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Puck
The Texan
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 Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:18 pm Day Without Immigrants Approaches |
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Day without immigrants approaches
Some big businesses closing for the day
NEW YORK (AP) -- Now that immigrants have grabbed the nation's attention, what next?
Monday has been set aside for immigrants to boycott work, school and shopping to show how much they matter to their communities.
But with some growing tired of street protests, and others afraid they'll be deported or fired for walking out, people are planning to support the effort in myriad ways.
Some will work but buy nothing on Monday. Others will protest at lunch breaks or at rallies after work. There will be church services, candlelight vigils, picnics and human chains.
The range of activities shows both how powerful the immigrants' rights movement has become in a matter of weeks, and that organizers don't yet have a clear focus on its next step.
"It's highly unpredictable what's going to happen," said Harley Shaiken, director of the Center for Latin American studies at the University of California, Berkeley. "What unites everyone that's going to do something on May 1 is they are making visible their strong feelings."
Thanks to the success of previous rallies plus media attention, planning for Monday's events, collectively called Un Dia Sin Inmigrantes -- A Day Without Immigrants -- is widespread.
Officials in Los Angeles braced for huge crowds: Assistant Police Chief George Gascon said as many as 500,000 people could take part.
In smaller cities such as Allentown, Pennsylvania, Omaha, Nebraska, and Knoxville, Tennessee, immigrants and their allies have been going door to door with fliers, making posters and sharpening speeches. In New Mexico, restaurants cooked meals this weekend that they'll donate food for Monday picnics in Santa Fe and Albuquerque.
In Pomona, California, about 30 miles east of Los Angeles, dozens of men who frequent a day labor center voted unanimously to close Monday, said Mike Nava, the center's director.
"If anyone even comes around looking for work that day," Nava said, "the men want him suspended."
Some insist that a boycott is the next key step -- beyond marches -- to show the nation just how much economic power undocumented workers hold. "The marches are a tool, but they are being overused," said Mahonrry Hidalgo, head of the immigration committee of New Jersey's Latino Leadership Alliance. Like civil rights boycotts of decades past, he said, "this could finally be the spark for our people to advance."
In New Jersey, Rhode Island and Pennsylvania, people boycotting work will march to the offices of elected officials to urge them to support pro-immigrant legislation. In California, although a spokeswoman for Republican Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said a boycott would "hurt everyone," Democratic state senators passed a resolution supporting walkouts.
On the fence over boycott
Still, there's a big divide over the boycott's merits.
"To encourage people not to go to work or children not to go to school is counterproductive," Sen. Trent Lott, R-Mississippi, said Sunday on CNN's "Late Edition."
Opponents of illegal immigration spent the weekend building a fence to symbolize their support of a secure border. About 200 volunteers organized by the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps of California worked on a 6-foot barbed-wire fence along a quarter-mile stretch of rugged terrain near the U.S.-Mexico border about 50 miles east of San Diego.
Many worry that not working or spending money will alienate business leaders, and that cutting classes sends an anti-education message. Even Los Angeles' Spanish-language disc jockeys, who helped fuel marches hundreds of thousands strong in recent weeks, have toned it down. "We have to demonstrate that we came here to succeed," said Eduardo Sotelo, whose morning show, "Piolin por la Manana," is syndicated nationwide.
Many of Monday's organizers are finding less contentious ways of joining.
Some marches and voter information meetings are scheduled for after work and school hours. Those who go to school or work are being urged to wear white clothes or white armbands. Several school districts have sent letters home to parents and threatened punishment if students have unexcused absences, but some plan to focus on immigration issues in classes and seminars on campus.
In each of New York City's five boroughs, thousands of workers are expected to take work breaks shortly after noon to link arms with shoppers, restaurant-goers and other supporters along city sidewalks for about 20 minutes. "This will symbolize the interdependence of all of us, not just immigrants, but all of society," said Chung-Wa Hong, executive director of the New York Immigration Coalition.
Organizers in Phoenix hoped to have enough people to make a 25-mile human chain winding through the city to symbolize the unity of the Latino community on the day observed elsewhere around the world as International Workers' Day. However, they canceled that plan because of safety concerns and instead set out several smaller demonstrations.
Some businesses join in
Many hope that workers' bosses also will join their efforts -- and some already are showing their support.
