| Homosexuality, etc..-Wrong? |
| No, it's not wrong. It's abnormal, but not wrong necessarily |
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13% |
[ 17 ] |
| Not wrong, just weird but I don't mind it |
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22% |
[ 28 ] |
| Yes, it is WRONG! Die HOMOs, DIE! |
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3% |
[ 4 ] |
| I believe it is wrong for religious reasons. |
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17% |
[ 22 ] |
| It's just wrong, that's all there is to say. |
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8% |
[ 11 ] |
| I'm gay-GAY PRIDE! |
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18% |
[ 23 ] |
| Its not wrong or abnormal |
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16% |
[ 21 ] |
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| Total Votes : 126 |
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| Author |
Message |
stroppy
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 80
Location: Oz
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 Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:47 am |
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| Puck wrote: | Stroppy, here are several things that you should take under consideration:
A. Learn how to properly quote people.
B. Perhaps you should re-read the rules, that way you would know that backseat modding is against them.
C. If you have a problem with a user, PM a mod.
D. Just because it is not posted in this topic does not mean that lionhead has not been warned for things he may have posted. Either way, it's none of your business whether he has been warned or not. |
Hey pal, what are you talking about?...Joey asked, I answered- quid pro quo. I have no idea what you mean about "back-seat modding"... I pointed out where I think some of what he and others said to be a bit strong...he asked me to do this. I have nothing against the person...just some of the things he said. I keep repeating this and some of you keep harping back on the same thing. Quite frankly I'm astounded at this. Down here some of us would use the colloquialism "flogging a dead horse"...look it up.
As far as properly quoting I suggest you read his posts over...I quoted verbatim and I read through all the posts back to 2004. This whole debacle would be funny if what we were discussing wasn't quite so serious. It would have made great fodder for my old English clear-thinking classes in the past.
As to whether or not he's been warned...I haven't seen any evidence of it and I don't care whether he was or not-that's an issue for the mods, not me....their business. I don't want to see the guy hurt, suspended or banned- what do you take me for? I'm not doing this for fun, I'm doing this because I believe in what I'm saying just as I'm sure that Joey believes what he is saying. I just meant that I thought at some stage there would have been a conciliatory post from a mod... No criticism intended here...just stating what I thought. Are you happy now??? Please don't presume to read intent into my posts thanks.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:53 am |
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| stroppy wrote: | Hey pal, what are you talking about?...Joey asked, I answered- quid pro quo. I have no idea what you mean about "back-seat modding"... I pointed out where I think some of what he and others said to be a bit strong...he asked me to do this. I have nothing against the person...just some of the things he said. I keep repeating this and some of you keep harping back on the same thing. Quite frankly I'm astounded at this. Down here some of us would use the colloquialism "flogging a dead horse"...look it up.
As far as properly quoting I suggest you read his posts over...I quoted verbatim and I read through all the posts back to 2004. This whole debacle would be funny if what we were discussing wasn't quite so serious. It would have made great fodder for my old English clear-thinking classes in the past.
As to whether or not he's been warned...I haven't seen any evidence of it and I don't care whther he was or not. I don't want to see the guy hurt, suspended or banned- what do you take me for? I'm not doing this for fun, I'm doing this because I believe in what I'm saying just as I'm sure that Joey believes what he is saying. I just meant that I thought at some stage there would have been a conciliatory post from a mod... No criticism intended here...just stating what I thought. Are you happy now??? Please don't presume to read intent into my posts thanks. |
I could ask the same of you. As others have pointed out, not everyone who dislikes the Gay lifestyle is suddenly a Gay basher. I follow the right-wing philosophy that you oh so hate. It is my belief. I definitly do not avocate hurting Gays in anyway, but I am entitled to disgreeing with it.
See that is one my biggest griefs with the whole homosexuality thing. The pro-Gay people flip out when someone says they disagree with it. Because the only lifestyle they want is either agree with it or you're homophobe. Thats hypocritical. I thought the argument was "There are different lifestyles around the world."? To be fair, I found this more often in the straight pro-Gay people. I've seen Gay people find their...zeal a little strange. It's good to want to help Gays, but to become argumentive and hostile because people don't like it, solves absolutely nothing.
