USS Voyager-Boldly going where-wait-did I say boldy? Whoops

Founder · Last edited by Founder on Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:41 am; edited 2 times in total

Before people flip out and think I made a topic bashing VOY, let me explain. I think the idea of the show was incredible. A show where a Federation ship is lost in the truly unknown, alone and without back up. To top it off, half of the crew is going to be members of an organization that disliked the Federation. Both sides must unite if they want to live and make it back to their homes in the Alpha quadrant. Sounds good doesn't it? Too bad VOY completely ruined all of that. Instead of becoming a serious show about coping with life in an alien "universe", they did the exact same thing that TNG did, except weaken it. When it comes down to it, VOY simply did not take enough risks. It did not go boldly, but timidly. It had so many oppurtunities to be revolutionary, but it didn't do it. Imagine if TNG played it safe and didn't let Picard become assimilated? Or Sisko violating the prime directive to force the Romulans into the Dominion War? We would have lost such great character developing episodes.

Going into the unknown...

Q sent the Entreprise-D to the Delta quadrant because things humanity are not ready for were there, for example, the Borg. The Borg were so advanced and powerful, that they could take out a fleet of Federation ships. Wait...did I say they? I meant ONE of their ships could do that. VOY traveled through the Delta quadrant and did not meet any unique species. The only ones that were interesting were the Nacene(Caretaker species). They were wasted really fast. Everyone else was something that you would see in the Alpha quadrant. The Hirogen, Malon, Vidiians, Kazon, and Species 8472 while plain looking(minus 8472 who looked awesome), actually had pretty cool cultures. But they were still something I would expect to find in the Alpha quadrant. A complete dissapointment. The anomalies were not really interesting either. It was things that VOY were able to always easily get out of without any repurcussions. There was nothing unique about the Delta quadrant. They may as well have done a show in the Alpha. It seemed like they just wanted to abuse the idea of being lost. Wasted now...

Maquis and Federation crew...

There was SO much potential with this. Season I dealt with it for a little while. It was a problem, but after season I, it didn't seem to matter. They just melded into the crew and that was that. Now they were all a Federation crew. Yippee! BORING. Not risky at all. What was the point of making them Maquis? They became Federation officers starting season II anyways... They shouldn't have made the Maquis, a people who were willing to die for their cause, such push overs. Janeway NEEDED them due to the losses she suffered. Chakotay could have agreed to be a commander, but said they would not always go with Federation rules. That they would never follow the prime directive. Can you imagine how conflicting that would have been in future episodes? If Janeway pulled the "No! This is a Federation ship! We follow the Prime Directive!!!(Unless I need to violate it, which I do a lot later with no remorse)." He could said "I just scarficed my ship to save this one. You owe us. Good luck flying the ship without any backup and half the normal compliment of crewman..." She would have had to crumble. Then in future episodes when a problem arose, Janeway could preach the Prime Directive, while Chakotay would argue how a Maquis officer would do it. So much conflict. DS9 had it with the Federation officers mixing with the Bajoran Militia. They dealt with it well and the Bajorans never became the quintesential Federation officers. I won't even comment on how cool it would have been for a mutiny arc. Like three episodes dedicated to a VOY civil war. Such a waste...

Q and the Borg...

The VOY fans get angry when I say this, but both of those brilliant ideas made by TNG, were wasted with this show. The Borg were beaten season after season after season. Wait, the Borg? By Voyager? The little science ship? Are you saying the little science ship could do what a fleet of Federation starships could not do? I doubt it. They watered down the Borg for plot points. Seven of Nine was a VERY good idea on VOY's part. Her assistance could probably find weaknesses with Borg, but it only goes so far. The Borg would adapt from her absence and knowledge. She can only help the ship so much. The Borg were a terrifying enemy, but no longer. Once the ship reached the dreaded Borg space, the following seasons could have revolved around surviving against the Borg. Please note I'm not saying, FIGHTING, I said surviving. Can you imagine how gritty it would be for the ship having to survive through Borg space? While I do like the way they got out of it, "Kes' gift", I thought it was a cheap deus ex machina. They managed to completely circumvent Borg space and back to TNG, watered down. Yay. VOY gets lost in the area of space where the Borg are from and they skip their entire space in one episode. What was the point? Yes, I know people will point out the Borg were later seen, even out of their space. True, but they came back week after week, where VOY would easily blow them up. I will admit that VOY made two good Borg episodes when Chakotay found that "collective" that was freed from the Borg Collective. Also, the episode when three Borg came onboard and they used to know Seven. Because of her, they were trapped in a mini collective. This show took a risk by killing them off at the end, instead of the EMH finding a miracle cure. Not enough of these episodes though. They should have shown Hugh, the Borg from TNG, in the show. He was supposed to be freeing Borg if I recall or how about the Borg freed from the "Dream world". Didn't they discover a way to free other Borg too? That was never heard of again. So much wasted with the Borg.
Onto Q now. He was of course this trickster alien. An omnipotent being that would torture humanity, not just for amusement, but for a lesson to be learned. Testing humanity to see if they could go into the unknown. What the hell happened to Q in VOY? Death Wish. A good episode, albeight a predictable one. I knew Quinn would not join the crew with all of his knowledge. He would get the crew home in a week, bending a geodesic folds and such.

