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CJ Cregg
Commodore
Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 1254
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 Tue Feb 14, 2006 3:07 pm Uk Public Smoking Ban |
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| Quote: | Pub Smoking Ban Backed
Updated: 19:46, Tuesday February 14, 2006
MPs have voted emphatically to ban smoking in pubs and private members' clubs.
Some 384 MPs voted for the ban with 184 going against the motion.
Tony Blair, Chancellor Gordon Brown and Health Secretary Patricia Hewitt backed a complete ban.
MPs were presented with three options: They included a blanket ban on smoking in all pubs and clubs; a partial ban, exempting licensed premises that do not serve food and private members' clubs - the Government's preferred option; and a ban on pubs but not members' clubs.
The vote came early in a nervy week for Tony Blair, starting with the vote on compulsory ID cards. The Government won with a majority of 31, despite a revolt by 20 Labour MPs.
Health campaigners had warned that anything short of a total ban would heighten health inequalities but some ministers fear outright prohibition would alienate many core Labour supporters.
Premises which ignore the new laws will face a maximum fine of �2,500. Public Health Minister Caroline Flint revealed the measure, which had initially been set at �200.
Spot fines of �200 will also be introduced for pubs which fail to display no-smoking signs.
If the issue goes to court, the penalty would increase fivefold to �1,000.
The increases followed a consultation which uncovered fears that businesses might be prepared to pay lower fines in order to keep smokers' custom. |
Excellent News, and also by a HUGE majority
Last edited by CJ Cregg on Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:15 pm |
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I disagree with this, even though I think smoking is bad and all that.
I'm skeptical as to whether or not the goverment should regulate smoking beyond public places, but pubs? No.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Superman
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 06 Dec 2003
Posts: 10220
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| Tue Feb 14, 2006 6:05 pm |
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Not sure about this. I am a non-smoker. On the one hand, if it means me breathing cleaner air, I'm all for it. On the other hand, what freedoms will our 'leaders' take away next?
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Tue Feb 14, 2006 6:16 pm |
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I'm also divided. Theoretically, the pubs themselves could decide what they think of smoking and then the people going can choose. But then... shouldn't everyone have a right to clean air? *shrugs* It's kind of a toss up. Especially when it's regarding a pub... so many drinkers like smoking, too.
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Tue Feb 14, 2006 6:33 pm |
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Hmmmm.... Smokeing is a deadly, addictive Product. If they want to take it away from public places, more power to them. It's not fair I should have to breath that crud when I don't smoke
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Feb 14, 2006 6:42 pm |
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Well, consider. This is in pubs, which are basically US bars. It may be public per se, but it's still private industry--and bars, no less. I'm not so sure the government should be getting involved so much in something like this...
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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borgslayer
Rear Admiral
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Posts: 2646
Location: Las Vegas
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| Tue Feb 14, 2006 6:59 pm |
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I think all smoking should be banned from all public places like Restaurants not just pubs or bars. They should also raise the price of a cigarette to $500 a carton.
I am very Anti-Smoking. 
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CJ Cregg
Commodore
Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 1254
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| Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:03 pm |
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Already is. Smoking will be banned in ALL public places.
Where will you be able to smoke?
People will still be able to smoke outdoors, and in private homes, plus places that Ms Hewitt says are "like homes", such as care institutions, army barracks, and prisons.
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:16 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Well, consider. This is in pubs, which are basically US bars. It may be public per se, but it's still private industry--and bars, no less. I'm not so sure the government should be getting involved so much in something like this... |
I have no problem with governments getting involved with things like this. Smoking would be more avail to everyone if it wasnt for govermental intervention
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Superman
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 06 Dec 2003
Posts: 10220
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| Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:26 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Well, consider. This is in pubs, which are basically US bars. It may be public per se, but it's still private industry--and bars, no less. I'm not so sure the government should be getting involved so much in something like this... |
I know where you're coming from, RM. Like I said earlier, I am a non-smoker (never even tried it). However, I'm worried that banning it will set a precedent. How soon before they try to ban fizzy pop in public places, or chocolate? It's not about smoking itself, it's the principle behind it, the fact that our so-called 'leaders' appear to be taking more and more freedoms away.
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CJ Cregg
Commodore
Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 1254
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| Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:01 pm |
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That's just silly. Chocolate isn't gonna damage the health of someone that works in the shop or that walks by you.
Smoking damages peoples health directly and indirectly. People working in a place that allows smoking are going to have their health impacted. The point of this bill is to protect peoples health.
Protects peoples health, helps them give up smoking, creates a new income for the government for fines, reduces cost on NHS for smoking related illnesses.,
The government predicts an estimated 600,000 people will give up smoking as a result of the law change.
If people want to smoke, they can go outside.
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Superman
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 06 Dec 2003
Posts: 10220
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| Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:05 pm |
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| Quote: | | That's just silly. Chocolate isn't gonna damage the health of someone that works in the shop or that walks by you. |
You missed the point. I never said chocolate would damage someone else's health.
