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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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 Sat Apr 08, 2006 1:39 am Woman Tried for Severing Baby's Arms Found Not Guilty By Ins |
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| Foxnews.com wrote: | Woman Tried for Severing Baby's Arms Found Not Guilty By Insanity
McKINNEY, Texas � A woman accused of cutting off her 10-month-old daughter's arms and leaving the baby in her crib to die was found not guilty by reason of insanity at a retrial Friday.
Dena Schlosser, 38, will be sent to a state mental hospital for 30 days. She could then be released if she's deemed not to be a threat to herself or others.
Police arrested Schlosser in 2004 after she told a 911 operator she had severed her baby's arms. Officers found the baby, Margaret, near death and Schlosser covered in blood, holding a knife and listening to a hymn.
At her first trial, the jury deadlocked on the murder charge in February, with 10 of the 12 jurors saying Schlosser was insane. The deadlock forced a mistrial, and the two sides agreed last week to have Judge Chris Oldner decide the case.
Defense attorneys told the judge last week that Schlosser had a brain tumor that could have caused hallucinations before the killing � an argument not heard by the jury because the tumor hadn't been confirmed by a neurologist until weeks later.
Oldner issued the verdict without elaboration Friday morning.
Schlosser was quiet as bailiffs led her away.
Defense attorney David Haynes said she had hoped for hospitalization because "she feels it is her best chance to get better."
"We have a just verdict in a just case, but yes, it is bittersweet," he said.
Prosecutor Curtis Howard said he thought that Schlosser was guilty and that there wasn't enough evidence to prove insanity. He said the fact she told her husband afterward that she had "killed the baby" proved she knew what she was doing.
"This is a case that could have gone both ways; we knew that," Howard said.
The case against Schlosser had hinged on whether she had severe mental problems that kept her from knowing her actions were wrong.
Several psychiatrists had testified that Schlosser lost touch with reality, suffered severe mood swings and experienced religious hallucinations and delusions. One doctor said she told him she wanted to cut off her baby's arms and her own limbs and head and give them God.
The defense faulted Schlosser's husband for not getting her adequate mental health treatment and also blamed her preacher, Doyle Davidson, who believes only God can cure mental illness.
The state argued the defense was trying to deflect responsibility from Schlosser. Prosecutors presented a methodical case, focusing on possible inconsistencies and behaviors that might indicate she knew that killing her baby was wrong.
After Schlosser spends 30 days in the hospital, the staff there will report on her mental health, and a judge will decide whether to recommit her. If that happens, she would be reevaluated after six months, and then each year after that.
"My own expectation is that she will remain at the hospital for many, many years," Haynes said.
Bob Nicholas, who helped raised Schlosser and was her only relative in court Friday, called the verdict the best possible scenario.
"This whole situation with Dena was a tragedy," Nicholas said. "We've got the loss of Maggie, who never reached her first birthday. We've got two little girls coping with the loss of their sister and of a loving, caring mother."
Schlosser's husband, John Schlosser, has filed for divorce and has custody of the couple's two other daughters.
Schlosser is one of three Texas women to seek the insanity defense in recent high-profile cases after the deaths of their children.
Jurors rejected the insanity defense in 2002 for Andrea Yates, the Houston mother who confessed to killing her five children by drowning them in the family bathtub. She will again use the insanity defense in her June retrial.
In 2004 in East Texas, Deanna Laney was acquitted by reason of insanity after she was accused of stoning to death her 8-year-old and 6-year-old sons. |
Well, justices has not been served. This woman is SICK. *sighs* and she gets off. Whats wrong with the justice system now a days?
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:38 am |
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She needs to be put away for life or give death penalty. At least they need to lock her up for life.
This is sad and makes me angry that any mother could do this. Sick!
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:18 am |
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Arhhh no not the death penalty lol. Life inprisonment yes.
Insane would be my vote too.
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Sat Apr 08, 2006 8:40 am |
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Isn't the real tragedy that steps were not taken to keep this from happening in the first place? I get so tired of hearing these stories, where someone snaps and commits some atrocity, and the people in their life all say, "I knew something wasn't right", etc. The doctor who heard this woman say she wanted to dismember her baby should have put her under observation right then and there.
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"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Sat Apr 08, 2006 9:18 am |
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| webtaz99 wrote: | | Isn't the real tragedy that steps were not taken to keep this from happening in the first place? I get so tired of hearing these stories, where someone snaps and commits some atrocity, and the people in their life all say, "I knew something wasn't right", etc. The doctor who heard this woman say she wanted to dismember her baby should have put her under observation right then and there. |
Agreed. So many tragedies like this are actually preventable, it really is sad. Perhaps the doctor who overheard her was afraid of getting sued or something - it's a lame excuse, but it could have made sense to him at the time...
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Brightstar82
Rear Admiral
Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Posts: 4394
Location: A Borg Cube....Where Else?
