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IntrepidIsMe
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 Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:35 pm AP: Report calls Katrina 'national failure' |
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| Quote: | AP: Report calls Katrina 'national failure'
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Unheeded warnings, poor planning and apathy in recognizing the scope of Hurricane Katrina's destruction led to the slow emergency response from the White House down to local parishes, a House investigation concludes.
The 600-page report by a special Republican-dominated House inquiry into one of the worst natural disasters in U.S. history concluded the federal government's response to Katrina was marked by "fecklessness, flailing and organizational paralysis."
It said President Bush received poor and incomplete counsel about the crisis unfolding on the Gulf Coast and that late state and local evacuation orders added to the confusion at the federal level.
"Our investigation revealed that Katrina was a national failure, an abdication of the most solemn obligation to provide for the common welfare," said a summary of the scathing report obtained Sunday by The Associated Press.
"At every level -- individual, corporate, philanthropic, and governmental -- we failed to meet the challenge that was Katrina," the report concluded.
"In this cautionary tale, all the little pigs built houses of straw."
The House findings mark the first of two congressional inquiries and a White House review of the storm response expected over the next six weeks.
On Monday, the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee was to continue its own investigation into the August 29 storm response by examining potentially widespread abuse in federal emergency cash assistance programs for disaster victims. Up to 900,000 of 2.5 million applicants received aid based on duplicate or invalid Social Security numbers, or false addresses and names, congressional investigators found.
"Everything that we have found ... confirms exactly the indictment of the House Republicans," Sen. Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut, that committee's top Democrat, said Sunday. "It's shocking and it is unsettling."
Excerpts released from the House report, which issued a total of 90 separate findings, spreads the blame through all levels of government.
Among its conclusions:
Late decisions by New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin and Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco to issue mandatory evacuations in the New Orleans area led to deaths and prolonged suffering.
The White House was unable to effectively sort through conflicting reports about levee breaches and other disaster developments, preventing rapid relief.
The Federal Emergency Management Agency suffered from a lack of trained and experienced personnel.
Military assistance was invaluable, but the military failed to coordinate with state, local and other federal assistance organizations.
Government officials at all levels failed to take into account lessons learned from a 2004 fictional storm exercise, dubbed Hurricane Pam, that was supposed to specifically test the region's readiness.
The House investigation criticized Chertoff's actions, saying his overall responsibilities for the federal disaster relief were fulfilled "either late, ineffectively or not at all."
The special report concluded that Chertoff unnecessarily delayed naming a top federal coordinator for relief efforts and the activation of an internal disaster management group. More prompt action by Chertoff would have quickened the relief effort, the report said.
The House report also faulted Chertoff for not following a response plan specifically for catastrophic disasters.
In blistering testimony Friday, former FEMA director Michael Brown said Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff had marginalized the agency's role in the Homeland Security Department, which he said was focused more on fighting terrorism than preparing and responding to natural disasters. (Full story)
In an interview Sunday, the department's deputy secretary, Michael Jackson, called Brown's testimony "an unconscionable misrepresentation" and said the former FEMA chief was disgruntled with having to report to Chertoff instead of directly to President Bush.
Chertoff "trusted his incident commander," Jackson said. "What we saw Friday was an acknowledgment by the incident commander that he had betrayed that trust and blatantly disregarded his obligations to his boss and responsibilities."
An investigator who helped write the House report said Sunday that Chertoff was no more to blame for the sluggish response than other government authorities.
Chertoff on Monday is announcing wide-ranging changes to the disaster-response agency,
The Federal Emergency Management Agency reforms that Chertoff was unveiling range from a full-time response force of 1,500 new employees to establishing a more reliable system to report on disasters as they unfold.
White House spokesman Trent Duffy said Bush was "engaged and fully involved in the response efforts," noting that the president declared Katrina a disaster before the storm hit and make a personal plea for citizens to evacuate.
"He knew full well the danger of the storm and the threat it posed," Duffy said Sunday night. "But when he wasn't satisfied, he was the first to stand up and take responsibility."
The special House panel, chaired by Rep. Tom Davis, R-Virginia, was boycotted by Democratic leaders who called for an independent inquiry of the government's failings similar to that of the 9/11 commission that investigated the September 11, 2001 terror attacks.
But two Democrats who participated in the House inquiry, while widely praising the draft report, said it should have called for removing Chertoff from his job.
