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CJ Cregg
Commodore
Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 1254
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 Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:19 pm Abuse in Iraq (Abu Ghraib, US, UK, All here, plz) |
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| Quote: | 'Abuse' Video Released
An urgent investigation into a video that appears to show British troops beating helpless Iraqi teenagers.
In the film, soldiers get four youths in headlocks and take them into an Army compound, kicking, punching and hitting them with batons. One can be heard pleading for mercy.
Pictures have been published in the News Of The World, which says 42 blows were counted in one minute.
The person filming the violence can be heard egging the soldiers on, laughing and shouting: "Oh yes! Oh yes! You're gonna get it," and: "Naughty little boy."
It is thought the tape - filmed during street riots in Basra in 2004 - had been screened at the troops' base before being handed over by a whistleblower.
Prime Minister Tony Blair has said he takes any such allegations seriously and they will be investigated fully.
An MoD spokesman said: "We are aware of these very serious allegations and can confirm they are now the subject of an urgent Royal Military Police investigation.
"We condemn all acts of abuse and brutality and always treat any allegations of wrongdoing extremely seriously.
"Over 80,000 servicemen and women have served in Iraq since military operations began. Only a tiny minority are alleged to have been involved in incidents of deliberate abuse."
Three British soldiers were jailed and thrown out of the Army last year for abusing prisoners at an aid camp in Iraq.
However, in a separate case, pictures allegedly showing abuse by UK troops published in the Daily Mirror were later found to be fake.
Video Report - Click Here |
Last edited by CJ Cregg on Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Feb 12, 2006 3:49 pm |
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Don't think such videos should be released, but if this WAS abuse (which is rare), then they should be punished for it.
Cohersive interrogation is fine, but abuse? May be better than torture, but not good at all.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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CJ Cregg
Commodore
Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 1254
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| Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:27 pm |
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This clearly is abuse, taking teenages from a crowd and then beating the s*** out of them.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:27 pm |
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Well, then, yeah. They need to get punished, no doubt about it.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:06 am |
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Reality Check!
These guys weren't just picked at random and dragged away from their games of checkers. These punks were part of a riot, and it's reasonable to think that they were among the instigators.
If these punks were manly enough to be part of a riot, then they were manly enough to "get the @#*% beat out of them". They're lucky they weren't just shot.
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"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:15 pm |
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That is a good point, but so much force? I don't know...
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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CJ Cregg
Commodore
Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 1254
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| Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:26 pm |
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If you see the footage the soldiers beat them with sticks, kick them while there on the floor, head butt them.
That IS abuse, we should be above this barbaric behaviour
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:35 pm |
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They should have restrained them in another way--agreed.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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CJ Cregg
Commodore
Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 1254
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| Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:10 pm |
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| Quote: | New Abuse Pics Emerge from Abu Ghraib
Updated: 13:45, Wednesday February 15, 2006
This is alleged to be one of several shocking new abuse pictures that have emerged from Iraq.
The first shows an American soldier kneeling on top of a naked Iraqi prisoner.
Next to him is a what appears to be a pool of blood or excrement. Others show prisoners being beaten and humiliated.
The images were shown by the Australian TV news channel SBS.
It said they were taken at the same time as previous abuse pictures that emerged from the notorious Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad.
It said the pictures proved the abuse by US soldiers was much more widespread than had previously been thought.
"These images reveal further widespread abuse including new incidents of homicide, torture and sexual humiliation," said the Australian channel.]
"The extent of the abuse shown in the photos suggests that the torture and abuse that occurred at Abu Ghraib in 2004 is much worse than is currently understood."
Other photographs showed a naked man hanging upside down from a bunk bed and another apparently being threatened by a dog. Another man displayed what looked to be burn marks on his left forearm.
Other pictures allegedly depict one man with his throat cut, another with massive head injuries and a third covered in what could be faeces.
Their release comes amid fury in the Muslim world, where anti-Western sentiment is raging over cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed.
Tension is already high in southern Iraq after British squaddies were filmed beating Iraqi rioters.
Publication of the original series of photographs provoked outrage around the world.
Last month, President Bush said of the first Abu Ghraib photos: "There's no question ... we were disgraced.
"Equally importantly, it gave the enemy an incredible propaganda tool."
Images |
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Captain.Dan V2
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| Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:43 am |
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I actually think these images should not have been published since I believe we were at war at the time and Suicide attacks were common.
| Quote: | 2004 February - More than 100 killed in Irbil in suicide attacks on offices of main Kurdish factions.
