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Seven of Nine
Sammie's Mammy
Joined: 16 Jun 2001
Posts: 7871
Location: North East England
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 Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:32 pm |
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You had your own reasons for wanting to keep your baby. Women have their own reasons for abortion. In my case, it was health reasons- keeping the baby could have killed both of us (and that's before the baby was viable- I had emergency abdominal surgery when the baby would have been 6 months gestation, and it would have been earlier had I still been pregnant). That would have left Sammie without a mother, and for what? A fetus that probably wouldn't survive? If that makes me a murderer, then so is everyone who kills in self defence (which this in a way was).
Most people have supported me in this, including those at church. Abortion is never an easy option, and it's often more difficult than people realise. I don't think people should impose their views on others in this case.
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:42 pm |
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| PrankishSmart wrote: | | LightningBoy wrote: | | I would rather be murdered tomorrow, than never to have been born at all. |
You have never been in the situation and have no idea at all what it would be like for the sake of the mother or child. Your only throwing out opinions based on your own life experiences. You need to think outside of your own life and religion to comprehend the subject. |
So answer this question, yes or no.
Would you rather be murdered tomorrow, or never have lived at all
Nobody has the right to take someone else's life, other than in self defense. If the mother's life is at risk, I can live with it, otherwise, no beans.
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:53 pm |
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Like I said this world has no conscience it seems. It has gone mad and corrupt. Not saying all people. There are some who has morals. Killing a innocent baby cause the mother don't want it ... She shouldn't punish the baby for the sins of the father. I guess noone really listens, there are other options than abortions. Adoption is a great one. And don't tell me it is not cause it is. Got to know the right way to go about it.
Yes women have rights but not to take a life. It is not in her hands to do it.
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:19 pm |
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| Birdy wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | Yeah, but to deny the child the choice? How do you know that it'll have serious problems? I'm not saying that it wouldn't be difficult, but to simply abort all children that wouldn't have our idea of a "good" life is just strange. Should we also abort the children of all mothers who are living below the poverty line? It's doubtful that they'll have a "good" life for at least their first 18 years.
There's always adoption, and the choice of not telling the child, as well. |
I've given this a great deal of thought. You know what it is? I don't like when people decide things for other people. It's fine if you think it's murder, you don't support it, etc. But why deny other women that choice? Because, if they WANT an abortion, I can assure you, they'll get it. Either way. So, in South Dakota, it will be the ILLEGAL way. That's what's making ME sick, that women have to turn to ILLEGAL MEASURES to get an abortion. You say they always have adoption, but I don't think you can understand what it is to be pregnant, when you DON'T want to be pregnant, and you do not wish to have that child. I think no man, or woman who has never been pregnant, can! Why decide that for them? Why implement your morals onto them? I thought this was a free world, a free country, where people can decide for themselves what to do with their lives? |
We're also implementing "our" morals when we make laws against stealing and murder. Perhaps we should make them legal, so nobody has to turn to "illegal measures" to get what they want? Not to mention drugs. Afterall, it is your body, so shouldn't you be able to take as much heroin as you want? That logic doesn't exactly apply.
Last edited by IntrepidIsMe on Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:14 pm |
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| Birdy wrote: | | Because, if they WANT an abortion, I can assure you, they'll get it. Either way. So, in South Dakota, it will be the ILLEGAL way. That's what's making ME sick, that women have to turn to ILLEGAL MEASURES to get an abortion. |
And every one of these women should be locked up for life for murder.
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:13 pm |
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| LightningBoy wrote: | | Birdy wrote: | | Because, if they WANT an abortion, I can assure you, they'll get it. Either way. So, in South Dakota, it will be the ILLEGAL way. That's what's making ME sick, that women have to turn to ILLEGAL MEASURES to get an abortion. |
And every one of these women should be locked up for life for murder. |
Great. Now you figure out a way to lock up millions of women who are leaving the country to get abortions. Real simple.
It'll happen. The government can't stop it. It's happened before, it was called back-alley abortions. They were sick, twisted, and far worse than an abortion preformed by a doctor in a sterile enviornment. They'd use coat hangers, bicycle spokes, throw themselves down the stairs, and the list goes on. It'll happen. It has happened. It's nothing new.