"The Department of Homeland Security needs new and more experienced leadership," said Reps. Charlie Melancon and William Jefferson, both of Louisiana.
Details of the House findings were first reported in Sunday's editions of The Washington Post.
Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. |
source: CNN.com
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CJ Cregg
Commodore
Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 1254
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| Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:50 pm |
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No big surprise here then 
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
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Location: The Other Side
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| Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:52 am |
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When the powers-that-were decided not to make the levee and canal systems capable of withstanding the worst nature could throw at them, at that moment they became responsible for what happended. There should have been plans, equipment and people ready to deal with the consequences.
Authority and responsibility go together.
Not only that, but the people living there knew the situation and chose to stay (not just when the storm hit, but in the years before that). They also should have had a plan and the proper equipment. This was something "everyone knew would happen", for years.
This country was not made great by helpless ninnies who sat around whining about how the government wasn't doing enough. And it will not remain great if we give in to such folk.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
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Location: United States of America
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| Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:13 pm |
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| Quote: | Senators Blast Chertoff Over Katrina Response
House Releases Report Highly Critical of Disaster Preparedness Ahead of Storm
By LARA JAKES JORDAN, AP
WASHINGTON (Feb. 15) -- The Republican and Democratic leaders of a Senate committee chastized Homeland Security Director Michael Chertoff on Wednesday as a congressional inquiry found that thousands of Hurricane Katrina's victims could have been spared though better planning and faster action.
For his part, Chertoff acknowledged missteps on his watch, "many lapses" and said he accepted responsibility. He called the storm "one of the most difficult and traumatic experiences of my life."
Chertoff, on the job for one year today, drew sharp criticism from both the chairwoman and senior Democrat on the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs.
The Department of Homeland Security's performance in responding to the hurricane "must be judged a failure," said the panel's chairwoman, Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine.
She called it "late, uncertain and ineffective."
Sen. Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut, the panel's top Democrat, criticized Chertoff for going to Atlanta for an unrelated conference on Aug. 30, the day after the storm roared ashore.
"How could you go to bed that night (Aug. 29) not knowing what was going on in New Orleans?" Lieberman asked.
Lieberman said that under Chertoff's oversight, disaster workers "ran around like Keystone cops, uncertain about what they were supposed to do or uncertain how to do it."
Collins told Chertoff "I remain perplexed" about his decision to designate Michael Brown, then chairman of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, as point man on coordinating the government's response to Katrina.
Brown, widely criticized for his performance, resigned under pressure soon after. He later accused others in the administration, including White House officials and Chertoff, of dragging their feet and ignoring his warnings of widespread flooding in New Orleans the storm hit.
Chertoff said there was "no reason to doubt his commitment."
"If I knew then what I know now about Mr. Brown's agenda, I would have done something different," Chertoff added.
He reiterated earlier statements that he did not realize that levees in New Orleans had been breached on the day of the storm -- despite Brown's claims to the contrary.
"When I went to bed, it was my belief ... that actually the storm had not done the worst that could be imagined," Chertoff said.
Collins told Chertoff that "you did seem curiously disengaged to me" when he attended at conference on Avian flu in Atlanta on Aug. 30, instead of rushing to the storm scene.
A House inquiry titled "A Failure of Initiative," which was being released Wednesday, concluded that much of the death and suffering might have been avoided if the government had heeded lessons from the 2001 terror attacks and taken a more proactive stance toward disaster preparedness.
But from President Bush on down to local officials there was largely a reactive posture to the catastrophic Aug. 29 storm -- even when faced with early warnings about its deadly potential.
"The preparation for and response to Hurricane Katrina should disturb all Americans," said the 520-page report, written by a Republican-dominated special House committee chaired by Rep. Tom Davis, R-Va., and obtained Tuesday night by The Associated Press.
"Passivity did the most damage," it said. "The failure of initiative cost lives, prolonged suffering, and left all Americans justifiably concerned our government is no better prepared to protect its people than it was before 9/11, even if we are."
The hard-hitting findings allocated blame to state and local authorities and concluded that the federal government's single largest failure was in not recognizing Katrina's likely consequences as it approached. That could have prompted a mobilization of federal assets for a post-storm evacuation of a flooded New Orleans, the report said, meaning aid "would have arrived several days earlier."
It also found that Bush could have speeded the response by becoming involved in the crisis earlier and says he was not receiving guidance from a disaster specialist who would have understood the scope of the storm's destruction.