2004 March - Suicide bombers attack Shia festival-goers in Karbala and Baghdad, killing 140 people.
2004 April/May - Shia militias loyal to radical cleric Moqtada Sadr take on coalition forces.
Hundreds are reported killed in fighting during the month-long US military siege of the Sunni Muslim city of Falluja.
Photographic evidence emerges of abuse of Iraqi prisoners by US troops.
Sovereignty and elections
2004 June - US hands sovereignty to interim government headed by Prime Minister Iyad Allawi.
Saddam Hussein transferred to Iraqi legal custody.
2004 August - Fighting in Najaf between US forces and Shia militia of radical cleric Moqtada Sadr.
2004 November - Major US-led offensive against insurgents in Falluja. |
A timeline I got from BBC news.
There are suicide attacks, Bombers and an American offensices going on in that year and then you have these punks starting riots, Like the armed forces needs that sort of crap. There is no way that the newspapers should have published that its a disgrace, Its demorilizing to the troops and its stirring up more trouble.
100 British troops have died since we went to Iraq, I am willing to bet that number will dramatically increase in the coming weeks because of those images.
Hhhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmm the prisoners of war being abused.... Who cares ? They would have done much much worse to a US or British prisoner.
There are people who were 'abused' and want compensation from the MoD, Is that not the biggest joke you've ever heard ?
If they actually get compensation its a disgrace because it was war it is also in a way still a war. When were all enjoying our freedom our troops are constantly worried about military attacks, Bombers and god knows what else. Now they have to worry about these pictures, Isn't that just a bit unfair ? They go out there to do their jobs and there supported by the media but the moment they can get a story they think they can sell they turn their backs on our troops how very UnBritisth.
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Seven of Nine
Sammie's Mammy
Joined: 16 Jun 2001
Posts: 7871
Location: North East England
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| Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:43 pm |
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I care.
How can we go into a country, say we're going to bring democracy and make their lives better, and then abuse the people who live there?
We're meant to be civilised, but we sometimes act worse than animals.
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Captain.Dan V2
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Location: My own little world
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| Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:56 pm |
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Thats because some countries are filled with animals.
If were going in to help them how come they start riots and make us helping them difficulter ?
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:16 pm |
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I'm only going to say this once: you WILL not generalize about others, that includes entire countries. The number of people who are insurgents/suicide bombers only make up a very small percent of the population.
People are not animals. By attacking others (innocent or not) we make ourselves no better than the people we are trying to stop.
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:22 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: |
People are not animals. By attacking others (innocent or not) we make ourselves no better than the people we are trying to stop. |
I was hoping I'd read that wrong... Wow.
(people being animals)
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Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Captain.Dan V2
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| Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:09 am |
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Perhaps I should clafify, I did put it badly....
By animals I mean't that humans in general are animals however I mean't that certain people show their animalistic instincts and actions more than others (For example in Vietnam the North of Vietnam had some animals in its armies).
I understand how racists and nasty it must have sounded, However I didn't mean it like how you get people who called Thierry Henry a monkey, That was just nasty I mean't it as in an animalistic actions.
Is that explained well ? I dunno.
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magenta
Commander
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 404
Location: AUSTRALIA
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| Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:38 am |
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 I believe if a war is happening it doesnt mean that the soldiers turn into 'pack animals' and go to town on the people they arrest!
Sure they encounter some crazy and out of control people who themselves have done horrific things.
But just for their 'amusement' and to show how much a 'hero' they are savage people in their custody!
YES we are supossed to be an 'intelligent' and 'civilised' race in the year 2006,is this the example of what the world is turning into? 
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Captain.Dan V2
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| Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:10 am |
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Dude these people the troops are fighting savages. There are 1300 British troops that have been sent home because of their mental state after having been in Iraq and they weren't even given a second look by the government and yet these people who want compensation and who are going to the newspapers are getting everything they want. Tell me how intelligent we are for giving the enemy more attention and support than we are giving our own troops ?
Also I'd like to point out that our troops are heros because there doing a job that most people wouldn't want to do, There fighting and dying. If there doing it for their own amusement so what ? I can't say I'm suprised though because the TV is crap and theres nothing to watch so they find there amusement elsewhere.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:58 am |
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Captain.Dan V2 I see what you're trying to say. I agree that its ridiculous that Liberals complain about the treatment of terrorists, but not of our soldiers or the innocents who get captured by terrorist. THEY will show you torture, I assure you.
