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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
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 Mon Feb 06, 2006 5:17 pm |
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Oh, it's their right to say it, no doubt about. And it's our right to disagree, and our right to protest. What's not our right, however, is killing people in that protest.
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Republican_Man
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| Mon Feb 06, 2006 6:31 pm |
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Just watched a Fox News report on this. HORRIFYING what they're doing, but guess what? They draw cartoons of Jews being greedy rulers of the world and all sorts of things. They're preaching tolerance for Islam, yet at these rallies show ABSOLUTELY ZERO TOLERANCE for other religions, such as burning crosses. Frankly, this sickens me.
More stories, as shown below. Horrifying stuff. SOME double standard, eh? You know, these protests aren't helping the efforts of Muslims across the world--good Muslims--to be accepted. It's only HURTING them.
| Quote: | Protests Over Muhammad Caricatures Continue; Four Killed
KABUL, Afghanistan � Afghan troops opened fire on demonstrators Monday, leaving at least four people dead, while Iranian police used tear gas to disperse hundreds of protesters hurling stones and firebombs at the Danish Embassy in Tehran as anger mounted over the publication of caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad.
Police had encircled the walled brick villa housing the Danish mission in the Iranian capital, but the crowd of about 400 protesters ignored orders to break up, only running into a nearby park after tear gas was fired. Earlier in the day, 200 student demonstrators threw stones at the Austrian Embassy, breaking some windows and starting small fires.
The worst of the violence in Afghanistan was outside Bagram, the main U.S. base, with Afghan police firing on some 2,000 protesters as they tried to break into the heavily guarded facility, said Kabir Ahmed, the local government chief.
Two demonstrators were killed and 13 people, including eight police, were injured, he said. No U.S. troops were involved in the clashes, the military said.
Afghan police also fired on protesters in the central city of Mihtarlam after a man in the crowd shot at them and others threw stones and knives, Interior Ministry spokesman Dad Mohammed Rasa said. Two protesters were killed, and three other people were wounded, including two police, officials said. The demonstrators burned tires and threw stones at government offices.
The unrest spread to East Africa as police in Somalia fired in the air to disperse stone-throwing protesters, triggering a stampede in which a teenager was killed and raising to six the number of deaths in protests related to the publication of the series of cartoons satirizing Islam's most revered figure.
At least nine people were injured in the melee outside the Danish Embassy in Iran, which lasted about an hour.
Two trees inside the compound � which was believed to have been evacuated earlier � were set on fire by the firebombs. The embassy gate was burned as was a police booth along the wall protecting the building. The mob, which included about 100 women, burned a Danish flag and chanted "God is great," but they failed to breach the police cordon.
Also Monday, 200 members of Iran's parliament issued a statement warning that those who published the cartoons should remember the case of Salman Rushdie � the British author against whom the late Iranian leader Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini issued a death warrant for his novel "The Satanic Verses."
Lebanon, meanwhile, apologized to Denmark a day after thousands of rampaging Muslim demonstrators set fire to the building housing the Danish mission in Beirut to protest the caricatures. At least one person died, 30 were injured and about 200 people were detained in Sunday's violence, including Syrians, Palestinians and Lebanese, officials said.
The Beirut violence came a day after violent protests in neighboring Syria, including the burning of the Danish and Norwegian missions. The United States accused the Syrian government of backing the protests in Lebanon and Syria, an accusation also made by anti-Syrian Lebanese politicians.
Washington condemned the violence and urged governments to take steps to cool tensions over the 12 caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad that were first published in Denmark's Jyllands-Posten in September and recently reprinted in European and other media.
The drawings � including one depicting the prophet wearing a turban shaped as a bomb with a burning fuse � have touched a raw nerve in part because Islamic law is interpreted to forbid any illustrations of the Prophet Muhammad for fear they could lead to idolatry.
"We understand fully why people, why Muslims, find the cartoons offensive," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said. "Those who disagree with the views that were expressed, certainly have the right to condemn them but they should be peaceful."
U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan, as he entered the opening session a three-day U.N. Environment Program in Dubai, United Arab Emirates, implied publication of the caricatures had been a matter of poor judgment, but added: "In don't think that it justifies the attacks on innocents. I would appeal to all concerned, all people of authority and influence, to engage in dialogue and bring this to an end."
The European Union issued stern reminders to 18 Muslim countries that they are obliged under the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations to protect foreign embassies, and Austria said it had expressed concern for the safety of diplomatic missions to the Organization of the Islamic Conference.