Good idea nonetheless, although the idea of an omnipotent being wanting to die because he was bored is so flawed. Its such a Human made idea. "I wouldn't want to live forever! I'd get bored!" Um...what? In a universe that is forever expanding and new species are born everyday with infinite realities, you get bored? I doubt it. He should have simply wanted to experiance death. To see a TRUE unknown. Not..."I'm bored." Then the Q civil war emerged from this dumb idea. Not to mention, we finally see the much talked about continuim from TNG, and its a friggin desert road. What the hell was that all about? I understand its supposed to be imagery. "The road is the universe and leads back here. We've done everything there is to do!" STUPID. I doubt the universe can ever been fully seen, omnipotent alien or not. They explored the universe and all of time? Come on. Beings that have become masters of time itself should not be getting bored of their jobs. They don't work at friggin Burger King flipping burgers. Q wants to bear a child with Janeway. Ok, gross. But fine whatever. I'll admit that Q and Janeway play off of each other brilliantly. Too bad that it was wasted. Can you imagine Q popping up every know and then torturing VOY? He could offer them a way home, but by doing so, they would have to A) violate the prime directive or B) Hurt a species or whatever. Can you imagine him going secretly to the Maquis Chakotay and offering the same deal? Janeway and Chakotay conflicting. Nope. Instead he becomes a dad by...humerously I'll admit...mating. When he becomes a dad...the Q we knew DIED. He became this NICE, now grown up, alien. Please bring Q back from TNG. Please....

Um...how many shuttles and crewman can you lose? VOY battle damage?

Here are some more repurcussions that NEVER surfaced. Shuttles were easily rebuilt, no problem to resources. Once every season a resource problem would sprout. In the end, VOY would always get it. So freaking boring. This show had the only ship that could land on a planet. They did it what? Every one episode every two seasons? WASTE. I'm not saying they should have abused it to the point where it got boring, but a little more use of it's "uniqueness" would have been nice. Can you imagine if the USS Defiant NEVER cloaked? They should have landed more often to hide from enemies, due to engine problems, the crew wanting to actually GO to a planet. I don't care, just anything. Resources should have been a problem. They never did and when I say problem? I don't mean, at the beginning and then they get it in the end. I mean, they never get them and from then on something doesn't work. There was never a sense of danger. Can you imagine after losing crewman after crewman, what toll that would take on the ship? Well, apparently it had none on the show. Because the loss of crewman was barely ever mentioned. They should have lost so many, that it would start to become a worry. That security officers would be helping in engineering, while science officers were helping the injured in sickbay. A sense of unity within the ship. The ship was marketed as not a standard Federation ship. Yet it sure did look and act like one. They could have "solved" the loss of crewman problem by absorbing the Equinox crew. Lastly is battle damage. Every episode....VOY would look spotless and nice. Such a pretty ship. I've seen worse looking starships that DID recieve maintaince constantly. What is the deal? How did they always repair the hull if they never land anyways eh? Also, if you tell me "They went to alien stations for repairs!!!" Really? That is exactly what the ENT-D did. So what was the point of being lost without help then if they could go to a space station for repairs? Can you imagine how cool it would have been if the next episode, Janeway is complaining to Torres about the damaged phaser array? It would show continuity. It would show DAMAGE. Eventually of course it would be repaired, but at least give it like three seasons or something. I like Year of Hell, because it shows the way it should have been. How the bulkheads were falling apart. The crew had DIRTY uniforms. Injured crewman all about. Everyone, captain included, rushing to repair things. It would have made a sense of closeness amongst them. Guess not...