"Earlier presidential involvement might have resulted in a more effective response," the inquiry concluded.
White House spokesman Allen Abney declined to comment Tuesday night. On Monday, White House homeland security adviser Frances Fragos Townsend said Bush was "fully involved" in Washington's preparations and response to Katrina.
Katrina left more than 1,300 people dead in Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama, hundreds of thousands homeless and tens of billions of dollars worth of damage. Bush has accepted responsibility for the federal government's shortfalls, but the storm response continues to generate finger-pointing.
Associated Press writers Douglass K. Daniel and Hope Yen contributed to this report.
02/15/06 13:20 EST
Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. |
They failed at being prepared... That's easy to say when it's all over. Having never had to handle anything of this magnitude, how were they supposed to know what to have ready? Were there missteps? Absolutely. Did things move to slow? Def. But how can you fault them for their preparedness?
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teya
Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 423
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| Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:29 pm |
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^ Because anyone involved in disaster planning knows the basics. It's not rocket science. Hurricane preparedness is actually easier than some disasters because you can *see* it coming (unlike an earthquake or a terrorist attack). You have a rough track provided, and regular updates. The NHC was incredibly accurate in predicting Katrina's landfall, and for over 48 hours before the storm hit were predicting a landfall dead-on New Orleans.
The Feds were asked for help on Saturday by state and local officials. They should have had men, equipment and supplies positioned at the perimeter to go in immediately after.
Said it on August 31, repeating it today.
Yes, Katrina was a huge disaster. That's why it should have been apparent from the beginning that it was going to be more than state and local resources could handle. The federal government moved too little, too late, and people died.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:37 pm |
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I don't disagree that the reaction was a phenomenal failure.
What I disagree with is the "Monday Morning Quarterbacking". ie, 'Tom Brady shouldn't have thrown to Deion Branch and had the ball intercepted when Troy Brown was standing wide open.'
Some things you just don't know until it's too late. And something like this, never having happened... You can prepare and prepare and practice, etc..., (which they apparently didn't do), but you can't know until you face the situation.
The ball was dropped, def. It's JMO, though, that it was several small cracks that caused this massive breakdown, and that one person/group, etc... cannot be held accountable for it all. They want someone to blame, just as the article said. Bush said to go ahead and blame him. That's more than anyone else I've seen thus far. All we can do now is find out what went wrong in all of those "cracks", and fix it.
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Some of us fall by the wayside
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And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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teya
Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 423
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| Wed Feb 15, 2006 3:01 pm |
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| Theresa wrote: | | Some things you just don't know until it's too late. And something like this, never having happened... |
They predicted *exactly* what happened during the Hurrican Pam "war game" a year before. Can you imagine what the guys who put that scenario together were thinking? I saw one of 'em interviewed on the same day Brown and Chertoff were claiming that they didn't know there were people in the Convention Center--even though the media had been reporting it for over 24 hours.
The scientist was in *tears*. Because during that test a year prior, the folks from the Bush administration, from FEMA and Homeland Security, were goofing on the whole thing. They did not take it seriously.
Maybe they couldn't *believe* something like this would happen, but it was well within the realm of possibility. The levees were designed and built to withstand a Cat 3. Storm surge models predicted a Cat 4 or 5 would inundate New Orleans because of catastrophic failure of the levees. It was predicted years ago. National Geographic published it at least a year before Katrina. The worst-case-scenario was not a secret.
I do disaster planning. In the event of a disaster in LA, I'm a first responder. I have some professional experience here.
I am also a member of the Federal Mortuary Team--the folks who go in after disasters to collect and process remains. I sat glued to the internet, radio, phone, and television in the days leading up to and following Katrina because I knew it likely I'd be called (fortunately, the death toll was less than expected and they didn't need as many of us) and I wanted every last bit of information available as to what I'd be facing.
According to federal spokespeople, both then and now, I knew more by watching TV than federal officials did. Which is either a lie or shows them to be even more incompetent than I want to believe.
The first thing in any "war room" in a disaster is someone to monitor the media. Because you need every bit of information to function efficiently. Apparently our federal government wasn't doing that. A shame. Lives were lost because of a very fundamental failure.
Monday morning quarterbacking? Call it that if you will. But, my "quarterbacking" at least has the benefit of *experience* in disasters, which is more than the folks the President put in charge had.
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Theresa
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Location: United States of America
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| Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:08 pm |
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Apparently I'm not making myself clear, or you're not understanding me. Fine. I'll leave it at that, then.