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stroppy
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 80
Location: Oz
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| Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:57 am |
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Founder:
This is a fair point, which I will concede to you. Doesn't change my opinion, or yours...but you make a fair and reasoned argument.
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lionhead
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)
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| Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:32 am |
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| stroppy wrote: | Well Joey, I'm going to give you the most extreme thing I have seen in this thread from 2 years ago:
"I guess i'll grace ya'll once more with a post
I think homo'ing is gross and sinful a freakin abomanation"(sic)
(This is not, thankfully, one of yours)
These are... Here's a selection:
"...Its just wrong, its should be stopped because its not natural. But they don't have too die or anything. Its disgusting too (although lesbians are a different case, Bi-seksual women too.).
Thinking its not wrong is wrong so that why there isn't such an option. you are really dumb (tsk, tsk...personal attack Joey) too think Homosexuality isn't wrong.
No, you are one way but some people are very confused and THINK they are Gay, which is stupid. And now a days they get Encouraged by lots of people too do what they pleased. Indoing so we have created a world with people moving away from eachother more every day. Thats why i Hate Homo Sexuals, they think they are a whole different race.
Gay men are Extreme, Wierd, Disgusting. They have a whole different way of live, they think they do not belong in society, they think they being gay is normal and everybody who has the slightest thought should go and be Gay, they are Stupid and confused and they are surely not a good example too children...... Lesbians are different, of course there are some that are like Most gay but most lesbians are much less extreme, they do not encourage people too be Gay, they tend too be less open about it, they are not turning their backs on Straight women or men, they do feel good in Normal society.
everybody has too change, I know i did. If i didn't i would be a closed up, greedy, racist son of a b*tch. People helped me too change, even when i didn't want it and rejected every efford.
i think the same thing should be done too Gay people, help them sort things out. and i encourage THAT. (This would go down really well here, Joey)
Shame isn't invented by the way you morron, (another personal attack, Joey) Shame is a normal emotion, created over the evolution of humans. and its surely not nonsense, if nobody would give into their shame the world wouldn't be as it was today, it would have been a very dark and warweary place.
Now i wonder why that is? Oh, right. because being straight is normal and being Gay isn't! If you are gay and don't accept people being straight then you really need too see a psychiatrist(sp?). Man, that has got too be the most idiotic response ever. (Another personal attack...)
Thank you..Dipsh*t! (aw, i'm so sad, uhm bad) (Another personal attack...)
I think you should re-read the forum rules about personal attacks.
I am surprised the mods didn't step in earlier...no matter. Joey you have been posting on this topic for nearly two years. You seem to have an inordinate (extreme) hatred of homosexuality. I can't help but wonder what early life experiences you had that made you form this opinion. Give it a rest now Joey. You've made your point...I've made my point. From reading posts you have made in other threads you seem to be a likeable-enough person. Let me continue to think this and then we can stop arguing around and around in circles. BTW Joey...where are you from? I ask this out of curiousity, not as a way of offending you. |
Alright, first of all. Most of those "personal attacks" are when i have been attcked myself, i gotten angry in this Topic before i confess to that. When i first started posting in this thread however i didn't really know much about honest debating, i didn't really respect anybodies opinion and thought that every reply on me was an attack on me. I had a different opinion about Homosexuality too.
But i have learned, i have had several warnings and a week(or something) banning from it with good reasons and i apologized for those things(i had a big fight with Founder a couple of times too)..... Maybe not specifically on this Topic but i did do it.
Now, i think its mandatory for me to point out my real Opinion about Homosexuality isn't in any of those quotes you put out. Those are just stupid remarks i made when i got mad at one point.
So since you are so good at pointing out all the bad things i have said in this topic perhaps you could find some rational explanations by me about my actual Opinion on the subject? if not i wil be happy to help.
I can't drop the matter knowing you think of me as a "Gay-Basher". I can't help but think that you think i Beat up Homosexuals and Curse at them whenever i meet them.... I don't do that at all, i'm a total diffrent person than that.
I'm from The Netherlands BTW. don't be afraid you can offend me with a question like that, i'm not cynile.
Man, there is so much you took the wrong way....