Equinox-WASTED

I would like to comment on the Equinox and what a waste. Raise your hands if you didn't know the Equinox would be destroyed by the end of the two parter. Yeah, It was painfully obvious the Equinox wouldn't make it. Such a waste. I know maintaining two ships in the show would have been impossible, but maybe for a few more episodes? That would have been cool. The two ships helping each other or as reoccuring enemies. The two parter could have ended with the Equinox fleeing after VOY emerged victorious. Then maybe it popping in and out every few episodes. Like Weyoune did for DS9. Eventually, after being a reoccuring bad guy to VOY, finally the fight comes down to Ransom and Janeway. Ransom suddenly turning good was weak IMO. I mean, at least they kept the commander guy bad. But Janeway could finally beat Ransom. Then they bring the Equinox and VOY to a planet and completely strip it of resources and hull parts, etc. It could be left behind, a dead monument to a corrupt group of officers. Janeway could then force the Equinox crew to join them or remain on the planet. Show a more FORCEFUL Janeway.

Ethics is a good thing right?

Last but not least, ethics. Something Janeway loved to have until she needed to shed it for personal gain. How cool would it have been if Janeway, after years of struggles and Chakotay's whisperings of disobedience, for her to start to question the prime directive. She did it on the show, I'll admit that. But in the end, minus Tuvix, she would find a way to not violate it. Tuvix would have been cool on her part, if she wasn't so damn hypocritical. At some points she liked using it and at others, she didn't. Hypocrite. It should have gotten to the point where the ship was so bad that she would give a small amount of bio-memtic gel to a culture for hull parts or something. I'm not saying she should have become as bad as Ransom, but her ethics should have become less than savory. Not because she is evil, but because she is desperate to bring her crew home. Anyway possible...

Ok that is my rant and my observations on VOY and it's missed oppurtunities. Feel free to debate and discuss...

I wish they had made a show about the USS Equnox. Might have been more interesting...

Lord Borg · **Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:38 pm**

I have to agree on SEVERAL points here. So much wasted opertunity. The fact that several eps has Voyager reciving MASSAVE damage, and it's repaired compleatly by next episode at the latest. This is where year of hell was indeed, good (Although, they were under constant attack, that's why they couldnt repair it all...) As for the recources, I agree there, they would get it at the end of the episode, and yet on the same hand, couldn't use replicators very much... plot device to have a cook make actuall food. WASTE. Everything eles (Like, the holodeck!) could be used all the time with no worries... you can't tell me they couldnt have found more Bio matter to "refill" the replicators, it comes from things thrown out, (Uneatend food, plates, utincials, etc... put back into the replicator) Granted, the "power" or what ever, again, wast, they were able to leave a holodeck on ALL the time. To be frank, what they did with the replicator was stupid, granted, it was cool seeing their faces when Neelix made strange things

I also wanna complain about the "Pleasure episode" They culdnt find a away to get the technology from the aliens for the thing that made them go 30,000 light years in seconds, and didn't even bother to offer a compromise for them using it to send them on their way it was "I want the technology compleatly" "No" "OK" instead of "Well, how about sending us as far as you can? for (negotiate here) that way, we both bend our rules some, while not compleatly violating them"

Q episodes: UGH, HATED them, the one "Death Wish" so boring, I agree with the whole continum thing, while the symbole is there, and could be appreicated, but a desert road? Please, and like Founder said, the Universe/Galaxy has SO much happining, with new things being born each day. How do you get bord? granted, things could be "similar" andy it's apparent they can travle though time, which is endless, so even though you are ageless, and are omnipotent, how still, can you see everything? with new things being born, and ever changing/never ending time can you see it all?

Character development: Wow... almost don't want to go on this rant, it wasn't the best of the trek sega, that's for damn sure. It was dry for the most part, friendships occured yes, but geeze, supposed to have a "family" feel and none of the minor chars or crewman seemed to be involved, granted they all called each other by name (For the most part) and they tried to take care of each other, but some of the things that happend "Blah" everyone still had thieer "crowd" sorry, but only haveing 150 people or less from home, I'd know them ALL well, not just five people. (You can blame janewayfor that partly)

Ok... rant's done for now...

lionhead · **Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:16 am**

I also certainly agree on most parts. escpeically the borg. What a waste.