What I'm saying is that once governments start legislating smoking, it won't be long before they turn their attention to something like chocolate or fizzy pop. Believe me, it's already been talked about (there was talk awhile back about limiting how much chocolate an adult could buy in a supermarket - thankfully it was dropped).
I don't smoke, I dislike the smell of smoke, but I just fear that by banning smoking in pubs, giovernments are setting a precedent. Before you know it, they've banned something else. I'd love to live in a smoke-free world, but you can't force people to give something up. It's the principle I am arguing against.
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CJ Cregg
Commodore
Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 1254
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| Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:09 pm |
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Well do you support the legalisation of smoking marijuana or cannabis in pubs? Surely people should have the right too by these standards
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:14 pm |
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There are certain drugs that are right to be illegalized. One of them being Marijuana. That shouldn't be smoked anywhere. Difference.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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CJ Cregg
Commodore
Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 1254
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| Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:15 pm |
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Why shouldn't it be legal? It damages your health and influences behavior. Oh like alcohol
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Superman
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 06 Dec 2003
Posts: 10220
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| Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:15 pm |
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I'd consider that a different issue, because of the behavioral effects related to cannabis. It is just my opinion, but I don't think cannabis should be smoked in pubs because of what the behavioral effects could lead to (like a lot of drugs).
I've know of cannabis users becoming paranoid and worse, in a short amount of time. I haven't known too many smokers who quickly change behaviour, so I wouldn't apply the same standards.
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CJ Cregg
Commodore
Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 1254
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| Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:18 pm |
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The health benefits out weigh the "personal freedoms" No one is stopping them smoking, they just cant smoke in certain places. Wanna smoke, go outside.
Also when has precedent ever been used by a government. They don't use precedent. They do what they want when they want.
I'm sure people said the same thing when they banned hand guns, whats next? knifes
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:19 pm |
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Well, if that's so, then maybe that's what happens in the UK, 'cause it sure isn't what happens in the US.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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CJ Cregg
Commodore
Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 1254
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| Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:20 pm |
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We have a totally different type of government.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:23 pm |
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I find it funny that a lot(not all) of the people who are calling for a ban on smoking are the same people that are pro-"choice" or what I like to call, pro-death. If people wish to smoke, then that is their bussiness. I'm not a smoker and I don't plan to, but I won't tell others not to. If they choose to hurt themselves, then so be it. What happened to "Its their right to choose what they want to do with their bodies"? Or does that ideology only fit when you're killing babies, while fighting against the multi-billion dollar businesses that more than likely, support Bush. A coincedence? Hhmm....
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Superman
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 06 Dec 2003
Posts: 10220
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| Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:23 pm |
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| Quote: | | I'm sure people said the same thing when they banned hand guns, whats next? knifes |
Well, I don't like any weapons.
| Quote: | | The health benefits out weigh the "personal freedoms" No one is stopping them smoking, they just cant smoke in certain places. Wanna smoke, go outside |
Understand that my perspective could be different to yours due to where I live. I haven't checked your profile, but I live in England, and I'm fed up with politicians doing what they want, dictating on how we can live our lives. As I said earlier, some politician even mentioned restricting the sale of chocolate in supermarkets. Their proposal was something along the lines of "so much chocolate per adult". Well, that sucks. I'm not a big fan of chocolate, but if I want to buy 100 bars, I should be able to.
With regards to what we've talked about, I'm basing it on my perspective as someone fed up with the governments we've had over the last 30 years. I'd most likely be in favour of such a ban in some of the democractic countries (if they exist, I hear the US and Canada are good at democracy), but I just don't believe the politicians over here can be trusted to get the balance right between personal freedoms and health benefits.
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CJ Cregg
Commodore
Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 1254
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| Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:28 pm |
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I live in Lincolnshire. The vote was a free vote. the MPs could vote how they liked. They voted BY CHOICE for a total ban by a HUGE majority. They werent forced by their party in to any option.
Canada and US better democracties, ha funniest thing ive heard all day.
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Superman
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 06 Dec 2003
Posts: 10220
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| Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:30 pm |
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Well, it's often the faceless bureacrats who run this country.
And I never said US and Canada were better democracies, if you read my post, I said I HEAR the US and Canada are democratic. I didn't say it was a fact.
Last edited by Superman on Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:30 pm |
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Smoking should be banned in public areas. However, I think that in a privately owned business, such as a pub, the owner reserves the right to decide how he wants to handle it.
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Superman
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 06 Dec 2003
Posts: 10220
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| Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:33 pm |
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Well, this has been an interesting debate and I'm glad to see everyone has posted in an articulate manner. I have to go to bed soon, but I do have one request. Don't post too many replies to this topic, because it means I have to catch up tomorrow.
(Just kidding, if I have to read loads and loads of posts to keep up, I will). 
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