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teya
Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 423
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| Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:24 pm |
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^ Well, that's not exactly the way to discuss something, is it?
You say there are cracks in the system that need to be fixed.
How do you fix them, if to identify them is to be accused of "monday-morning quarterbacking"?
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Theresa
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Location: United States of America
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| Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:26 pm |
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Sometimes I'm not quite able to articulate what it is I want to say. At such times, I simply stop trying. This is one of those times.
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Some of us fall by the wayside
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And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Link, the Hero of Time
Vice Admiral
Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 5581
Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:38 am |
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I figured since this is a topic about Katrina I'd post this here instead of making a new topic.
| Quote: | Video shows Bush got explicit Katrina warning
President, Chertoff were clearly told of storm�s dangers numerous times
WASHINGTON - In dramatic and sometimes agonizing terms, federal disaster officials warned President Bush and his homeland security chief before Hurricane Katrina struck that the storm could breach levees, put lives at risk in New Orleans� Superdome and overwhelm rescuers, according to confidential video footage.
Bush didn�t ask a single question during the final briefing before Katrina struck on Aug. 29, but he assured soon-to-be-battered state officials: �We are fully prepared.�
The footage � along with seven days of transcripts of briefings obtained by The Associated Press � show in excruciating detail that while federal officials anticipated the tragedy that unfolded in New Orleans and elsewhere along the Gulf Coast, they were fatally slow to realize they had not mustered enough resources to deal with the unprecedented disaster.
Story continues below ↓ advertisement
Linked by video, Bush�s confidence on Aug. 28 starkly contrasts with the dire warnings his disaster chief and a cacophony of federal, state and local officials provided during the four days before the storm.
Brown�s fears voiced
A top hurricane expert voiced �grave concerns� about the levees and then-Federal Emergency Management Agency chief Michael Brown told the president and Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff that he feared there weren�t enough disaster teams to help evacuees at the Superdome.
New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, a critic of the administration�s Katrina response, said, �You know, from this tape it looks like everybody was fully aware.�
Some of the footage and transcripts from briefings on Aug. 25-31 conflict with the defenses that federal, state and local officials have made in trying to deflect blame and minimize the political fallout from the failed Katrina response:
* Homeland Security officials have said the �fog of war� blinded them early on to the magnitude of the disaster. But the video and transcripts show federal and local officials discussed threats clearly, reviewed long-made plans and understood Katrina would wreak devastation of historic proportions. �I�m sure it will be the top 10 or 15 when all is said and done,� the National Hurricane Center�s Max Mayfield warned the day Katrina lashed the Gulf Coast.
�I don�t buy the �fog of war� defense,� Brown told the AP in an interview Wednesday. �It was a fog of bureaucracy.�
* Bush declared four days after the storm, �I don�t think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees� that gushed deadly floodwaters into New Orleans. But the transcripts and video show there was plenty of talk about that possibility � and Bush was worried too.
White House deputy chief of staff Joe Hagin, Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco and Brown discussed fears of a levee breach the day the storm hit.
�I talked to the president twice today, once in Crawford and then again on Air Force One,� Brown said. �He�s obviously watching the television a lot, and he had some questions about the Dome, he�s asking questions about reports of breaches.�
* Louisiana officials angrily blamed the federal government for not being prepared, but the transcripts show they were still praising FEMA as the storm roared toward the Gulf Coast and even two days afterward. �I think a lot of the planning FEMA has done with us the past year has really paid off,� Col. Jeff Smith, Louisiana�s emergency preparedness deputy director, said during the Aug. 28 briefing.
It wasn�t long before Smith and other state officials sounded overwhelmed.
�We appreciate everything that you all are doing for us, and all I would ask is that you realize that what�s going on and the sense of urgency needs to be ratcheted up,� Smith said Aug. 30.
Pleas for help in Mississippi
Mississippi begged for more attention in that same briefing.
�We know that there are tens or hundreds of thousands of people in Louisiana that need to be rescued, but we would just ask you, we desperately need to get our share of assets because we�ll have people dying � not because of water coming up, but because we can�t get them medical treatment in our affected counties,� said a Mississippi state official whose name was not mentioned on the tape.
Video footage of the Aug. 28 briefing, the final one before Katrina struck, showed an intense Brown voicing concerns from the government�s disaster operation center and imploring colleagues to do whatever was necessary to help victims.