The prime ministers of Spain and Turkey issued a Christian-Muslim appeal for calm, saying "we shall all be the losers if we fail to immediately defuse this situation."
But Turkey's Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul said media freedoms cannot be limitless and that hostility against Muslims was replacing anti-Semitism in the West.
The protesters in Afghanistan threw stones at the U.S. base and smashed a guard post. Some of those in the crowd then shot at the base with assault rifles, prompting the police to return fire, Ahmed said.
U.S. military spokesman, Lt. Mike Cody, said American troops did not fire on the crowd and security was left to the Afghan police.
About 200 protesters also tried to break down the gate of a the Danish government's diplomatic mission office in the capital, Kabul, but failed, said police who were guarding the building.
The protesters then threw stones at the mission and beat some officers guarding it, as well as some guards at a nearby house used by Belgian diplomats.
Police wielding batons and rifle butts dispersed demonstrators walking toward the presidential palace. An Associated Press reporter saw at least three protesters bleeding from injuries, and at least seven more who were arrested and driven away in a police vehicle.
"Long live Islam! We are Muslims! We don't let anyone insult our prophet!" chanted the demonstrators, many of whom appeared to be teenagers. They also chanted, "Down with America!" and slogans against the Afghan and U.S. presidents.
Some protesters moved toward the main American base in city and threw stones that smashed windows of a guard house. Police watched but did not intervene.
U.S. soldiers later arrested two photographers outside the base and checked the memory discs of an AP photographer, but did not arrest him. Cody said he had no details about the matter.
Thousands of other Afghans demonstrated peacefully in at least five other cities.
Several thousand Iraqis rallied in the southern city of Kut, burning Danish, German and Israeli flags, as well as an effigy of Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen, to demand diplomatic and economic ties be severed with countries in which the caricatures were published.
Protesters called for the death of anyone who insults Muhammad and demanded withdrawal of 530-member Danish military contingent operating under British control.
Danish Capt. Philip Ulrichsen said Danish troops were shot at and targeted by stone-throwing youths on Sunday and a roadside bomb was defused, but no soldiers were wounded.
In Somalia, hundreds of protesters threw stones at police and aid workers after a peaceful rally in the northern port city of Bossaso, sparking the stampede in which a teenage boy was killed, said businessman Mohamed Ahmed, a witness. Officials could not be reached for comment.
Melees also broke out during protests in New Delhi and Gaza City, while several thousand students massed peacefully in Cairo on the campus of al-Azhar University, the oldest and most important seat of Sunni Muslim learning in the world, to protest the drawings.
German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said his country would try to use its contacts with Arab countries to cool the violence. "We cannot allow this argument to become a battle between cultures," Steinmeier said.
Source |
Great news, eh? 
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
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Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:18 pm |
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Both sides need to apologise now, since both are in the wrong for even letting it escalate this far. The writer could have been more sensitive, the newspapers could have been more polite, and the Muslims could have been more tolerant of Western infidel ignorance. 
See, we all just get along and no one has to be blown up. :r
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
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| Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:21 pm |
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Slight lol...See, the Danish people did apologize. And btw, this cartoon was made 4 months ago and published 4 months ago. It only came up this past week due to a radical Muslim cleric, so yeah...
Anyways, I'm afraid to say it, but the Danish people who made this cartoon are actually better than these Muslims here...These Muslims are doing horrible things and placing a HUGE double standard on them. So the Muslims can trash Jews and Christians, but these guys can't do the same to them? What's up with that!? (Not that I'm advocating such actions in any way, mind you.)
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
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| Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:35 pm |
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The European newspapers publishing the comic as a show of "journalistic solidarity" didn't help matters much either. :/ They knew they'd make others mad, really.
There is a different between having the freedom of speech and exercising it. This is evident from the phrase, "If you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all." Now, I'm not saying that those newspapers should blithely bow to anyone who gets offended and remove material. But their intentions in publishing the comics were laced with obvious arrogance on their part; they knew that the reaction would be an adverse one yet chose to pursue an entirely tactless course of action.
The Muslims who have reacted extremely, through acts of violence, belie any sort of superiority by supposedly condemning the publishing of such comics, however. (In other words, they aren't any better than those European newspapers.)
It's one of those unfortunate diplomatic misunderstandings that have been amplified by the fact that humans are stupid, idiotic, and stubborn creatures who prefer to argue more than they do reconcile.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
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| Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:40 pm |
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Or it's been amplified by pure hatred 
No, I basically agree with you that they're both incredibly wrong and that the paper should have done better. I just see the reaction as being worse in the sense that it's doing far more physical damage, if you catch my drift, than otherwise--and they're putting forth a double standard--and they're doing things even worse than the cartoons in many respects.