Some big businesses are shutting down operations, corporate spokesmen said: Six of 14 Perdue Farms plants will close; Gallo Wines in Sonoma, California, is giving its 150 employees the day off; Tyson Foods Inc., the world's largest meat producer, will shut five of its nine beef plants and four of six pork plants.
Greg Schirf, owner of Wasatch Beers in Utah, said that when some of his Latino employees sheepishly asked if they could take off Monday, he responded: "How about this? We'll just take a company holiday. We'll call it 'Latino Appreciation Day."'
Such attitudes are quelling some of the anxiety that has bubbled up nationwide since federal officials arrested more than 1,100 immigrant employees and seven managers at 40 sites of IFCO Systems, which makes crates and pallets. Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said he plans to step up workplace enforcement of immigration laws.
"During information we've been presenting to different organizations (about Monday's events), we usually spend 20 to 30 minutes just explaining if we were to have or not have a raid," said Houston activist Maria Jimenez of the Central American Resource Center. "We've seen a lot of fear in the community." (More on fears)
Many are expected to find solace in religious services.
The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops urged immigrants to attend Mass instead of boycotting and suggested that churches toll their bells in memory of immigrants who died trying to come to the U.S.
Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
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This whole idea is ridiculous, and this 'protesting' is going too far even for me. You want people to welcome you more warmly to the United States, fine. But this 'protest' tomorrow is stupid. It is not going to gain immigrants any support, and is only showing Americans that those who walk out of work and school tomorrow don't want to work. That is not the way to get citizens to warm up to immigrants, because Americans value hardwork.
Also, this whole story about the national anthem being sung and broadcast in Spanish is absolutly apalling and really turns me away from their cause, which up until lately, I have been very supportive of.
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Republican_Man
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| Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:26 pm |
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I entirely agree with you, Kevin. This is just sickening, especially the boycott of schools. That's just wrong how they're discouraging education. Even proponents of the boycott think that aspect is too far.
A girl in my Spanish class, for instance, whose mom is going to be closing down her shop in support of this (legal Columbian immigrants, all) offered for her daughter to take the day off from school. She declined, but only because of "Soccer."
This is sickening and doesn't look too good on their part. If they want to get support they're going about it the wrong way.
I tell you, I'm not a racist, but some of the things I've noticed of late are slowly turning me in that direction, as much as I don't want to admit or accept or anything like that. And it's all because of how a minority are acting. That fact disturbs me, especially considering I like many Lation folks and love Spanish and have wanted to visit Mexico and Puerto Rico all my life...
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Lord Borg
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| Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:41 pm |
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blah blah blah blah. They give hard working people a bad name, the really do. The imigrants and US citizens (This is speaking on terms of immigrants that are not yet a US Citizen or some other thing,) that are going to work, or want to work etc... are the ones that will suffar.
Thanks alot guys/Sarcasam.
I'm going to have to listen to savage tomorrow night, see what he has to say, he rocks on stuff like this
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Republican_Man
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| Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:47 pm |
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That he does. That he does.
And not only does it give hardworking people a bad name, but it makes you wonder about the legal citizens out there. Do they have a job?
My guess is that they'll just be a bunch of bums who don't work, because it's kind-of difficult to get out of work without retribution, y'know?
Or they'll consist of many Catholics (not your average one, but the church itself) or other Christian groups out there with your usual liberal folks and everything.
Gotta say, if there are a lot more Catholics out there I'm leaving the church  j/k
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Lord Borg
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| Sun Apr 30, 2006 7:01 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | That he does. That he does.
And not only does it give hardworking people a bad name, but it makes you wonder about the legal citizens out there. Do they have a job?
My guess is that they'll just be a bunch of bums who don't work, because it's kind-of difficult to get out of work without retribution, y'know?
Or they'll consist of many Catholics (not your average one, but the church itself) or other Christian groups out there with your usual liberal folks and everything.
Gotta say, if there are a lot more Catholics out there I'm leaving the church j/k |
HUH  What's that supposed to mean? The first part is basicly what i said, but the rest
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Republican_Man
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| Sun Apr 30, 2006 7:15 pm |
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I mean, for those American citizens that will be protesting it makes you wonder if they actually have a job or are simply part of non-profit organizations. Basically Savage's point two weeks ago. I can't quite put it into words as well as he could, lol.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Lord Borg
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| Sun Apr 30, 2006 7:19 pm |
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Oh, yeah! "I want my country back"
my favs....
"I am the voice of america... I AM the voice of america.."