-------signature-------
Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore
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stroppy
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 80
Location: Oz
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| Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:43 am |
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You know what, I think it's great Joey that you had the guts to tell me that you have learned from your earlier experiences with posting...I admire your courage and honesty in this regard. I did not know that you had already been punished and this is quite sad...If I had known I would not have pulled out all the quotes I did. Okay. You are not a gay basher...I didn't think you were anyway. You dislike homosexuality...okay, I disagree with you but I respect your right to this opinion and the fact that you have obviously mellowed over the past couple of years. Cool...okay. Now we can move on. I have told you why I am protective of gay people's rights...same reason why I am very protective of any disadvantaged group in society. As a teacher I strongly believe that we all need to learn from history and history is full of incidents where the disrespect of one group for another can lead to dire consequences. Nice to see you are in the Netherlands. I visited there in the mid nineties. Interesting country, cosmopolitan population and a very hip capital city.
Now...peace 
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Hallibonty
Ensign, Junior Grade
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 39
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| Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:41 am |
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| stroppy wrote: |
I suppose some restriction has been placed on freedom of speech (there's been some argument in the major daily newspapers here, especially in relation to religious comparisons, etc...) however the State government is of the view that publication of more extreme views, for example:
"homosexuals are all sick in the head"
is incitement to hatred and, therefore, actionable.
I am quite sure that if you said or wrote something like:
"Homosexuality is wrong because it is against my religion but I don't hate gays" you'd be perfectly safe.
Hope this clarifys the situation here for you. |
IMO, if you say "homosexuals are all sick in the head" you're too stupid to deserve freedom of speech 
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stroppy
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 80
Location: Oz
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| Fri Mar 24, 2006 9:24 am |
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| Hallibonty wrote: | | stroppy wrote: |
I suppose some restriction has been placed on freedom of speech (there's been some argument in the major daily newspapers here, especially in relation to religious comparisons, etc...) however the State government is of the view that publication of more extreme views, for example:
"homosexuals are all sick in the head"
is incitement to hatred and, therefore, actionable.
I am quite sure that if you said or wrote something like:
"Homosexuality is wrong because it is against my religion but I don't hate gays" you'd be perfectly safe.
Hope this clarifys the situation here for you. |
IMO, if you say "homosexuals are all sick in the head" you're too stupid to deserve freedom of speech |
Have to agree but freedom of speech is important. How are you, Hallibonty?
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Hallibonty
Ensign, Junior Grade
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 39
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| Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:27 am |
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oh I'm fine, you?
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stroppy
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 80
Location: Oz
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| Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:34 am |
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| Hallibonty wrote: | | oh I'm fine, you? |
Hot and bothered...the time here is 3.32am and the temperature is still 25.4 degrees Celsius and I can't sleep!
Although I don't think anyone is going to "win" their argument in this thread at least all have become a little more reasonable, don't you think?
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lionhead
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)
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| Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:41 am |
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| stroppy wrote: | You know what, I think it's great Joey that you had the guts to tell me that you have learned from your earlier experiences with posting...I admire your courage and honesty in this regard. I did not know that you had already been punished and this is quite sad...If I had known I would not have pulled out all the quotes I did. Okay. You are not a gay basher...I didn't think you were anyway. You dislike homosexuality...okay, I disagree with you but I respect your right to this opinion and the fact that you have obviously mellowed over the past couple of years. Cool...okay. Now we can move on. I have told you why I am protective of gay people's rights...same reason why I am very protective of any disadvantaged group in society. As a teacher I strongly believe that we all need to learn from history and history is full of incidents where the disrespect of one group for another can lead to dire consequences. Nice to see you are in the Netherlands. I visited there in the mid nineties. Interesting country, cosmopolitan population and a very hip capital city.
Now...peace |
Thanks for allowing me expalin it and thanks fro yuor understand. Glad we could straighten this out socially rather then you leaving thinking we are all Right-Winged Conservatives.
-------signature-------
Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:43 am |
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Don't be too cocky, this is not about winning or loosing the debate. It is just an discussion.
This is what this board is for an discussion not to really argue over a topic.
If you gay fine, if you straight fine too. Who ever someone's sexual preference is their business and noone's else's. Everyone has a right to an opinion . But you seem like you are the only ones right and everyone else is wrong. I agree noone will agree but we are not suppose to agree on everything. We are unique human beings who have a different train of thinking.
As I said before, I believe homosexuality is a sin and wrong. But, I don't go around saying gays are crazy or hate them. If I hate the sinner, I guess I am just may as well say, I am just as bad as the sinner. I am not saying gays are bad so don't misunderstand me.
