D.C., but compared to Iraq? My impression is that violence in Iraq is escalating, while violence in D.C. is dropping.
| Quote: | | In the past ten years, the number of homicides has been halved � from 399 in 1994 to 195 in 2005. It is believed by many that the gentrification of these neighborhoods was spurred in part by the extension of Metrorail's Green Line to the Shaw, U Street, Columbia Heights, and Petworth neighborhoods during the late 1990s. |
Also, the violent death rate in D.C. is 35.7 per 1,000 and not 45.9 per 1,000 as that article says.
Also, we don't know how many have died in Iraq. All we can go is give educated guesses. Wikipedia lists that anywhere from 35,000 to 100,000 civilians have died, military casualties estimates are all over the map, then comes the question of who are we counting. Are American citizens/soldiers deaths being counted in that tally? Are any military personal being counted? Are any deaths from the War being counted?
In effect, we don't know this information. And I feel (note the word feel, it's an instinct/gut reaction, not a solid opinion or fact: just to avoid misunderstandings) like this report is totally biased and has been twisted to suit the needs of the reporter. That is why I am asking for how those numbers are bing calculated.
Source Articles used: Crime in Waschington D.C.; Iraq; Iraq War; Casualties of the conflict in Iraq since 2003.
Oh, in response to Kyle Reese: gun control works, it's just that in the states surrounding D.C. gun laws aren't as strict. I feel like that's where the problem is.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri May 19, 2006 12:15 pm |
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Uh-huh. You see bias...why? Maybe that number is a bit incorrect, but the fact is that the death rate in Iraq now is that number. Not in the past, but now. How you can pretty much flat-out deny it is beyond me, and makes me think that it's for purely political reasons that you do so.
| Quote: | | I know that there tends to be a lot of violence in certain areas of D.C., but compared to Iraq? My impression is that violence in Iraq is escalating, while violence in D.C. is dropping. |
Your impression comes from the media, which makes Iraq seem like a war gone wrong, that everything there is horrible. That is a false, inaccurate expression, if not down-right misleading.
Things are greatly improving in Iraq--it's going quite well--but with the way the media portrays the situation, you wouldn't think so.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Fri May 19, 2006 12:26 pm |
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Don't believe everything you think. 
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Fri May 19, 2006 3:02 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | Uh-huh. You see bias...why? Maybe that number is a bit incorrect, but the fact is that the death rate in Iraq now is that number. Not in the past, but now. How you can pretty much flat-out deny it is beyond me, and makes me think that it's for purely political reasons that you do so.
| Quote: | | I know that there tends to be a lot of violence in certain areas of D.C., but compared to Iraq? My impression is that violence in Iraq is escalating, while violence in D.C. is dropping. |
Your impression comes from the media, which makes Iraq seem like a war gone wrong, that everything there is horrible. That is a false, inaccurate expression, if not down-right misleading.
Things are greatly improving in Iraq--it's going quite well--but with the way the media portrays the situation, you wouldn't think so. |
If the numbers are incorrect how can we trust them? I don't believe those numbers for two reasons:
1. They got the numbers wrong for D.C. --a reletively politically stable enviorment -- how do we know they got them right for Iraq which is political and social turmoil?
2. How do we know what the numbers are in Iraq in the first place? I have yet to hear anyone agree on a number. This is because people are having a hard time keeping track of bodies that aren't taken to a morgue.
I am not getting my impression from the media. I am getting my impresstion for the fact that I live in D.C. and the fact that there is a war going on in that country.
| Quote: | | How you can pretty much flat-out deny it is beyond me, and makes me think that it's for purely political reasons that you do so. |
How you can accept this without even a flicker of doubt is beyond me.
Usually when I doubt facts, it's because I've seen conflicting statements and information, not because the media has influenced me. I don't watch TV news because I think it's all soft news, I usually get my news from BBC, CNN (rarely), the Washington Post, or the New York Times. All are high brow news outlets (well, not CNN, but I don't use it all that often).
Also, I got this about your source (New York Sun):
| Quote: | | The paper's staff include many well-known political conservatives. |
| Quote: | | Like the Washington Times, which was launched as a conservative rival to the Washington Post, the Sun is close to the Republican Party and neoconservative intellectuals. Especially on foreign policy issues the Sun's editorial opinions resemble those of the Jerusalem Post or the neoconservative The Weekly Standard magazine. |
Source
See why I'm concerned about the neutrality and the bias of this article?
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri May 19, 2006 4:36 pm |
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Oh, I'll give you that the Sun is a conservative newspaper--one of the VERY few out there. But it's one of the few out there, and I'm inclined to believe its truth. This isn't the first time I've heard about this.
And what I meant about you and the media was a response to the following:
| Quote: | | My impression is that violence in Iraq is escalating |
That's what the media--the outlets you read/watch, which are all liberal biased--is making the impression for.
You're worried about this article having bias, yet not the NY Times? That's kind-of funny 
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Fri May 19, 2006 9:56 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | Oh, I'll give you that the Sun is a conservative newspaper--one of the VERY few out there. But it's one of the few out there, and I'm inclined to believe its truth. This isn't the first time I've heard about this.
And what I meant about you and the media was a response to the following:
| Quote: | | My impression is that violence in Iraq is escalating |
That's what the media--the outlets you read/watch, which are all liberal biased--is making the impression for.
You're worried about this article having bias, yet not the NY Times? That's kind-of funny |
You're inclined to believe it's the truth just because it's conservative? Last time I checked conservatives could manipulate facts just as well as liberals.
My impression also comes from the fact that this is a war. Official or not. And I find it very hard to believe that in a country with a war going on, the violence rate would be going down.
Also: I find it rather infuriating that you are only inclined to believe the conservative tilt, and are then calling me biased. I'm just trying to make sense of the information given to me in this article, and it doesn't add up to me. And when I say this, and point out facts proving my point I get acused of beign biased. No comment on the data I've shown, no curiosity, just "it's conservative, I believe it." That's how we become biased: by not being critial of all articles like this (ie, articles with 'hard' facts/opinions/data/etc.) instead of just the opposing view. Does that make sense?
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri May 19, 2006 10:04 pm |
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Apologies for the drive-by post right now; I'll further explain myself later, but for now, my reasoning for believing this is not because its a conservative media outlet. They're your taking my words out of context.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Fri May 19, 2006 10:37 pm |
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She's not alone I to, got the impression you were saying you belive in your scources as they are conservitive. Iraq is a war zone with people dying from terrorism, or the battles between the armies (respectivly) everyday. DC, people die (yeah, I know every day) from murders, and car accidents (not counting natural causes and such) major differnces there, I'd take my chanced in DC before i would in Iraq
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Sat May 20, 2006 5:01 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Apologies for the drive-by post right now; I'll further explain myself later, but for now, my reasoning for believing this is not because its a conservative media outlet. They're your taking my words out of context. |
Lemme point out where I'm getting this from:
| Quote: | | Oh, I'll give you that the Sun is a conservative newspaper--one of the VERY few out there. But it's one of the few out there, and I'm inclined to believe its truth. |
^ If you believe this one article for reasons other than the fact that it's conservative, than this statement if very misleading.
| Quote: | | Maybe that number is a bit incorrect, but the fact is that the death rate in Iraq now is that number. |
^ This one leads me to believe that despite the fact that one number has been proven incorrect, you still trust the data. Why? You have yet to explain that to me.
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