BOT
I to, have to wonder... it dont matter really, all that matters is their all convinved they make this country run by doing "lowly" jobs no one wants. Funny, I'm an american citizen, have a job no one wants (Hell, I Don't want it...) but I'm not going to "protess" or skip work one, I'd loose the hours (But mainly my father would kill me) If they were serious about caring for thier jobs etc... they wouldn't do this
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Republican_Man
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| Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:12 pm |
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Exactly his point. If they were really good workers and all that they wouldn't be doing this, because they'd lose their jobs.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Lord Borg
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| Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:13 pm |
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Still, though, both sides have thier flaws how thier handeling this, I hope we can get this settled
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:28 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | That he does. That he does.
And not only does it give hardworking people a bad name, but it makes you wonder about the legal citizens out there. Do they have a job?
My guess is that they'll just be a bunch of bums who don't work, because it's kind-of difficult to get out of work without retribution, y'know?
Or they'll consist of many Catholics (not your average one, but the church itself) or other Christian groups out there with your usual liberal folks and everything.
Gotta say, if there are a lot more Catholics out there I'm leaving the church j/k |
I am not sure, and you may be right for the most part, however according to one of the Mexicans at my work, (and he is perhaps the hardest, most dedicated people I have ever known) we will not have any cooks show up tomorrow. Although I am sure it will be a diverse turn-out, I do believe that many will indeed actually be hardworking immigrants. That being said, I do not refute that there will also most likely be an amount of bums.
And I think that you may have the wrong impression of the churches take on this. The Cardinal that I presume you have in mind when you make these remarks, was not portrayed by the press in a completely accurate light. (I am sure you realize that the press does have a knack for slanting stories to make them more appealing or controversial.) Basically, all the Cardinal was saying is that in the bill, or resolution that Congress was looking at, it left open the possibility that anyone giving aid to an illegal in need was committing a federal offence and could be arrested. (One of the politicians later even stated this was not the intent of the law, and was not what they meant when they put it together.) He was just stating that the Church could not agree with this, and that if it went through, that he would tell his priests that if this passed, they would have to continue their duties of charity and help, even if it meant getting arrested. Also, the bishops are not calling necessarily for open boarders or anything, but simply want something that is favorable to both sides. They simply call for a fair and reasonable solution that does not harm immigrants by putting them through unfair and unreasonable legal processes, that doesn't split their families apart, that maintains their human dignity, and that protects them, as well as us.
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Republican_Man
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| Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:53 pm |
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This I got from O'Reilly. He doesn't spin. And he's a Catholic.
This I also got from Hannity. I trust him. And he's a Catholic.
His words I also heard for myself. And I'm a Catholic.
I know all about Mahoney and I do know the argument of the church that it would hurt the Church for helping illegals with reconciliation, etc. And that I agree with.
However, he has been one of the MANY Catholics leading the charge for legalization and the like, and THAT is what I'm opposed to. They oppose almost every harsh measure on illegal immigration, and I couldn't disagree with my Church more.
That being said, the illegals and Mexicans aren't the ones I'm talking about. I'm talking about any white person or black person taking part in this. It makes you wonder if they have jobs or who they are working for.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
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| Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:01 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | This I got from O'Reilly. He doesn't spin. And he's a Catholic.
This I also got from Hannity. I trust him. And he's a Catholic.
His words I also heard for myself. And I'm a Catholic.
I know all about Mahoney and I do know the argument of the church that it would hurt the Church for helping illegals with reconciliation, etc. And that I agree with.
However, he has been one of the MANY Catholics leading the charge for legalization and the like, and THAT is what I'm opposed to. They oppose almost every harsh measure on illegal immigration, and I couldn't disagree with my Church more.
That being said, the illegals and Mexicans aren't the ones I'm talking about. I'm talking about any white person or black person taking part in this. It makes you wonder if they have jobs or who they are working for. |
They may be opposed to ones that you consider 'harsh', and if that is the case, then I won't persue this any farther, I just felt that in general, the situation deserved some clarification. What you see as harsh, I see as a possible threat the illegal or Mexican families, or as unneccesary punishment on those who have already paid a high price to be here. I did not intend to challenge your views on those matters or your opinions, but simply to clarify what many mainstream media outlets slanted.  