Here's the choice as I see it, moral or not:
1. legalize abortions in certain situations.
2. totally illegalize abortions and force women to return to back-alley abortions.
I find that, personally, the first option is a much better solution. Not perfectly moral, but the outcome will be much better.
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Link, the Hero of Time
Vice Admiral
Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 5581
Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:25 pm |
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| LightningBoy wrote: | | And every one of these women should be locked up for life for murder. |
And will we be arresting the children for murder when they kill the mother during birth?
-------signature-------
"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." President Thomas Jefferson
"A man's respect for law and order exists in precise relationship to the size of his paycheck." Adam Clayton Powell Jr.
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:07 pm |
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| Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | | LightningBoy wrote: | | And every one of these women should be locked up for life for murder. |
And will we be arresting the children for murder when they kill the mother during birth? |
Ridiculous. The child didn't kill the mother, the birth did. Before posting such pedantic, illogical, and silly arguments; think about what your saying.
Fact is, not EVERY woman who would normally consider an abortion would seek a back alley abortion. Heck, studies show that most people will follow a law, simply because it's on the book. Let's list the options this way:
Legalize abortion, and many women will have them properly.
Illegalize abortion, and a few women will have them dangerously, and then be punished by the government for taking a life.
Given the options, I'll take the latter; anyday.
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:35 am |
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| LightningBoy wrote: | | PrankishSmart wrote: | | LightningBoy wrote: | | I would rather be murdered tomorrow, than never to have been born at all. |
You have never been in the situation and have no idea at all what it would be like for the sake of the mother or child. Your only throwing out opinions based on your own life experiences. You need to think outside of your own life and religion to comprehend the subject. |
So answer this question, yes or no.
Would you rather be murdered tomorrow, or never have lived at all
Nobody has the right to take someone else's life, other than in self defense. If the mother's life is at risk, I can live with it, otherwise, no beans. |
Abortion is not murder. It is preventing cell development at some stage pre-birth. I don't see how your example is meaningful in the manner indended. Give me a relevant example.
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:39 am |
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| Leo Wyatt wrote: | Like I said this world has no conscience it seems. It has gone mad and corrupt. Not saying all people. There are some who has morals. Killing a innocent baby cause the mother don't want it ... She shouldn't punish the baby for the sins of the father. I guess noone really listens, there are other options than abortions. Adoption is a great one. And don't tell me it is not cause it is. Got to know the right way to go about it.
Yes women have rights but not to take a life. It is not in her hands to do it. |
First you say it's the mother's fault for 'spreading her legs', now you say 'the sins of the father'. So whos fault is it? The mother or father? Or, more to the point, the male or female, becuase they are only mothers and fathers AFTER birth.
Your talk sounds very religion like as well, and were trying to keep religion speprate from the law here, right?
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:59 am |
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Someone mention rape so I responded that.  
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Birdy
Socialist
Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Posts: 13502
Location: Here.
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| Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:29 am |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | We're also implementing "our" morals when we make laws against stealing and murder. Perhaps we should make them legal, so nobody has to turn to "illegal measures" to get what they want? Not to mention drugs. Afterall, it is your body, so shouldn't you be able to take as much heroin as you want? That logic doesn't exactly apply. |
I'm sorry you don't see my point of view. I don't compare things like you do, but hey, maybe that's because I'm a woman, and I've been in a situation where I thought I was pregnant, but luckily I wasn't after all.
| LightningBoy wrote: | | And every one of these women should be locked up for life for murder. |
I can see now you understand very little of what a woman goes through when she's pregnant, and when she wants an abortion.
I hope one day you will.
I think I've made my opinion clear now.. The talking in circles will always be there with this issue right? 
-------signature-------
Nosce te ipsum
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:59 pm |
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| PrankishSmart wrote: | | LightningBoy wrote: | | PrankishSmart wrote: | | LightningBoy wrote: | | I would rather be murdered tomorrow, than never to have been born at all. |
You have never been in the situation and have no idea at all what it would be like for the sake of the mother or child. Your only throwing out opinions based on your own life experiences. You need to think outside of your own life and religion to comprehend the subject. |
So answer this question, yes or no.