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| Sat Apr 08, 2006 3:19 pm |
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omg thats so so horrible. That woman needs to be locked up for eternity. That poor baby is now gonna go through life with no arms.   
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Sun Apr 09, 2006 12:09 am |
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| TrekkieMage wrote: | | webtaz99 wrote: | | Isn't the real tragedy that steps were not taken to keep this from happening in the first place? I get so tired of hearing these stories, where someone snaps and commits some atrocity, and the people in their life all say, "I knew something wasn't right", etc. The doctor who heard this woman say she wanted to dismember her baby should have put her under observation right then and there. |
Agreed. So many tragedies like this are actually preventable, it really is sad. Perhaps the doctor who overheard her was afraid of getting sued or something - it's a lame excuse, but it could have made sense to him at the time... |
Perhaps, but think about how many insane people a doctor probably deal with each year. It's that one in a few thousand that actually does it.
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magenta
Commander
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 404
Location: AUSTRALIA
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| Sun Apr 09, 2006 8:26 am |
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Brightstar the baby died!Massive blood loss I expect!And in a hell of a lot of pain and agony!
This is where the Death Penalty should be enforced!
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Sun Apr 09, 2006 12:46 pm |
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| PrankishSmart wrote: | | TrekkieMage wrote: | | webtaz99 wrote: | | Isn't the real tragedy that steps were not taken to keep this from happening in the first place? I get so tired of hearing these stories, where someone snaps and commits some atrocity, and the people in their life all say, "I knew something wasn't right", etc. The doctor who heard this woman say she wanted to dismember her baby should have put her under observation right then and there. |
Agreed. So many tragedies like this are actually preventable, it really is sad. Perhaps the doctor who overheard her was afraid of getting sued or something - it's a lame excuse, but it could have made sense to him at the time... |
Perhaps, but think about how many insane people a doctor probably deal with each year. It's that one in a few thousand that actually does it. |
I see what you are saying, but I'm talking about people who go beyond just being mentally ill. I'm talking about people who are crazy enough that many people who know them say something like "Someday they're gonna hurt someone."
It's true that every now and then someone undergoes an extraordinary incident which makes them "snap", but the vast majority of the time when someone "snaps", they have been under some duress for a long time, and some incident merely pushes them over the edge. The cases are not parallel.
This lady didn't say she was Joan D'Arc or that she remembered her prior life. She said she wanted to dismember herself and her child. And I'm not saying she should have been locked up just for saying that, but she should have undergone a more serious diagnosis. Unfortunately our "system" usually ignores poeple until they threaten to harm themselves or someone else, and that's usually way too late.
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"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Sun Apr 09, 2006 4:43 pm |
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| magenta wrote: | | This is where the Death Penalty should be enforced! |
So you're saying we should kill people who aren't responsible for their own actions?
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Sun Apr 09, 2006 4:52 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | magenta wrote: | | This is where the Death Penalty should be enforced! |
So you're saying we should kill people who aren't responsible for their own actions? |
Well, maybe, just maybe you make a point. But 30 days in an institution? thats not enough if shes not found a threat to her self or others she gets released....
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Sun Apr 09, 2006 4:57 pm |
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Well, I'm not a psychologist, so I'm not sure how long her treatment should take place for, or how serious her condition is. However, if she has been diagnosed as insane, then she shouldn't be killed. Young children have accidentally killed people in the past, so should we also kill them? It's the same thing- they aren't responsible.
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Sun Apr 09, 2006 5:23 pm |
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Ok, but hows this, someone will cut your arms off, then get called insane and 30 days later is called sane and is released from the insiution, no punishment at all
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teya
Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 423
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| Sun Apr 09, 2006 5:49 pm |
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^ I suppose it depends upon whether you believe that justice is served by rehabilitation or by vengeance.
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Resume your disorder.
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Lord Borg
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Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Sun Apr 09, 2006 5:58 pm |
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Im not saying vengence, Im saying its pretty sucky that a baby died from having his arms cut off and all that may happen is 30 days in a mental institution
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teya
Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 423
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| Sun Apr 09, 2006 6:44 pm |
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^ So you want her to pay for her crime. That's called vengeance.
Rehabilitation is when she's locked up till she's deemed not a threat to herself or others, then let out.
There's nothing wrong with a desire for vengeance. It's human.
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Resume your disorder.
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Sun Apr 09, 2006 7:07 pm |
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How is it justice when she gets 30 days at least, (Possibly more if they deem her nuts) and then let back out? I wouldnt call it Vengeance, in this country, you do a crime, you pay for it
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Sun Apr 09, 2006 7:41 pm |
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I think it's clear that she'll be spending years institutionalized. It's standard procedure for a case to be reviewed thirty days after the defendant is found guilty by insanity. It's just the mandatory minimum.
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magenta
Commander
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 404
Location: AUSTRALIA
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| Sun Apr 09, 2006 7:43 pm |
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 Nobody is thinking about the pain and agony the baby suffered.By someone who is supposed to love and protect it!