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Founder
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| Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:06 pm |
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| Quote: | | I'm not a racist, but some of the things I've noticed of late are slowly turning me in that direction, as much as I don't want to admit or accept or anything like that. |
I didn't want to post in WN, but I had to when I saw that. That is one of the most disturbing things I've ever heard you say. Just because a group of people are doing something you dislike, you're going to turn into a racist? What about the minority immigrants who do not support this boycott? You going to hate them too or simply be a selective racist? How about we don't look at these people as minority immigrants, but simply PEOPLE doing things you don't like? Might be better....
Anyways, I personally don't mind them doing this. I'm not against the Bill that was passed. I thought it was fair to both sides. Apparently, a lot of people don't like it. I'm not going to be joining my brothers and sisters on this boycott though, because school is far too important to me. But I shall be VERY quiet in class!
I also, don't see why its bad the Catholic Church is supporting them. Its times like these that makes me proud to be Catholic. The Church is doing everything they can for them. Not to mention, a large amount of Hispanics ARE Catholics. They're simply trying to help them. I think Puck was right on the money about the intentions of the Church.
I'm curious as to the outrage of the national anthem being sung in Spanish. Why do people dislike this?
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Republican_Man
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| Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:06 pm |
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I don't pay attention to the mainstream media
I also disagree with you entirely on what the Catholic church is saying. They are against virtually ANY border enforcement regulation increases and are for legalization, to put it short.
Look, I'm all for giving the workers here guest worker permits and making it easier to come legally. But you have to secure our border first. It is absolutely imparative, and our Church is taking the entire position that is wrong, plain and simple, and almost makes me want to convert, because this is irritating me so much.
We need to secure our borders, plain and simple. That is absolutely necessary. THEN we open it up for a guest worker program for those already here illegally, as there will be far less immigration flow, and crack down, in the process of securing our borders, on businesses hiring illegals, which the Catholic church is also against.
I've even watched interviews on FOX with Catholic priests and whatnot saying exactly what I'm saying the church's position is, so I know what their position is, and it's not a distortion of the "mainstream media" to say that they support, for all intents and purposes, illegal immigration. And there is a key word in that term. Illegal.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Republican_Man
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| Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:14 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | Quote: | | I'm not a racist, but some of the things I've noticed of late are slowly turning me in that direction, as much as I don't want to admit or accept or anything like that. |
I didn't want to post in WN, but I had to when I saw that. That is one of the most disturbing things I've ever heard you say. Just because a group of people are doing something you dislike, you're going to turn into a racist? What about the minority immigrants who do not support this boycott? You going to hate them too or simply be a selective racist? How about we don't look at these people as minority immigrants, but simply PEOPLE doing things you don't like? Might be better....
Anyways, I personally don't mind them doing this. I'm not against the Bill that was passed. I thought it was fair to both sides. Apparently, a lot of people don't like it. I'm not going to be joining my brothers and sisters on this boycott though, because school is far too important to me. But I shall be VERY quiet in class!
I also, don't see why its bad the Catholic Church is supporting them. Its times like these that makes me proud to be Catholic. The Church is doing everything they can for them. Not to mention, a large amount of Hispanics ARE Catholics. They're simply trying to help them. I think Puck was right on the money about the intentions of the Church.
I'm curious as to the outrage of the national anthem being sung in Spanish. Why do people dislike this? |
Well, the racism thing was a little over-the-edge and not actually my position. I don't hate you, nor do I hate any other Hispanics that I know. My point was simply to say that they are making a very bad impression about the Latino population, and I'm getting very angry at these activities.
Fine, I know you're a Cuban. I don't dislike you for that. I happen to like you, actually I also know that you're going to school to become an immigration lawyer. That's fine and respectable. I also know that you support illegal immigration, basically. That is a position that I entirely disagree with, and the method that more and more people are going about supporting illegal immigration is just turning me off further to their cause and making me angry at an entire population in a way that I really shouldn't, and don't want to be. And I don't hate them, it's just very much anger at those who are partaking in this activity--ESPECIALLY those acting as proponents for skipping school in protest.
Also, there has yet to be a bill passed by the Senate, actually. That compromise was broken before the Easter Recess, thank God.
I think it's bad that the Catholic church is going on this crusade for illegal immigrants because it's just that--supporting illegal behavior. I understand some of their reasons for it, but being against virtually any measure towards securing our borders and whatnot? That goes too far, and I'm tired of it.
Again, I am FOR a guest worker program. I understand the reasons for most of them wanting to come here, and I don't dispute that at all. But before that we HAVE to secure our borders, and our Church just isn't accepting that.