Would you rather be murdered tomorrow, or never have lived at all
Nobody has the right to take someone else's life, other than in self defense. If the mother's life is at risk, I can live with it, otherwise, no beans. |
Abortion is not murder. It is preventing cell development at some stage pre-birth. I don't see how your example is meaningful in the manner indended. Give me a relevant example. |
That's not yes or no.
Would you rather have had your cells stopped in development before your birth, or be murdered tomorrow? It's not a very tough question.
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:02 pm |
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| Birdy wrote: | | LightningBoy wrote: | | And every one of these women should be locked up for life for murder. |
I can see now you understand very little of what a woman goes through when she's pregnant, and when she wants an abortion.
I hope one day you will. |
Oh, give me a break... I really couldn't care less what's going on in her head; I have no concern for a mother contemplating abortion, I have concern for the poor child about to be slaughtered.
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Birdy
Socialist
Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Posts: 13502
Location: Here.
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| Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:06 pm |
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| LightningBoy wrote: | | Oh, give me a break... I really couldn't care less what's going on in her head; I have no concern for a mother contemplating abortion, I have concern for the poor child about to be slaughtered. |
My point exactly.
-------signature-------
Nosce te ipsum
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madlilnerd
Duchess of Dancemat
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 5885
Location: Slough, England
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| Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:36 pm |
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Partial birth abortions are only needed if continuing the pregnancy will kill the mother. There is no excuse for waiting so long to have an abortion because it is so easy to know you're pregnant and get an early abortion nowadays. I do not support any abortion at a time when the baby even has the tiniest chance of being viable.
I do think that it's okay to have a regular abortion because at that point it's just a bundle of cells, not anything that even closely resembles a baby.
Why shouuld a woman go to prison for killing 16 cells in "the land of the free"?
| Quote: | | Would you rather be murdered tomorrow, or never have lived at all |
My choice? Never have lived at all rather than be brought into this hellish earth.
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:35 pm |
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| LightningBoy wrote: | | Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | | LightningBoy wrote: | | And every one of these women should be locked up for life for murder. |
And will we be arresting the children for murder when they kill the mother during birth? |
Ridiculous. The child didn't kill the mother, the birth did. Before posting such pedantic, illogical, and silly arguments; think about what your saying.
Fact is, not EVERY woman who would normally consider an abortion would seek a back alley abortion. Heck, studies show that most people will follow a law, simply because it's on the book. Let's list the options this way:
Legalize abortion, and many women will have them properly.
Illegalize abortion, and a few women will have them dangerously, and then be punished by the government for taking a life.
Given the options, I'll take the latter; anyday. |
Do your research. You'd be amazed how many women recieved back-alley abortions prior to Roe v. Wade. Not to mention the fact that many of these operations prevented the mother from ever having children in the future.
| http://www.coolnurse.com/abortion_legal.htm wrote: |
In the two decades before abortion was legal in the U.S., it's been estimated that nearly a million women per year sought out illegal abortions. Thousands died. Tens of thousands were mutilated. All were forced to behave as if they were criminals.
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Not exactly an unbiased referance, but I'm reasonably sure those numbers are an accurate assesment.
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:17 pm |
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Lightningboy, how can you think that only a few women will consider illegal abortions if they are outlawed? Thousands will take the illegal option, and most likely kill themselves! How can you support that?
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:18 am |
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I don't support illegal activity. If they break the law, they're risking it. Fact is, people shouldn't be having abortions. Those who would break the law to get one, have no sympathy from me; and should be charged with murder one.
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:03 am |
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| LightningBoy wrote: | | PrankishSmart wrote: | | LightningBoy wrote: | | PrankishSmart wrote: | | LightningBoy wrote: | | I would rather be murdered tomorrow, than never to have been born at all. |
You have never been in the situation and have no idea at all what it would be like for the sake of the mother or child. Your only throwing out opinions based on your own life experiences. You need to think outside of your own life and religion to comprehend the subject. |
So answer this question, yes or no.