I have a friend who is gay and I love him dearly, do I agree with his life style? No, do I love him unconditionally? Yes. I met another gay person the other day. We get along just fine. People shouldn't fight or argue. People just need to just get along and love one another if you even read what I am saying. Fighting over who is right and who is wrong, will never accomplish anything but go around in circles. But, I think we are mature enough to have a discussion without arguements. If someone can't then he/she needs to take a breather. I have learnt that the hard way.
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stroppy
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 80
Location: Oz
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| Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:46 am |
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| Leo Wyatt wrote: | Don't be too cocky, this is not about winning or loosing the debate. It is just an discussion.
This is what this board is for an discussion not to really argue over a topic.
If you gay fine, if you straight fine too. Who ever someone's sexual preference is their business and noone's else's. Everyone has a right to an opinion . But you seem like you are the only ones right and everyone else is wrong. I agree noone will agree but we are not suppose to agree on everything. We are unique human beings who have a different train of thinking.
As I said before, I believe homosexuality is a sin and wrong. But, I don't go around saying gays are crazy or hate them. If I hate the sinner, I guess I am just may as well say, I am just as bad as the sinner. I am not saying gays are bad so don't misunderstand me.
I have a friend who is gay and I love him dearly, do I agree with his life style? No, do I love him unconditionally? Yes. I met another gay person the other day. We get along just fine. People shouldn't fight or argue. People just need to just get along and love one another if you even read what I am saying. Fighting over who is right and who is wrong, will never accomplish anything but go around in circles. But, I think we are mature enough to have a discussion without arguements. If someone can't then he/she needs to take a breather. I have learnt that the hard way. |
Agreed...read what I said...no one has won or lost...just agreed to disagree amicably. 
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:48 am |
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Ooh ok..
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stroppy
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 80
Location: Oz
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| Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:49 am |
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| lionhead wrote: |
Thanks for allowing me expalin it and thanks fro yuor understand. Glad we could straighten this out socially rather then you leaving thinking we are all Right-Winged Conservatives. |
That's fine Joey...if I was in Holland right now I would offer you a handshake of peace. Okay, time for all of us to move on to greener pastures.
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Cathexis
The Angel of Avalon
Joined: 26 Dec 2001
Posts: 5901
Location: ~~ Where Dreams Have No End�
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| Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:41 pm |
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Well I certainly have missed quite a lot in this thread !
I think I will simply re-post the comments I made in the World News forums...
| Quote: | OKay, speaking as a lesbian, this is what I have to say:
If I choose to have a committed relationship aka a marriage with another woman, I fail to see where the government gets off on prohibiting my right to the pursuit of happiness as outlined in the Declaration of Independence. Is that document not part of the traditions upon which this country was founded ? So are we just going to only honor SOME of those traditions, the ones that suit only OUR interests ? Or are we going to do the honorable thing and acknowledge EVERY one's right to live how they wish ? You tell me. Civil unions don't provide enough for same-sex partnerships. Period. Tradition is all very well and good for those who follow it; however, think about how many other traditions are being trampled over in the pursuit of 'progress' and 'modernization'.
Don't get me wrong, I like tradition. I have a strong Jewish background, as well as Protestant Christian....and I practice a Messianic Jewish faith, for the most part. Call me a hypocrite, but aren't we all ? We all preach what we don't practice, that's part of being human. We are all sinners and we are fallible. I don't want to get too into religion and all of that, so I'm not about to go there.
The point is, the next step after banning gay marriage would seem to be banning atheistic marriage, for how can two people 'marry' based on the traditional principles of the term when neither believe in God ?
NEXT we'll be saying that only certain TYPES of straight couples can pursue marriage under the law of the United States.
Well, I would support a civil union if it were given the same credibility as marriage; however, my own mother was married in a courthouse, not a church. So what do we say to people who choose not to marry in the traditional locale ?
Where will this end ? I tell ya, it's going to be like Nazi Germany in the next ten years if people don't start learning to live and let live.
You wanna marry, fine, but if I wanna marry....oh no, I'm not up to par with the standards of the definition of the word, therefore I'm not eligible to partake in such a 'holy' and 'sacred', and 'traditional' ceremony.
One word: Constitution.