Here's another reason to secure our borders: Drugs have been legalized in Mexico. Cocaine, Heroine, LSD, Extasy, and one or two others. Yes, minor amounts, and yes, selling is illegal--but possession isn't.
This is going to make it even EASIER for drug cartels to operate and get in the US and further control Mexico. That is DANGEROUS and isn't helping either side. And it's more reason to secure our borders NOW.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Lord Borg
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| Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:16 pm |
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They may be illegal, points are given there, and yes, it needs to be dealt with, yes thier wrong for doing things like this, but *shrugs* I guess I dunno what to say really. I'm certainly not going to hate these PEOPLE (come on, their humans, using the term "race" sounds so derogatory when its one human againts another...) for simiply wanting a better life.
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Republican_Man
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| Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:20 pm |
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Well, as I just said, that racism thing was over the line and not my actual position. See my last post for that.
Otherwise, I'll reiterate my solid position for some time: I do NOT hate illegals for wanting a better life. I don't hate them at all. And I understand their reasons for coming here, and would do the same were I in their position.
But we need to do something about it, and this method of pushing their agenda forward is not helping and is just dumb, wrong, and all that. And it hurts their cause and other Hispanic people (not a race, actually) overall.
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Founder
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| Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:22 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | Well, the racism thing was a little over-the-edge and not actually my position. I don't hate you, nor do I hate any other Hispanics that I know. My point was simply to say that they are making a very bad impression about the Latino population, and I'm getting very angry at these activities.
Fine, I know you're a Cuban. I don't dislike you for that. I happen to like you, actually I also know that you're going to school to become an immigration lawyer. That's fine and respectable. I also know that you support illegal immigration, basically. That is a position that I entirely disagree with, and the method that more and more people are going about supporting illegal immigration is just turning me off further to their cause and making me angry at an entire population in a way that I really shouldn't, and don't want to be. And I don't hate them, it's just very much anger at those who are partaking in this activity--ESPECIALLY those acting as proponents for skipping school in protest.
Also, there has yet to be a bill passed by the Senate, actually. That compromise was broken before the Easter Recess, thank God.
I think it's bad that the Catholic church is going on this crusade for illegal immigrants because it's just that--supporting illegal behavior. I understand some of their reasons for it, but being against virtually any measure towards securing our borders and whatnot? That goes too far, and I'm tired of it.
Again, I am FOR a guest worker program. I understand the reasons for most of them wanting to come here, and I don't dispute that at all. But before that we HAVE to secure our borders, and our Church just isn't accepting that.
Here's another reason to secure our borders: Drugs have been legalized in Mexico. Cocaine, Heroine, LSD, Extasy, and one or two others. Yes, minor amounts, and yes, selling is illegal--but possession isn't.
This is going to make it even EASIER for drug cartels to operate and get in the US and further control Mexico. That is DANGEROUS and isn't helping either side. And it's more reason to secure our borders NOW. |
A 'little over the edge"?
First of all, I do not support illegal immigration. Just because I don't want to go on some illegal immigrant purge like others do, does not mean I support open borders.
Second of all, not all of these people are Latino. Nor are all illegal immigrants Latino. Many are Asian actually and I'm sure they will join the march. Just because a group of people are making a bad impression, to you at least, is absolutely no excuse to hate an entire race.
Now you want to convert from Catholism? Because you disagree on them defending these people? I thought we were Catholics because we loved Jesus Christ, not because of the politics of those who teach us about Him. Also? This is NOT a crusade and that is a word that should not be used lightly.
The bill hasn't passed? That was stupid of them. They should have and all of these problems wouldn't be occuring.
I agree that our borders should be secured. Despite popular belief...
We should help to make it easier for them to become Americans. Its far too difficult to. Especially since 9/11.
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Lord Borg
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| Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:26 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | Well, the racism thing was a little over-the-edge and not actually my position. I don't hate you, nor do I hate any other Hispanics that I know. My point was simply to say that they are making a very bad impression about the Latino population, and I'm getting very angry at these activities.
Fine, I know you're a Cuban. I don't dislike you for that. I happen to like you, actually I also know that you're going to school to become an immigration lawyer. That's fine and respectable. I also know that you support illegal immigration, basically. That is a position that I entirely disagree with, and the method that more and more people are going about supporting illegal immigration is just turning me off further to their cause and making me angry at an entire population in a way that I really shouldn't, and don't want to be. And I don't hate them, it's just very much anger at those who are partaking in this activity--ESPECIALLY those acting as proponents for skipping school in protest.