Feel free to disagree, but that's how I see it. It's another example of massive terrorism in response to something like this.
But yeah, both ARE at fault, I agree iwth you there. It wasn't good of them to make this cartoon in the first place. But'cha know? You don't see me running around the streets of Washington attacking the Washington Post building for their cartoon about Rumsfeld, do you? May not have been on the same scale as this religious thing, but it's still quite similar.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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TrekkieMage
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| Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:59 pm |
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I thought this would be relevant:
The cartoon is linked to the Washington Post opinions page, and is by Tom Toles.
My opinion:
The artist should have been a little more respectful, but if he did apologize and attempt to make amends, than he should not be at fault any more. I understand the Muslim's anger, but that does not under any circumstances justify what they did. Their reaction far outstripped the deed. It puts them in a bad light and does not aid their belief.
In a perfect world I think that those who overreacted shoudl appologize, and help rebuild from the damages, and the artist should write a public apology. Then all should be well and good. But it is HIGHLY doubtful that my little fantasy world will ever come to be 
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Republican_Man
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| Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:53 pm |
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Well, I think Toles is actually right on in that cartoon. This coming from a person who doesn't like him at all, especially for his Rumsfeld cartoon.
I agree with you on this one, pretty much in entirety, Trekkie.
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IntrepidIsMe
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| Tue Feb 07, 2006 6:11 pm |
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| Quote: | | (CNN) -- An Iranian newspaper says it is going to hold a competition for cartoons on the Holocaust to test whether the West will apply the same principles of freedom of expression to the Nazi genocide against Jews as it did to the caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed, The Associated Press reports. |
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/02/07/cartoon.protests/index.html
Wow, talk about immature. This is really all pretty stupid when you look at it in context.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
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| Tue Feb 07, 2006 6:14 pm |
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Heard about this. They've already made cartoons like this...IMO, they're going SOOOO far worse and down the wrong track, it's sickening. There is DEFINITELY more to it than simply this cartoon. It's an excuse to enact hate.
But this isn't surprising, considering the cartoons they've made about Israel, Jews, the President, Christians and Christianity, etc. etc. And not just cartoons, either.
It's sickening. They're almost making me support the Danish cartoon...
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Founder
Dominion Leader
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| Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:04 pm |
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Supporting a cartoon that mocks Religious figures? C'mon RM, I know you know better than that and wouldn't support something like that.
BTW? When did the artist apologize and made amends? I wanna see it.
Also, wasn't there various cartoons from differen't people? Not just on artist. They were pumping them out in an immature attempt to outdue the other.
I think the Muslims are taking this too far and are a little hypocritical in their actions, but these idiots shouldn't made these cartoons in the first place. There was no reason to. Now look at what is happening. Was it worth it?
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TrekkieMage
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| Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:07 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | Well, I think Toles is actually right on in that cartoon. This coming from a person who doesn't like him at all, especially for his Rumsfeld cartoon.
I agree with you on this one, pretty much in entirety, Trekkie. |
I think this is one for the history books, RM
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
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| Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:14 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | Supporting a cartoon that mocks Religious figures? C'mon RM, I know you know better than that and wouldn't support something like that.
BTW? When did the artist apologize and made amends? I wanna see it.
Also, wasn't there various cartoons from differen't people? Not just on artist. They were pumping them out in an immature attempt to outdue the other.
I think the Muslims are taking this too far and are a little hypocritical in their actions, but these idiots shouldn't made these cartoons in the first place. There was no reason to. Now look at what is happening. Was it worth it? |
No, of course it wasn't worth it. And I wasn't saying that I do support it--I could never do such a thing. I was only expressing, through the literary technique of hyperbole, my outrage at their reaction.
What the cartoonists did was horribly wrong, but their reaction, overall, was worse, I think. Just because of this cartoon you don't go around the world doing these things that they're doing.
I haven't heard about various cartoons coming out from different people, no, so I don't know how true that is.
But either way it doesn't mean that the reaction, per se, is their fault. What they did was horribly wrong, but how the people reacted? They should have foreseen it, yes, by far, but still. The reaction is worse, overall. I mean, really. Just look at everything going on.
Not that what the cartoonist(s) did was right--it was far from it. And there is NO REASON to condone it. All it did was make another mess out of Europe and pay into the hands of the terrorists...
They were IRRESPONSIBLE and people are DYING because they behaved irresponsibly. Well, giving them an excuse, at least, to do this.