�We�re going to need everything that we can possibly muster, not only in this state and in the region, but the nation, to respond to this event,� Brown warned. He called the storm �a bad one, a big one� and implored federal agencies to cut through red tape to help people, bending rules if necessary.
Brown: �Just let them yell at me�
�Go ahead and do it,� Brown said. �I�ll figure out some way to justify it. ... Just let them yell at me.�
Bush appeared from a narrow, windowless room at his vacation ranch in Texas, with his elbows on a table. Hagin was sitting alongside him. Neither asked questions in the Aug. 28 briefing.
�I want to assure the folks at the state level that we are fully prepared to not only help you during the storm, but we will move in whatever resources and assets we have at our disposal after the storm,� the president said.
Story continues below ↓ advertisement
A relaxed Chertoff, sporting a polo shirt, weighed in from Washington at Homeland Security�s operations center. He would later fly to Atlanta, outside of Katrina�s reach, for a bird flu event.
Missed opportunity seen on tape
One snippet captures a missed opportunity on Aug. 28 for the government to have dispatched active-duty military troops to the region to augment the National Guard.
Chertoff: �Are there any DOD assets that might be available? Have we reached out to them?�
Brown: �We have DOD assets over here at EOC (emergency operations center). They are fully engaged. And we are having those discussions with them now.�
Chertoff: �Good job.�
In fact, active duty troops weren�t dispatched until days after the storm. And many states� National Guards had yet to be deployed to the region despite offers of assistance, and it took days before the Pentagon deployed active-duty personnel to help overwhelmed Guardsmen.
The National Hurricane Center�s Mayfield told the final briefing before Katrina struck that storm models predicted minimal flooding inside New Orleans during the hurricane but he expressed concerns that counterclockwise winds and storm surges afterward could cause the levees at Lake Pontchartrain to be overrun.
�I don�t think any model can tell you with any confidence right now whether the levees will be topped or not but that is obviously a very, very grave concern,� Mayfield told the briefing.
Other officials expressed concerns about the large number of New Orleans residents who had not evacuated.
�They�re not taking patients out of hospitals, taking prisoners out of prisons and they�re leaving hotels open in downtown New Orleans. So I�m very concerned about that,� Brown said.
Despite the concerns, it ultimately took days for search and rescue teams to reach some hospitals and nursing homes.
NBC EXCLUSIVE: BRIAN WILLIAMS INTERVIEWS MICHAEL BROWN
* Part I: I was �left on the battlefield�
* Part II: On being qualified for FEMA
Brown questioned Superdome safety
Brown also told colleagues one of his top concerns was whether evacuees who went to the New Orleans Superdome � which became a symbol of the failed Katrina response � would be safe and have adequate medical care.
�The Superdome is about 12 feet below sea level.... I don�t know whether the roof is designed to stand, withstand a Category Five hurricane,� he said.
Brown also wanted to know whether there were enough federal medical teams in place to treat evacuees and the dead in the Superdome.
�Not to be (missing) kind of gross here,� Brown interjected, �but I�m concerned� about the medical and mortuary resources �and their ability to respond to a catastrophe within a catastrophe.�
� 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11627394/?GT1=7850
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If this is true, this sheads a whole new light on where the failures in the system were.
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LightningBoy
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Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:07 am |
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Yeah, and Ray Nagin left busses in their lots, and turned hundeds of free am-track trains away. The State and Local governments had the power to evacuate the city. They did not do so. They failed.
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Link, the Hero of Time
Vice Admiral
Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 5581
Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:53 pm |
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hmm... I seem to remember something.... It was a sign on Truman's Desk...
Ah! "The Buck Stops here."
| Harry S. Truman wrote: | | "The President--whoever he is--has to decide. He can't pass the buck to anybody. No one else can do the deciding for him. That's his job." |
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:21 pm |
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The only failure was people deciding to live at a spot under sea level.
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CJ Cregg
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Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 1254
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| Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:47 pm |
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| webtaz99 wrote: | | The only failure was people deciding to live at a spot under sea level. |
Wasnt that the French who decided on the location
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:53 pm |
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| webtaz99 wrote: | | The only failure was people deciding to live at a spot under sea level. |
Excuse me? I lived there.
Its not a matter of choice. Its a matter of where you live your life. Not all people can move to friggin New York.
Try to think before you open your yapper and make yourself look ridiculous.