Also, there has yet to be a bill passed by the Senate, actually. That compromise was broken before the Easter Recess, thank God.
I think it's bad that the Catholic church is going on this crusade for illegal immigrants because it's just that--supporting illegal behavior. I understand some of their reasons for it, but being against virtually any measure towards securing our borders and whatnot? That goes too far, and I'm tired of it.
Again, I am FOR a guest worker program. I understand the reasons for most of them wanting to come here, and I don't dispute that at all. But before that we HAVE to secure our borders, and our Church just isn't accepting that.
Here's another reason to secure our borders: Drugs have been legalized in Mexico. Cocaine, Heroine, LSD, Extasy, and one or two others. Yes, minor amounts, and yes, selling is illegal--but possession isn't.
This is going to make it even EASIER for drug cartels to operate and get in the US and further control Mexico. That is DANGEROUS and isn't helping either side. And it's more reason to secure our borders NOW. |
A 'little over the edge"?
First of all, I do not support illegal immigration. Just because I don't want to go on some illegal immigrant purge like others do, does not mean I support open borders.
Second of all, not all of these people are Latino. Nor are all illegal immigrants Latino. Many are Asian actually and I'm sure they will join the march. Just because a group of people are making a bad impression, to you at least, is absolutely no excuse to hate an entire race.
Now you want to convert from Catholism? Because you disagree on them defending these people? I thought we were Catholics because we loved Jesus Christ, not because of the politics of those who teach us about Him. Also? This is NOT a crusade and that is a word that should not be used lightly.
The bill hasn't passed? That was stupid of them. They should have and all of these problems wouldn't be occuring.
I agree that our borders should be secured. Despite popular belief...
We should help to make it easier for them to become Americans. Its far too difficult to. Especially since 9/11. |
I agree with you, Andy. To become an American is much to hard, now, no, we dont want it to be like, something a monkey could do, but it really needs to be an easier process
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:38 pm |
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Okay, maybe not a little over the edge. It was wrong, stupid, incensitive, mean, and all that junk, and I apologize for that comment. I should not have made it, and I retract that statement on the grounds that I do not hate the Latino population. I am merely frustrated with a growing amount of them who are doing things like this; I am also furious at a minority in New Mexico who have been calling, essentially, for revolution to "take back" that land for their homecountry. I do recognize, however, that that is a SMALL minority of the population, but it sometimes seems to be growing.
I'm also mad at the fact that at many of these protests they're buying American flags for show and then when they leave they're throwing them out in the trash, most of them. Dispicable (albeit, I do recognize, those protestors were a small minority of Hispanics).
That being said, you're misinterpreting what I've been saying. I NEVER said that I would convert, but that I'm so angry with their position right now that I feel as though I am on the verge of doing so, though I never would. My entire family's Catholic (pretty much). It would be suicide to do so anyways
Next, I've read your positions overtime and it seems to me as though you are against the most effective members towards halting illegal immigration at the border, such as a wall or the National Guard. What, exactly, would you suggest we do down there?
Next, correct. According to Special Agent John Slagle, "there are so many [Other Than Mexicans] that there is now a special designation for those that might pose a threat. They call them SIAs, or Special Interest Aliens."
These people include Chinese, Chileans, Pakistanis, and the like. So, yes, it's not only Mexicans, but they're the majority, and they're the ones who have been out there protesting big-time in recent days.
After that, no, it wouldn't have stopped these problems. Not by far. It would only have INCREASED them, as we would be legalizing people without securing our borders. Greater problems would come in the future.
Finally, I do agree that the process needs a complete renovation. We need to first secure our borders and crack down on employers who higher illegals, and then we need to do the following:
1. Institute a guest worker program for those currently here illegally.
2. Make it easier to come here legally and to require Green Cards.
3. Work with Mexico to get them to actually HELP rebuild their economy 
4. Fix up the process so that it is more fair for all and perhaps eventually let those here illegally, at a point, obtain citizenship.
5. Work on fixing up the porous(sp?) problem at the Canadian border as well.
And as we rework the system we should keep the proper security precautions while making it easier to enter this country legally. Let's try to expedite the process and not make people wait 10 to 20 years to come here, agreed?
That's all fair game. I want to help Mexico to improve, believe me. But they're not going to do it until there's the incentive to, and it will help Mexico in the long-run.