Honestly, I could go one about this for ages, and I most likely will until someone makes a decision that meets the priorities of all who are affected by it. I happen to be one of those people, and I abhor Bush for his merciless attempt to take away my right to pursue happiness in marriage. |
Here's my latest shpeal.
I see that there have been some miscommunications, and I hope that this does not continue. Of course everyone has the right to their own opinions, and lifestyles. That's the only point I've ever really tried to make. Especially in the United States, which is supposed to be a country founded on the principles of freedom and the pursuit of happiness. Yes, I know it was also founded on the principles of Christianity, but times are changing. My own country (France) began as a strictly Catholic one, and yet, if you take a look at the stats over there....most are of the Islamic faith or aren't of any faith whatsoever. Some think that is a sad thing, others would argue that that's a consequence of the times and of progress.
Yes, homosexuality questions a core fundamental belief of how human beings should live; however, consider Martin Luther and the establishment of Protestantism...look at the Calvinists, Anabaptists. Just take a look back into history and consider the incredible reforms that have been made with regard to society and religion.
Times are changing folks, and so are people.
I say live and let live equally under the law of the countries in which we, sometimes unfortunately, subsist.
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:51 am |
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People may want to things equally but sometimes often work that way no matter how much we would want that. This issue will be an issue always.
I still stand firm on my belief. Some hate me now but some people don't read the posts well probably the ones that I am change person but any hoo.
Not to create an arguement here. I have two friends now that are gay. I don't agree with their life style cause I know it is wrong. But, I don't condmn them for it. I am constantly hanging with them like there's no tomrrow cause I possibly couldn't hate them. Heck, I even held one of their's hand in public today. I am not that bad of a person.  I am not gay but I love my friend. Love should be the key and not hate.
I treat them with respect and not any different even though I don't agree with their choice. I treat them equally but doesn't mean they have the right to marry. But, I will never bring that up to them cause it is not my place. I say don't worry about the issue and let people just live their live cause no matter how hard we try, this will always be a debate about rather it should be banned. Just go about your life and don't worry about the people who think it should be banned.
Life is too short ! Probably this will be taken the wrong way cause I never can seem to get my words out right...
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Birdy
Socialist
Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Posts: 13502
Location: Here.
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| Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:23 am |
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| Cathexis wrote: | | I say live and let live equally under the law of the countries in which we, sometimes unfortunately, subsist. |
I totally agree with that. I really like that sentence!
Well, I think I've said enough about this subject, and as always with this kinda subjects, we're talking in circles.
Oh, and one more thing; Some people say that we Dutch are very open-minded about stuff like homosexuality and all those things, but we're faaaar from it sometimes.
My mentor from school told our class last friday that he was gay. I suspected as much, but I didn't care at all. And he told us that he was in Amsterdam a while ago, and he got spit on by some boys, while he was holding hands with his boyfriend. Just Dutch guys, not from another country or whatsoever.
I was like 
So weird.
So, Holland has a long way to go too, imo. Even though gay people can marry in our country.
-------signature-------
Nosce te ipsum
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Cathexis
The Angel of Avalon
Joined: 26 Dec 2001
Posts: 5901
Location: ~~ Where Dreams Have No End�
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| Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:04 pm |
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Thank you, Birdy.
And thank you, Deb, for your contribution to this discussion. I appreciate your opinions.
| Quote: | | Prayer is all you need, love will follow. |
-My mother
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Pan13
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 22 Apr 2004
Posts: 338
Location: Belgium
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| Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:35 am |
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| Leo Wyatt wrote: | People may want to things equally but sometimes often work that way no matter how much we would want that. This issue will be an issue always.
I still stand firm on my belief. Some hate me now but some people don't read the posts well probably the ones that I am change person but any hoo.
Not to create an arguement here. I have two friends now that are gay. I don't agree with their life style cause I know it is wrong. But, I don't condmn them for it. I am constantly hanging with them like there's no tomrrow cause I possibly couldn't hate them. Heck, I even held one of their's hand in public today. I am not that bad of a person. I am not gay but I love my friend. Love should be the key and not hate.
I treat them with respect and not any different even though I don't agree with their choice. I treat them equally but doesn't mean they have the right to marry. But, I will never bring that up to them cause it is not my place. I say don't worry about the issue and let people just live their live cause no matter how hard we try, this will always be a debate about rather it should be banned. Just go about your life and don't worry about the people who think it should be banned.