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LightningBoy
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Joined: 09 Mar 2003
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Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:08 pm |
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| Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | hmm... I seem to remember something.... It was a sign on Truman's Desk...
Ah! "The Buck Stops here."
| Harry S. Truman wrote: | | "The President--whoever he is--has to decide. He can't pass the buck to anybody. No one else can do the deciding for him. That's his job." |
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Oh, yeah, that pothole in the street outside my house...I'm gonna blame that on the president... Moving those busses and trans was not the president's descision. That's state and local control; and it's called dropping the ball, on their behalf.
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:52 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | webtaz99 wrote: | | The only failure was people deciding to live at a spot under sea level. |
Excuse me? I lived there.
Its not a matter of choice. Its a matter of where you live your life. Not all people can move to friggin New York.
Try to think before you open your yapper and make yourself look ridiculous. |
I feel this really should have been a PM.
If you are over 18, you do have a choice. If you are under 18, your parents are responsible.
Did the poeple who got flooded never stop for 3 seconds and ask themselves, "What would happen if a really big hurricane (like "Carla") hit and the levees broke?"
And there are lots of places not far from New Orleans where people got flooded, but didn't stay flooded, because they were above sea level.
If you live in the rain forest, you're going to be rained on.
If you live in the desert, you're going to get hot.
If you live below sea level, you're going to get flooded. And until someone PUMPS the water away, you're going to stay flooded.
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Lord Borg
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Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:39 pm |
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| webtaz99 wrote: | | Founder wrote: | | webtaz99 wrote: | | The only failure was people deciding to live at a spot under sea level. |
Excuse me? I lived there.
Its not a matter of choice. Its a matter of where you live your life. Not all people can move to friggin New York.
Try to think before you open your yapper and make yourself look ridiculous. |
I feel this really should have been a PM.
If you are over 18, you do have a choice. If you are under 18, your parents are responsible.
Did the poeple who got flooded never stop for 3 seconds and ask themselves, "What would happen if a really big hurricane (like "Carla") hit and the levees broke?"
And there are lots of places not far from New Orleans where people got flooded, but didn't stay flooded, because they were above sea level.
If you live in the rain forest, you're going to be rained on.
If you live in the desert, you're going to get hot.
If you live below sea level, you're going to get flooded. And until someone PUMPS the water away, you're going to stay flooded. |
You live where you live. Perhaps you should realize some people cannont afford to move someplace eles? Because some CAN'T. It's not a matter of where someone lives, but it's matter of how it's taken care of. watch the news, It was said city officials could have done better on evactuation. In short, blaming people for living in the spot they live in is not the thing to do.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:12 pm |
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How ignorant....
| webtaz99 wrote: | I feel this really should have been a PM.
I don't care.
If you are over 18, you do have a choice. If you are under 18, your parents are responsible.
No I don't have a choice. Hello? Money is a factor. I don't have the money to move. How exactly am I supposed to do that? Not to mention, I like my home. It isn't my responsibility to keep the pumps working genius. I'm a student in college. That is the local and federal governments job.
Did the poeple who got flooded never stop for 3 seconds and ask themselves, "What would happen if a really big hurricane (like "Carla") hit and the levees broke?"
Yes they did. But our voice means nothing. Especially in a corrupt local government like Louisiana politics. Many people fought for upgrades to the levees.
And there are lots of places not far from New Orleans where people got flooded, but didn't stay flooded, because they were above sea level.
Thats a nice story. It still means nothing.
If you live in the rain forest, you're going to be rained on.
If you live in the desert, you're going to get hot.
If you live below sea level, you're going to get flooded. And until someone PUMPS the water away, you're going to stay flooded. |
Really? If that happens, those are the results? Thanks for the cheap lesson.
I moved out of Louisiana because my home was destroyed. Not everyone there has the oppurtunity or money to leave. So to blame it on us, is just plain ignorant.
I don't blame Bush for this and I'm sickened that Liberals are trying to use me and fellow New Orleans residents' experiance to push their agenda in politics.
The local government screwed up, just as much as Bush did. But to blame the residents is just sick and ignorant.
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:33 pm |
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You will not call other people or their opinions ignorant. I'm not sure how else to say it. If others can present their views without resorting to discourtesy, then you can, as well.
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Fri Mar 03, 2006 11:04 pm |
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Founder, were you in hurricane Katrina. If you were, sorry for whatever losses you had.