I hope this clears up my position and decreases the animosity a bit (I'm also stressed about my first AP test ever, btw).
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:47 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: |
1. Institute a guest worker program for those currently here illegally.
2. Make it easier to come here legally and to require Green Cards.
3. Work with Mexico to get them to actually HELP rebuild their economy
4. Fix up the process so that it is more fair for all and perhaps eventually let those here illegally, at a point, obtain citizenship.
5. Work on fixing up the porous(sp?) problem at the Canadian border as well.
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1. No, just make it easier to come here legaly, gosh, the implications!
2. Yeah, definitly
3. yeah, sure that would show that we're the nice people we say we are.
4. see number 1
5. Yeah, if it's a problem, then we have to do it there to.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:48 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | Okay, maybe not a little over the edge. It was wrong, stupid, incensitive, mean, and all that junk, and I apologize for that comment. I should not have made it, and I retract that statement on the grounds that I do not hate the Latino population. I am merely frustrated with a growing amount of them who are doing things like this; I am also furious at a minority in New Mexico who have been calling, essentially, for revolution to "take back" that land for their homecountry. I do recognize, however, that that is a SMALL minority of the population, but it sometimes seems to be growing.
I'm also mad at the fact that at many of these protests they're buying American flags for show and then when they leave they're throwing them out in the trash, most of them. Dispicable (albeit, I do recognize, those protestors were a small minority of Hispanics).
Understood, and undertandable.
That being said, you're misinterpreting what I've been saying. I NEVER said that I would convert, but that I'm so angry with their position right now that I feel as though I am on the verge of doing so, though I never would. My entire family's Catholic (pretty much). It would be suicide to do so anyways
Ah.
Next, I've read your positions overtime and it seems to me as though you are against the most effective members towards halting illegal immigration at the border, such as a wall or the National Guard. What, exactly, would you suggest we do down there?
I never said anything about stopping the wall or the national guard. I simply said that the minutemen people at the border were idiots. That doesn't mean I support an open border. Although a wall ain't going to work. National Guard might though.
Next, correct. According to Special Agent John Slagle, "there are so many [Other Than Mexicans] that there is now a special designation for those that might pose a threat. They call them SIAs, or Special Interest Aliens."
These people include Chinese, Chileans, Pakistanis, and the like. So, yes, it's not only Mexicans, but they're the majority, and they're the ones who have been out there protesting big-time in recent days.
They're the majority cause their country is attached to ours, unlike those others you listed. No other reason.
After that, no, it wouldn't have stopped these problems. Not by far. It would only have INCREASED them, as we would be legalizing people without securing our borders. Greater problems would come in the future.
It did call for securing the border. I don't remember anywhere on the bill saying that it would leave the border open.
Finally, I do agree that the process needs a complete renovation. We need to first secure our borders and crack down on employers who higher illegals, and then we need to do the following:
1. Institute a guest worker program for those currently here illegally.
2. Make it easier to come here legally and to require Green Cards.
3. Work with Mexico to get them to actually HELP rebuild their economy
4. Fix up the process so that it is more fair for all and perhaps eventually let those here illegally, at a point, obtain citizenship.
5. Work on fixing up the porous(sp?) problem at the Canadian border as well.
And as we rework the system we should keep the proper security precautions while making it easier to enter this country legally. Let's try to expedite the process and not make people wait 10 to 20 years to come here, agreed?
That's all fair game. I want to help Mexico to improve, believe me. But they're not going to do it until there's the incentive to, and it will help Mexico in the long-run.
I hope this clears up my position and decreases the animosity a bit (I'm also stressed about my first AP test ever, btw). |
Well said, well said.
There is no animosity from this end.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:48 pm |
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But Chris...Uh...those here legally are...already here? What do we do with them? Deport them all and tell them to apply from home?
| Quote: | | It did call for securing the border. I don't remember anywhere on the bill saying that it would leave the border open. |
Hardly
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:54 pm |
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I was simply pointing out that if you made it easier to come here legally, then there woulod be no need to have to figure out a fair programs for illegals, because to get here easier legaly, you wouldnt need to do it illegaly
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:56 pm |
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Well, your point didn't fit because I wasn't talking about future potential illegals there. I was talking, with regards to guest workers, about those already here. If we have the border shut down and make it easier to come illegally we won't have to worry about the future in terms of people being in this country illegally.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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