The borg supposedly be the prime enemy throughout the show but instead they tried too personalize them, make them more real. What a waste.

lionhead · **Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:31 am**

Right, now that i'm off from work i can really respond.

i don't agree no the bit about the Euqinox, 2 captains, 2 small sips, wouldn't work. Much of the equinox's crew where gone or gone crazy so then oyagers crew wouldh ave had too take over and such and that wouldn't work in my eyes. Its good the Equinox and its captain got killed, that dude was crazy.

the borg however, oh boy. I can't agree with you more, where is the dangerous species the enterprise encountered? Where is the mystery that lies within the Borg cubes walls, why would we not want to know what drives them, what goes on in the Queens mind? I would have actually wanted to see more facts about their Destructive nature rather then their total incapacity to Self-Supply their needs and lets a Very small Federation starsip get the better of them every time.

Species 8472 was kinda cool though, but he borg sohuld have gotten better after that, also against Vyager but they didn't, instead the queen got Personalized and that was their biggest mistake.

I did like some species they encountered though, most notably the Malon and Voth. I liked the malon, they are beautifully portrait like the Quadrant scum that are just to powerfull and stubborn to be eraticated. Laso some scenario's created where unique and niely done, like the Hirogen(or was it the kazon) that wanted to have Holographic technology too continue their hunts.

and the Voth, oh the most advanced species ever ecountered that are even more convinced about their stupidity then the Malon are. I love it, showed real pontential the Voth, they should have used them in more episodes, they are from Earth for god's sake.

The maquis and situations on voyager don't bother me though, except maybe the coming and going of all types of species and none of them seemed to cause a problem, as long as they are on Voyager.

MakeItSo · **Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:00 am**

Yeah, I liked Voyager and I liked the Borg, they were cool, but the writers played out the whole Borg plot WAY too much on Voyager. They weren't mysterious and creepy anymore after that.

The species that Voyager encountered that I thought were creepy were the Viidians. They just...creeped me out with wanting their organs. I thought that the Hirogen, and Species 8472 were good new species though.

I thought Q on Voyager was funny though. I just really liked the character, so whenever he shows up, I get excited because he's an awesome actor!

By the way, Lionhead, is your icon of Grace Park from Battlestar: Galactica? If not, then that sure looks like her.

randy23 · Crewman Joined: 17 Mar 2006 Posts: 1

lionhead, who is that in your avatar?

JupiterPrime · Lieutenant Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 208

Founder · **Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:37 pm**

Is there any chance that the newbs can stop spamming my topic? My topic is not about his avatar.

lionhead · **Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:41 pm**

beautifulfleetcommander · **Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:36 pm**

i disagree the borg was fabulous they looked real and updated and they were strong although they were a bit on the dumb side some times but there you go

lionhead · **Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:32 am**

When where they dumb?

squiggy · **Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:05 pm**

Personally I agree with ALL of it.
Voyager was a phenominal show.
HOWEVER, like founder stated, INCREDIBLY watered down.
I should also point out that Kes had such an incredible potential, and they gave her the flush du toilet with a "gift".

ZiriDelvar · Lieutenant, Junior Grade Joined: 20 Aug 2005 Posts: 79

I agree that Voyager was way too "clean" there should have been scars on the hull and black streaks in the corridors from fires and battle damage. The Enterprise (NCC-1701) retained scars even after it had been weeks from the battles with Khan. How is that Voyager always manages to clean up perfectly. No phaser marks on the hull, even after obvious fires, the ship cleans perfectly.

The clean uniforms were probably ok, since they could have replicated new ones, though I agree that they certainly didn't have much trouble finding energy sources for the ship. Surely they could have used patched and torn uniforms for a while before getting new ones.

It would have been neat if they could have had several episodes where they are missing power and then had them have to adapt to some power source that was common in the Delta Quadrant... maybe there would have been no Dylithium Crystals in the Delta Quadrant and they would have to adapt to some energy source that was available in the Delta Quadrant...

Then again, perhaps the show was telling us that the universe is basically homogenous, that there are simular minerals and cultures (if not exact) throughout the universe.

Lord Borg · **Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:28 pm**

startrekgirltng · **Fri Mar 24, 2006 9:04 pm**

Voyager = invinicble against Borg

Any other ship = Not invinicble... major damage occurs... people on the bridge die

Voyager = going from point A to point B

any other ship = Going from point A to B to C to A to D

you get the idea??