With that being said, I can see why people are complaining about the torture. I think its wrong too. No, not because I support terrorists like SOME people, but because we're the US. We can't be doing this stuff. We went to liberate the Iraqis from torture, not show them Uncle Sam's version of it. We simply should not being doing that. We're a nation of laws, not torturers and murders like under Saddam. Not to mention that a few of the Iraqis, and thats FEW(Liberals pretend like its the entire encampment), tend ot be innocent. What about those innocent people? Not a very happy person when he or she returns to Iraq.
Not to mention, its one thing to be hard on a prisoner, but to put them in nude homosexual triangles? To put a barking and angry dog right in their face to scare them? To force them to hang upside down for hours? That maybe tame stuff compared to Saddam, but still, it isn't right. That surpasses tought questioning and is now just cruelty.
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Captain.Dan V2
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| Sat Feb 18, 2006 5:06 am |
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| Founder wrote: | Captain.Dan V2 I see what you're trying to say. I agree that its ridiculous that Liberals complain about the treatment of terrorists, but not of our soldiers or the innocents who get captured by terrorist. THEY will show you torture, I assure you.
With that being said, I can see why people are complaining about the torture. I think its wrong too. No, not because I support terrorists like SOME people, but because we're the US. We can't be doing this stuff. We went to liberate the Iraqis from torture, not show them Uncle Sam's version of it. We simply should not being doing that. We're a nation of laws, not torturers and murders like under Saddam. Not to mention that a few of the Iraqis, and thats FEW(Liberals pretend like its the entire encampment), tend ot be innocent. What about those innocent people? Not a very happy person when he or she returns to Iraq.
Not to mention, its one thing to be hard on a prisoner, but to put them in nude homosexual triangles? To put a barking and angry dog right in their face to scare them? To force them to hang upside down for hours? That maybe tame stuff compared to Saddam, but still, it isn't right. That surpasses tought questioning and is now just cruelty. |
Dude I'm British but I do see what you mean.
Granted the way the prisoners were treated was bad, That dog thing was rather cruel but still if their in jail it could be for something really bad. Plus it was war and so I don't actually think the pictures should have been published. What happens in the battlefield should stay on the battlefield.
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Founder
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| Sat Feb 18, 2006 5:09 am |
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I never said you were American or non-British my friend. 
Well I do agree that the images were bad and hurt us. American and British alike or rather, it hurt the soldiers and the civilians that the terrorists kidnapped.
I understand that they are in jail, but that doesn't mean we have to become animals to fight the animals. Also, like I said, there were some innocent people in the mix.
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Captain.Dan V2
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| Sat Feb 18, 2006 5:18 am |
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Thats true I suppose, Innocent people should be thought of to which I'll admit I wasn't thinking about them.
I still don't see anything wrong with the troops doing what they did (Even if I find it slightly wierd).
I think it is seriously time we cut our loses and bring the troops out of Iraq, We've done what we set out to do. We topled Suddam, Theres a new government in place. Let them deal with it. After all how on Earth are they going to become independant if they've constantly got foriegn troops there to bail them out when theres a riot or a terror attack.
Personally I believe that the British and Americans alike should withdraw all of their armed forces from foriegn soil and bring them home where they belong.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sat Feb 18, 2006 5:20 am |
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The new government is not ready to stand alone. If we leave, we leave them to die.
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Captain.Dan V2
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Joined: 06 May 2005
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| Sat Feb 18, 2006 5:25 am |
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But if we stay there is gonna be more of our troops dying and there is gonna be more of these pictures.
I am afriad I don't see how that concerns us though ? Suddam is gone.
Granted if the new government topples then a new Suddam will be put in place.
But why should we stay ?
What we are getting out of this is a headache. The MoD may have to hand out compensation to people hundreds or thousands of miles away, Our troops are getting slated (And mental health problems) and to me it just doesn't seem worth it, The country is always going to have trouble with rebels and terrorists because of its past and the fact there are so many places for terrorists to hide.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sat Feb 18, 2006 5:28 am |
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Well to be honest, its a little to late to just be like "Damn....well...didn't quite work out. We're gonna go..."
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Captain.Dan V2
*Currently Banned*
Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 1588
Location: My own little world
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| Sat Feb 18, 2006 5:29 am |
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lol.
I suppose so but its all getting ridicously out of hand, Blair and Bush never created an exit plan for us and so our troops are stuck there while Blair and Bush are making it up as they go along.
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