Can you just imagine how she did it?With an axe,with a quick firm swing and done in an instant or slowly and painfully with a knife!The horrors that child was going through!Then left to die in absolute agony!The mother has lost the right to live!
Surely when she saw all the blood she would have come to her senses and stopped!Not to mention that the baby would of been screaming in agony!But she continued on and cut the other arm off too!
I think she deserves to die for such a crime,as a mother I would expect the death penalty for such a crime!
She could get out after her 30 days and go and have another kid to someone else!She should be sterilised as well.
Just imagine if it was your child or a niece or nephew,cousin or a child you know and have met!
She deserves to die!
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Sun Apr 09, 2006 7:59 pm |
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| Magenta wrote: | | Surely when she saw all the blood she would have come to her senses and stopped! |
Oh, I didn't realize you were a psychologist. Now I'm informed. Finally, 
| Magenta wrote: | | I think she deserves to die for such a crime,as a mother I would expect the death penalty for such a crime! |
Yeah, but you're not insane (or at least that's what I'm assuming). She didn't know that what she was doing was wrong, and wasn't able to prevent herself from doing it.
| Quote: | | She could get out after her 30 days and go and have another kid to someone else! |
Everytime you let somebody who has stolen something go free, you face the risk they'll steal again. Same with murder, insurance fraud, and any other crime you can think of. You don't assume things in a just society.
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magenta
Commander
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 404
Location: AUSTRALIA
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| Sun Apr 09, 2006 10:11 pm |
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Well I am 36yrs old and the mother of a 3yr old and a 5yr old.I have been a step mother to a 13yr old and 16yr old since they were 4 and 7yrs old.And if you have experienced giving birth to a child and been a mother or father at some point.Your thinking might be different!
The thought of one of my kids going through that agony just horrifies me!
So if she goes out and harms another innocent child,its just the way society is,and that there is no guarantees that she will do it again?Do we just release her and 'see' if she does it again?Ooops we should have locked her up for good,or put her to death when we had the chance.Thats life I guess!
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Admiral Dani�l
Dutch Admiral
Joined: 06 Sep 2005
Posts: 2177
Location: Borg Cube 31572 - Join us now!
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| Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:08 am |
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How sad ;( I can't understand people do this horrible thing, the baby must have suffered so much it died ;(
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Mon Apr 10, 2006 4:45 am |
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Magenta I can't understand how people like you and leo feel so strongly supporting the death penalty but want to outlaw suicide and abortions. Us Aussies have coped quite well without the death penalty for closer to half a century. Equal (or more) justice can be served by life inprisonment. If the mother didn't have the right to murder in the first place, who has the right to murder them and what makes the descisions of a judge over life or death correct. There are too many questions regarding the issue and I don't think your understanding it deeply enough.
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Mon Apr 10, 2006 4:46 am |
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| webtaz99 wrote: | | PrankishSmart wrote: | | TrekkieMage wrote: | | webtaz99 wrote: | | Isn't the real tragedy that steps were not taken to keep this from happening in the first place? I get so tired of hearing these stories, where someone snaps and commits some atrocity, and the people in their life all say, "I knew something wasn't right", etc. The doctor who heard this woman say she wanted to dismember her baby should have put her under observation right then and there. |
Agreed. So many tragedies like this are actually preventable, it really is sad. Perhaps the doctor who overheard her was afraid of getting sued or something - it's a lame excuse, but it could have made sense to him at the time... |
Perhaps, but think about how many insane people a doctor probably deal with each year. It's that one in a few thousand that actually does it. |
I see what you are saying, but I'm talking about people who go beyond just being mentally ill. I'm talking about people who are crazy enough that many people who know them say something like "Someday they're gonna hurt someone."
It's true that every now and then someone undergoes an extraordinary incident which makes them "snap", but the vast majority of the time when someone "snaps", they have been under some duress for a long time, and some incident merely pushes them over the edge. The cases are not parallel.
This lady didn't say she was Joan D'Arc or that she remembered her prior life. She said she wanted to dismember herself and her child. And I'm not saying she should have been locked up just for saying that, but she should have undergone a more serious diagnosis. Unfortunately our "system" usually ignores poeple until they threaten to harm themselves or someone else, and that's usually way too late. |
Excellent points & I can agree with that.
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Mon Apr 10, 2006 5:49 am |
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Why I support the death penalty? Because prison don't teach killers a lesson. In prison, they have privilages like tv and other stuff. Need to go back to the old days of doing things. Making the prisoners work hard. Abortions prankishsmart is not the topic of this matter.
And you didn't read what I said above either. I said life in prison or death penalty. Which word did I use first. 
don't bring another topic into this one. Abortions is another topic. Which I done said all I am gonna say on abortions.
Oh by the way Prankishsmart, my name ain't Leo. 
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