ZiriDelvar · Lieutenant, Junior Grade Joined: 20 Aug 2005 Posts: 79

Founder · **Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:31 pm**

Sonic74205 · **Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:03 pm**

Founder i completly agree with you 100%

And actually as i was reading your very long but interesting post. It made me realise something. SEASON 3 ENTERPRISE IS WHAT VOYAGER SHOULD HAVE BEEN!. Sorry i just thought of that and had to add it. They showed there battle damage, many deaths, broken bulkheads and rubble, parts of the ship uninhabitable. It showed reserves running low and trying to replenish suplys and the crew begining to crack under pressure. I think a good way to show Voyagers potential is to look at season 3 enterprise

With the Equinox i thought it was VERY interesting, definatly one of the best stories. And yes i would have liked to see the Equinox pop up in an episode briefly then later on probably finally come back for a 2 - 3 part epiosde about it being destroyed and the crew being brought to Voyager.

The Marquis was definatly over too fast i agree. The Maquis was basically "Cartaker", "State of Flux" and "Alliances" and even then it was only touched on breifly. The Marquis plot could have easily been one of Voyagers strongest ongoing plots, but it was swept into the corner.

Also the miraculus reset button voyager seemed to have. That was annoying. Showing episodes and then at the end we find out it didnt really exist or it did but the crew dont remember and blah blah blah. WHAT THE HELL IS THAT?!

Also what you mentioned about the Ethics. Id also like to touch on the fact of sharing technology. in the first few seasons Janeway was always going on about how they cant affect the power in that quadrant and that she will never turn to sharing technology for passage through space etc. She felt So strongly about it and we really could feel the emotion and passion janeway put into how she will not share federation technology. Then in an epiosde of one of the later seasons janeways says to an alien shes trading with "I suggest the replicators. They're very popular this month" HAS SHE BEEN BRAINWASHED OR SOMETHING?! It was harsh.

Lord Borg · **Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:27 pm**

Founder · **Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:52 pm**

Sonic74205 · **Sat Apr 08, 2006 11:15 am**

Very true, they should have taken some tips from TNG also sort of qinding down from events that happened in the previous episode. Like the episode "Family" after "Best of Both Worlds"

Also the amount of crew voyager has. It left DS9 with 141. Then we know that AT LEAST 3 of the crew died. Then the Marquis crew came onboard and there was probably around 10-20 crew on Chakotays ship because of its size. over the seasons voyager loosess quite alot of crew. In Caretaker crew was lost. In Alliances it was mentioned that 3 crewmen had been killed and they mentioned more in other episodes. Then in season 5 or 6 i think it was Neelixs says "Voyager has a crew of 151" then in the next episode Neelix says "There are 153 crew onboard" So how did voyager gain 2 crewmen inbetween episode!? i doubt they replicated them....

Another thing i would like to add is Neelix. He was the ships cook. It would have been impossible for Neelix alone to cook and clean for a crew of 150+ for 7 years. He probably would have had a newvouse breakdown unless talaxians have some kind of speed cooking & cleaning powers we dont know about. I have worked in a pub for almost 4 years on and off now and i know that it would be almost impossible to do that even with the aid or replicators. And lets not forget that Neelix had lots of other jobs too, no one person could do all that. No way.

Id also like to add i think sickbay was involved too much. I actually cant think of an episode where we dont see sickbay on voyager. The Bridge is the ships C & C. Not sickbay.

Lord Borg · **Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:16 pm**

It isn't impossible, not everyone eats at once, poor Neelix just works all day, but you do have a point when he is alone most of the time

Sonic74205 · **Sun Apr 09, 2006 8:40 am**

Yes i know everyone doesnt eat at once. Half the crew would be on there shifts and the other half would be asleep. But still thats around 50 - 75 people he has to cook breakfast for and clean up after. Then lunch then clean after. Then snacks and then dinner and clean up after that and then he would have to prepare even more meals for when the other parts of the crew come on there shifts.

One person cooking 3 meals a day for 150+ crew on 2 - 3 shift rotations and having to clean everything up after cooking. Plus being an ambassador and moral officer and collecting supplys from planets and helping Voyager navigate through the quadrant for 7 years. No way. Also we know that neexlix didnt have any help because on the episodes when hes not there for some reason we see the crew in shambles about what to eat and how to cook because neelix was the only one that did it. Im sorry but its rather far-fetched if you ask me.

Fish1941

Founder