Life is too short ! Probably this will be taken the wrong way cause I never can seem to get my words out right... |
mhm....kay, you know that it's wrong? what exactly makes you think that it's wrong? i don't think anyone has the right to say what's wrong and right in that issue....cause i personally think it's VERY right.....I know that there are a lot more heteros out there than there are gays, but still.....there are also more average intelligent ones than gifted people.....but it's still better....i hope you understand what I mean, when it comes to english i can't really write what I want to write
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:54 am |
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To say that no one has the right to say what is wrong on that issue is just another example of moral relativism, which is a flawed idea unto itself, and is a threat to the stability of society as a whole. If someone knows something is wrong, then they are allowed to say it. In this case, I completely agree with Deb. Attraction towards the same sex is disordered, and the acts are by their own nature gravely immoral because they go against divine, and natural law. This is not to say however that attraction to the same sex is sinful...it only becomes so when these unnatural desires are acted upon and promoted.
Homosexuality is itself a disordered idea of sexuality, and homosexual acts are acts of grave depravity, and are also intrinsically disordered. This is true for two reasons. The first reason is that homosexual behavior goes against divine law. The Bible among other things clearly states how homosexual acts are a grave sin and how repulsive this sin (as well as all others) is to God. While some will go so far as to try and disprove this claim, they simply cannot. Christ's Church, as well as the Bible have always, and continue to state this. As a matter of fact, the Church could never change its stance on this, because the Church has no right, nor the ability, to alter the law of God as is clearly stated:
| Quote: |
"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." |
(1 Cor. 6:9�10, NIV)
Furthermore, homosexual acts do not create a complementary union, able to transmit life; and therefore thwarts the call to a life of that form of self-giving which the Gospel says is the essence of Christian living. There is more proof spread throughout sacred scripture which I have not offered here, that states homosexual acts are gravely sinful acts against God
Not only do homosexual acts go against God's law; they go against natural law. Human beings have a basic intuition that certain behaviors are wrong because they are unnatural. We correctly perceive that bestiality is wrong, because it is unnatural. We come to this realization in several ways. First, the two creatures involved in the act are not complimentary to each other. Secondly, they have no chance of bringing forth new life. Finally, they cannot, in there act, completely give of themselves to the other and become one because they cannot properly relate. The same applies to homosexual behavior. It is clear that the natural sex partner for a man is a woman, and for a woman is a man. We can use the same points that clearly show how bestiality is wrong to show that homosexual acts also go against natural law.
Works Used:
Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on the Pastoral Care of Homsexual Persons
Homosexuality
Catechism of the Catholic Church Paragraphs 2357-2359
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Pan13
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 22 Apr 2004
Posts: 338
Location: Belgium
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| Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:08 pm |
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okay, so to the religious reason: How do you know what gods will (IF he exists, I don't believe in a god, but I won't deny it) is? The bible was written by humans, the church is runned by humans, humans made up the rules....so basicly, they wrote down what they thought was write to that time.....the bible is also against women a little bit, not like 6they are pure evil, but that men are better...that's because it was written by men....and I wouldn't believe everything the Church tells you, they were also against all those great scientist who proved that the Earth is not the middle of the Universe, and it turned out to be true....i've actually never read the bible, cause I think even if dthere is a god, what nobody can ever prove, I still think the bible is just a bunch of crap written together by some men 2000 years ago with their ideas of moral, and I think most of those ideas are discriminating, not only against gays, narrow-minded and just ignorant
and to the natural rason: there are a lot of things not natural.....do you think technology is natural? i mean, 2000 years ago we didn't have computers, and i think with that kind of technology they would have put you on the cross right next to Jesus...so why are you using a computer? the bible was written like 2000 years ago, and you still believe in what is said in it, so logically you would have to live like they did 2000 years ago, because everything else would be devilish for the guys who wrote the bible, and you seem just to listen to what ideas they propose without thinking
and when sex is only for reproduction, because that's the natural thing about sex, how comes that there are so many (straight) people ****ing around?
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:26 pm |
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| Pan13 wrote: | okay, so to the religious reason: How do you know what gods will (IF he exists, I don't believe in a god, but I won't deny it) is?