WWIII, I'm telling you.
To all you Europeans: will this wake your people up to the threat of terrorism, or not?
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
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| Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:36 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | BTW? When did the artist apologize and made amends? I wanna see it. |
The original Danish newspaper (this was one newspaper) apologised. The cartoons ran back in September or such. It's only after the European papers escalated this entire matter by reprinting the comics and promulgating "free speech" that it got to this asinine level of stupidity on both parts.
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nadia
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| Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:40 pm |
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So much for them claiming to be a peaceful people. .
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
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| Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:05 am |
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^That's the thing. It makes dark light shine unfairly on the Islamic faith. These are what I call, and others call, Islamists, different from your ordinary Muslim.
And Tach, you're right for the most part, but from what I understand the outrage didn't start to escalate until after a single Imam, in the last week or so, started distributing the comic. Without him this whole thing wouldn't have happened/be happening.
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Hitchhiker
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| Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:23 pm |
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I was thinking also about all those people (mostly the teachers) who say that becoming a writer/artist means you will never amount to anything in life. Well, it was an artist who has managed to incite all of this violence.
As Scott Adams says, it's all perfectly legal too. I just wish I had the talent to pull it off.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
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| Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:06 pm |
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lol, I think I pretty much agree with that piece.
But yeah, they amounted to one HECK of a deal, these cartoonists...
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Republican_Man
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| Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:17 pm |
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Interesting news here...
| Quote: | Rice: Syria, Iran Inflamed Violence
WASHINGTON � Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice accused Iran and Syria on Wednesday of instigating Muslim protests triggered by drawings of the Prophet Muhammad, and President Bush pleaded for an end to violence.
"I have no doubt that Iran and Syria have gone out of their way to inflame sentiments and have used this for their own purposes," Rice said. "The world ought to call them on it."
She did not offer specifics during a brief State Department news conference with Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni. The United States accuses Iran and Syria of funding terrorism and has tried to unite world opinion against both Middle Eastern nations.
"I call upon the governments around the world to stop the violence, to be respectful, to protect property, protect the lives of innocent diplomats who are serving their countries overseas," Bush had said earlier at the White House.
"We reject violence as a way to express discontent with what may be printed in a free press," he said.
"I call upon the governments around the world to stop the violence, to be respectful, to protect property, protect the lives of innocent diplomats who are serving their countries overseas," the president said.
Bush also said that Americans believe in a free press, and added, "With freedom comes the responsibility to be thoughtful about others."
Bush made his comments after a meeting in the Oval Office with King Abdullah II of Jordan.
"With all respect to press freedoms, obviously anything that villifies the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, or attacks Muslim sensibilities, I believe, needs to be condemned," the king said.
He went on to say that those who want to protest "should do it thoughfully, articulately, express their views peacefully."
"When we see protests, when we see destruction, when we see violence, especially if it ends up taking the lives of innocent people, is completely unacceptable," he added. "Islam, like Christianity and Judaism, is a religion of peace, tolerance, moderation."
Police in Afghanistan shot four protesters to death earlier Wednesday to stop hundreds from marching on a U.S. military base as Islamic organizations, too, called for an end to deadly rioting across the Muslim world.
The United States and other nations are looking at the question of whether extremist groups may behind the protests because of cartoons that have been printed in numerous European papers.
Eleven people have been killed in the last week as thousands conducted street protests in a dozen Afghan cities and towns to march against the cartoons, which have been reprinted in various European media after first appearing in a Danish newspaper in September.
The drawings � including one depicting the prophet wearing a turban shaped as a bomb � have stirred a furor among Muslins. Islam is interpreted to forbid any illustrations of Muhammad for fear they could lead to idolatry.
The caricatures were first published in the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten. Culture editor Flemming Rose said in a cable news interview on Wednesday he came up with the idea after several local cases of self-censorship involving people fearing reprisals from Muslims.
Bush said the reaction to the publication of the drawings was a subject "that requires a lot of discussion and a lot of sensitive thought."
"I first want to make it very clear to people around the world that our's is a nation that believes in tolerance and understanding," Bush said. "In America, we welcome people of all faiths. One of the great attributes of our country is that you're free to worship however you choose in the United States of America.
"Secondly, we believe in a free press," Bush added. "And also recognize that with freedom comes responsibilities. With freedom comes the responsibility to be thoughtful about others."
Source |
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webtaz99
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| Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:23 pm |
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In Islam, any form of representational art (art which depicts real objects, most especially the human body) is forbidden, which is why you see so much abstract design in Mid-East artwork. So cartoons of any kind are "haram".