Would you rather be murdered tomorrow, or never have lived at all
Nobody has the right to take someone else's life, other than in self defense. If the mother's life is at risk, I can live with it, otherwise, no beans. |
Abortion is not murder. It is preventing cell development at some stage pre-birth. I don't see how your example is meaningful in the manner indended. Give me a relevant example. |
That's not yes or no.
Would you rather have had your cells stopped in development before your birth, or be murdered tomorrow? It's not a very tough question. |
In my situation, of course I would rather live. But as I said, it's irrelevant because, well it's a bit of the catch-22. Neither of us have been in the situation to know. Your basing things of your own life and all i'm saying is thats not the way to look at the subject.
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:04 am |
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| LightningBoy wrote: | | I don't support illegal activity. If they break the law, they're risking it. Fact is, people shouldn't be having abortions. Those who would break the law to get one, have no sympathy from me; and should be charged with murder one. |
You agree with every single written law? Every law.. with a passion.. odd..
Um..
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:27 pm |
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| PrankishSmart wrote: | | LightningBoy wrote: | | I don't support illegal activity. If they break the law, they're risking it. Fact is, people shouldn't be having abortions. Those who would break the law to get one, have no sympathy from me; and should be charged with murder one. |
You agree with every single written law? Every law.. with a passion.. odd..
Um.. |
No, I don't. But I follow them.
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:21 pm |
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| LightningBoy wrote: | | PrankishSmart wrote: | | LightningBoy wrote: | | I don't support illegal activity. If they break the law, they're risking it. Fact is, people shouldn't be having abortions. Those who would break the law to get one, have no sympathy from me; and should be charged with murder one. |
You agree with every single written law? Every law.. with a passion.. odd..
Um.. |
No, I don't. But I follow them. |
Slightly strange. Everyone breaks the 'law' at some point in their lives no matter how minor. These women breaking the law because they need an abortion would have my sympathy.
Lets face it. The 'law' was writted by idiots, with opinions just like you and me. To say you support the 'law' means you support idiots more than you support the terrified 14yo rape victim.
Law this, law that. Law Schmaw.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:36 pm |
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| PrankishSmart wrote: | | LightningBoy wrote: | | PrankishSmart wrote: | | LightningBoy wrote: | | PrankishSmart wrote: | | LightningBoy wrote: | | I would rather be murdered tomorrow, than never to have been born at all. |
You have never been in the situation and have no idea at all what it would be like for the sake of the mother or child. Your only throwing out opinions based on your own life experiences. You need to think outside of your own life and religion to comprehend the subject. |
So answer this question, yes or no.
Would you rather be murdered tomorrow, or never have lived at all
Nobody has the right to take someone else's life, other than in self defense. If the mother's life is at risk, I can live with it, otherwise, no beans. |
Abortion is not murder. It is preventing cell development at some stage pre-birth. I don't see how your example is meaningful in the manner indended. Give me a relevant example. |
That's not yes or no.
Would you rather have had your cells stopped in development before your birth, or be murdered tomorrow? It's not a very tough question. |
In my situation, of course I would rather live. But as I said, it's irrelevant because, well it's a bit of the catch-22. Neither of us have been in the situation to know. Your basing things of your own life and all i'm saying is thats not the way to look at the subject. |
Well what is the way to look at it then? No one has the right to speak for someone else when it comes to deciding life or death. Many great people who turn up and live great, productive lives come from opressive, abusive, bad environments. No one has the right to decide that the babies life is going to be so bad, or the situation so horrible that they will never be able to live properly. Humans will/can overcome pretty much anything. A shame that we have degraded the value of life so much that we don't realize this.
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Sat Mar 11, 2006 1:26 pm |
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| PrankishSmart wrote: | | LightningBoy wrote: | | PrankishSmart wrote: | | LightningBoy wrote: | | I don't support illegal activity. If they break the law, they're risking it. Fact is, people shouldn't be having abortions. Those who would break the law to get one, have no sympathy from me; and should be charged with murder one. |
You agree with every single written law? Every law.. with a passion.. odd..
Um.. |
No, I don't. But I follow them. |
To say you support the 'law' means you support idiots more than you support the terrified 14yo rape victim. |
I guess I do.
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