The Bible and the Word of God spoken through the Holy Spirit by people.
The bible was written by humans
The Bible is the word of God, written physically by humans, however, inspired by God and contains no error. The only time that it can be erroneous is when we interpret it incorrectly.
,he church is runned by humans, humans made up the rules
The Church is run by the Holy Spirit. Christ promised the Church that the gates of hell will never prevail against it. While satan attacks it from all sides, he will never be able to have complete victory over it.
The rules were not made up by humans. God has set forth the rules, the church simply declares them to the world, and shows its people how to follow them. That is why I said the Church does not have the authority to alter its stance on homosexuality, because it is not a rule the Church made up, but it is part of God's law, which the church is not capable of changing.
....so basicly, they wrote down what they thought was write to that time.....the bible is also against women a little bit, not like 6they are pure evil, but that men are better...
That is completly innacurate. If anything, the Bible declares, and demand that women be shown the dignity that they have and that they play a key role in Christ's Church. The dignity it shows women have is amazing and shuns the worlds view of women as objects and nothing more. Mary in fact was the Mother to Christ. God could have simply sent Christ without him being born of the Blessed Mary, but He chose Mary, whom accepted, for Christ to be born of and raised by.
that's because it was written by men....and I wouldn't believe everything the Church tells you, they were also against all those great scientist who proved that the Earth is not the middle of the Universe
I think you would be surprised at how the Church has helped progress the knowledge of the Western civilization. The Church set up the first universities that are comparable to what we see today. Despite what you may think, they actually had people with all different kinds of views, and also fostered much debate. I suggest you read a book called "How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization"
and to the natural rason: there are a lot of things not natural.....do you think technology is natural? i mean, 2000 years ago we didn't have computers, and i think with that kind of technology they would have put you on the cross right next to Jesus...so why are you using a computer?
What is unnatural about humans being an intelligent species? The Bible itself said God gave us dominion over the creatures of the Earth. God gave us the intellect to progress and the fruits of progess can be very good. When you use a computer, you are not going against any laws of nature. You use the electricity according to natures laws. There is nothing unnatural about this. When you fly in an airplane, you fly according to the laws of nature such as gravity, friction, drag, etc... and do not go against them.
and when sex is only for reproduction, because that's the natural thing about sex, how comes that there are so many (straight) people ****ing around?
Sex is not only used for reproduction. Intercourse is something that must be open to new life, and is also something that is to be used inside of marriage as a way to unify the couple through complete giving of oneself to another. Why are so many people sleeping around outside of marriage? I don't know, perhaps you should ask them. It is clear to me that they have either turned away from God, or have not come to know Him. |
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lionhead
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)
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| Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:34 pm |
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When i read Pucks replies i just smile. Because i know there is no talking against deeply religious people. Give it up now Pan13, saves a whole lot of trouble.
I don't agree on the way Christians look upon Homosxuality, i think the look of it is way to shallow since they base it of the bible and the bible is nowhere near "clear"
I mean, just the passage that Puck quoted alone: "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
It says, Homosexual Offenders, not Homosexuals in general right? Doesn't that means that it only points to the ones that do the act of Sodomy and the like? or am i reading this wrong?
and what does it actually mean with "the sexually immoral"?
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Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:16 pm |
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| lionhead wrote: | It says, Homosexual Offenders, not Homosexuals in general right? Doesn't that means that it only points to the ones that do the act of Sodomy and the like? or am i reading this wrong?
and what does it actually mean with "the sexually immoral"? |
In response to the first paragraph: yes, acts such as sexual intercorse between two people of the same sex is a sin, not homosexuality itself. I believe Puck already said that, anyway.
And in response to the second "sentence" sexually immoral implies anybody who uses sexual intercourse outside of marriage between a man and a woman, and/or anybody who has sex without being open to the option of possibly creating a baby (using condoms, and other methods of preventing pregnancy).
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Untitled
Commander
Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 396
Location: abandoned
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| Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:14 pm |
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I believe in love, and if two people are of age and consent and happen to be the same sex and are in love. Why is that wrong?
And also us humans love to have sex, there is truely nothing wrong with having sex with a person of the same sex if their of age and consent. And also if it is not hurting someone else in the process (say extra marrital sex)
Here's my question: Why is sex between to people of the same sex considered a sin?
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