In particular, it is forbidden to make images of Mohammed in order to prevent idolatry.
So an image of Mohammed that is anti-Mohammed should cancel out, right?
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harrykims#1fan
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| Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:32 pm |
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i think the protestors are blowin this waaaaaaaaaay out of proportion it was meant as a bit of light hearted fun. and no offence but cant they protest about sumthing else other than a PICTURE!!!
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TrekkieMage
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| Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:43 pm |
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^ Well, it is a HUGE insult against their religion and beliefs. But it is still WAY out of proportion.
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Theresa
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| Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:53 pm |
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| Quote: | Muslims Assault U.S. Embassy in Indonesia
By ALI KOTARUMALOS, AP
JAKARTA, Indonesia (Feb. 19) - Hundreds of Muslims protesting caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad tried to storm the U.S. Embassy on Sunday, smashing the windows of a guard post but failing to push through the gates. Several people were injured.
Pakistani security forces, meanwhile, sealed off the capital of Islamabad to block a planned mass demonstration and fired tear gas and gunshots to chase off protesters. In Turkey, tens of thousands gathered in Istanbul chanting slogans against Denmark, Israel and the United States.
Protests over the cartoons, which first appeared in a Danish newspaper in September and have been republished in other European publications and elsewhere, have swept across the Muslim world, growing into mass outlets for rage against the West in general, and Israel and the United States in particular.
Christians also have become targets. Pakistani Muslims protesting in the southern city of Sukkur ransacked and burned a church Sunday after hearing accusations that a Christian man had burned pages of the Quran, Islam's holy book.
That incident came a day after Muslims protesting in the Nigerian city of Maiduguri attacked Christians and burned 15 churches in a three-hour rampage that killed at least 15 people. Some 30 other people have died during protests over the cartoons that erupted about three weeks ago.
In Jakarta, about 400 people marched to the heavily fortified U.S. mission in the center of the city, behind a banner reading "We are ready to attack the enemies of the Prophet."
Protesters throwing stones and brandishing wooden staves tried to break through the gates. They set fire to U.S. flags and a poster of President Bush and smashed the windows of a guard outpost before dispersing after a few minutes.
The U.S. Embassy called the attacks deplorable, describing them as acts of "thuggery."
A protest organizer said the West, and particularly the United States, is attacking Islam.
"They want to destroy Islam through the issue of terrorism ... and all those things are engineered by the United States," said Maksuni, who only uses one name.
"We are fighting America fiercely this time," he said. "And we also are fighting Denmark."
In Pakistan, where protests last week left five people dead, police put up roadblocks around Islamabad to keep people from entering the capital for a planned mass protest called by a coalition of six hard-line Islamic parties, the Mutahida Majlis-e-Amal -- United Action Forum.
Authorities also detained several lawmakers and Islamic leaders during raids in three cities and announced they would arrest anyone joining a gathering of more than five people to prevent the demonstration.
Opposition leader Maulana Fazlur Rahman, a senior figure in the Islamic coalition, was eventually given permission to lead a small rally through a square in the city center. The protesters chanted "God is great!" and "Any friend of America is a traitor."
But when about 100 other protesters tried to reach the square, officers fired tear gas and at least one gunshot to chase them off. More gunshots were heard later in the city, but it wasn't clear who fired them. At least two policemen were injured, one bleeding from the head. Several demonstrators also were hurt.
A crowd of 700 people, some throwing stones at police, tried to march toward Islamabad's heavily guarded diplomatic enclave about 1.3 miles from the square but with blocked by troops in armored personnel carriers.
Police also blocked about 1,500 protesters from reaching Islamabad from the city of Peshawar by putting shipping containers and sandbags on a bridge along a highway leading to the capital, said Mohammed Iqbal, a key member of the religious alliance.
Elsewhere in Pakistan, about 600 people staged a protest in Chaman, a town near the Afghan border, burning Danish flags and an effigy of the Danish prime minister.
Such protests prompted Denmark on Sunday to temporarily recall its ambassador to Pakistan, Bent Wigotski, because it was impossible for him "to perform his job duties during the present circumstances," the Danish Foreign Ministry said in a statement.
2/19/2006 10:53:23
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What a load of crap.
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Founder
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| Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:28 pm |
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Um....why have the Muslims been attacking the US embassies? We didn't make those cartoons....
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Theresa
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| Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:34 pm |
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Because apparently we're attacking Islam...
They're also after Christians. How tolerant, really.
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