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Fri Mar 03, 2006 11:05 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | How ignorant....
| webtaz99 wrote: | I feel this really should have been a PM.
I don't care.
If you are over 18, you do have a choice. If you are under 18, your parents are responsible.
No I don't have a choice. Hello? Money is a factor. I don't have the money to move. How exactly am I supposed to do that? Not to mention, I like my home. It isn't my responsibility to keep the pumps working genius. I'm a student in college. That is the local and federal governments job.
Did the poeple who got flooded never stop for 3 seconds and ask themselves, "What would happen if a really big hurricane (like "Carla") hit and the levees broke?"
Yes they did. But our voice means nothing. Especially in a corrupt local government like Louisiana politics. Many people fought for upgrades to the levees.
And there are lots of places not far from New Orleans where people got flooded, but didn't stay flooded, because they were above sea level.
Thats a nice story. It still means nothing.
If you live in the rain forest, you're going to be rained on.
If you live in the desert, you're going to get hot.
If you live below sea level, you're going to get flooded. And until someone PUMPS the water away, you're going to stay flooded. |
Really? If that happens, those are the results? Thanks for the cheap lesson.
I moved out of Louisiana because my home was destroyed. Not everyone there has the oppurtunity or money to leave. So to blame it on us, is just plain ignorant.
I don't blame Bush for this and I'm sickened that Liberals are trying to use me and fellow New Orleans residents' experiance to push their agenda in politics.
The local government screwed up, just as much as Bush did. But to blame the residents is just sick and ignorant. |
Despite your apparent belief, my remarks are not and never were aimed at you personally.
No matter how difficult it would be to move away from a below-sea-level area, wouldn't that be easier than being suddenly driven from the same area, without all your possessions, and with your former domicile destroyed? And wouldn't the tribulation of moving away beforehand be compensated by not having to go through the flood and its consequences?
And although very few could leave instantly, the threat of a huge hurricane overflowing and wrecking the levees has been around for decades. And the lack of action by the federal, state, and local governments should have been a sign that they had already written off the low-lying areas.
Yes, the govenments at several levels "screwed up". But are we mere cattle, led by the nose from birth to grave, or Americans - strong, resourceful, and not only willing but insisting on standing on our own two feet?
I grew up in a town between Galveston and Houston. And I remember my father getting a map from the county showing the elevation of the property before he signed. He (apparently rightly) figured that no storm surge would be able to soak a foundation 26 miles from the coast and 23 feet above sea level.
-------signature-------
"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:08 pm |
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| webtaz99 wrote: | Despite your apparent belief, my remarks are not and never were aimed at you personally.
No matter how difficult it would be to move away from a below-sea-level area, wouldn't that be easier than being suddenly driven from the same area, without all your possessions, and with your former domicile destroyed? And wouldn't the tribulation of moving away beforehand be compensated by not having to go through the flood and its consequences?
And although very few could leave instantly, the threat of a huge hurricane overflowing and wrecking the levees has been around for decades. And the lack of action by the federal, state, and local governments should have been a sign that they had already written off the low-lying areas.
Yes, the govenments at several levels "screwed up". But are we mere cattle, led by the nose from birth to grave, or Americans - strong, resourceful, and not only willing but insisting on standing on our own two feet?
I grew up in a town between Galveston and Houston. And I remember my father getting a map from the county showing the elevation of the property before he signed. He (apparently rightly) figured that no storm surge would be able to soak a foundation 26 miles from the coast and 23 feet above sea level. |
I know they weren't aimed at me personally. But I was part of what happened. Everything you're saying isn't answering what I'm saying. When it comes down to it, money is the problem. A lot of people don't have the money to move. So you can keep trying to blame us, but it's not changing anything. We dont have the money. I didn't. My parents didnt. Thanks to God, we were able to leave during the whole fiasco. Others couldn't.
Thats great that your father had a choice and money to move to where he wanted to. Others don't.
I will agree that the government abandoned us, but there isn't much we can do about it. Thats why the government is paying through the teeth for it now.
| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | You will not call other people or their opinions ignorant. I'm not sure how else to say it. If others can present their views without resorting to discourtesy, then you can, as well. |
How biased of you. As usual.
| WeAz wrote: | | Founder, were you in hurricane Katrina. If you were, sorry for whatever losses you had. |
I wasn't in it exactly, or at least, during it. I have family in Texas, so we ran over here. My home was destroyed by it. Which is why I get angry when people actually blame us for it.
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