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IntrepidIsMe
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 Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:58 am Alleged suffocation sparks super-secret court martial |
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| Quote: | Alleged suffocation sparks super-secret court martial
Trial features witnesses behind tarps, documents in lockboxes
FORT CARSON, Colorado (AP) -- The initials were spoken aloud only once all week, and then apparently by mistake.
After this past week's testimony, any role the CIA had -- or didn't have -- in the interrogation of an Iraqi general who died in U.S. custody remains a tantalizing and mysterious backdrop to the court-martial of Army Chief Warrant Officer Lewis Welshofer Jr.
The CIA is "the ghost at the banquet," said Eugene R. Fidell, an expert in military law who has been following the court-martial but doesn't know if the CIA was involved in the case.
"We're playing 'Hamlet' without Hamlet here," said Fidell, an attorney in private practice who teaches military law at American University in Washington. He also represented news organizations in their attempts to open pretrial hearings in Welshofer's prosecution.
Welshofer is charged with murder in the 2003 death of Republican Guard Maj. Gen. Abed Hamed Mowhoush at a detention camp in western Iraq.
Prosecutors say Mowhoush was stuffed headfirst in a sleeping bag and bound with electrical cord, then suffocated with Welshofer sitting atop his chest.
The defense contends a heart condition caused Mowhoush's death, and that Welshofer's commanders had approved the interrogation technique.
In 2004, the CIA said one of its officers may have been involved in Mowhoush's death, but the agency refused to elaborate. Last August, The Washington Post reported that documents it examined said Mowhoush was severely beaten by a CIA-sponsored Iraqi paramilitary group two days before he died.
Testimony at Welshofer's court-martial this past week confirmed that Mowhoush was indeed beaten by Iraqis two days before he died. But the witness, Chief Warrant Officer Todd Sonnek, did not identify the Iraqis.
Then defense lawyer Frank Spinner at one point questioned a witness whose identity is so secret that he was shielded from reporters and others by a green tarp suspended from the ceiling.
The witness said he was alarmed when Welshofer told him he thought the Army's interrogation guidelines were being broken every day.
"And you didn't report it to the CIA?" Spinner asked. The attorney then stopped himself and quickly apologized to the judge.
Spinner's apparent slip and the mystery surrounding that witness -- and others who have testified behind closed doors over the objections of the media -- were not the only indications of how sensitive the case is and how much remains secret.
Welshofer testified that when he left the room where he was questioning Mowhoush, he "noticed other people in the hallway" and that they took control of the session.
Welshofer said the Iraqis slapped and pushed Mowhoush, and the session escalated into a beating with rubber hoses after Mowhoush and one of the Iraqis recognized each other.
During his testimony, Welshofer said commanders offered little guidance on how to question detainees.
He said he received an e-mail from his unit's commanders saying there were no rules for interrogations because officials still had not determined how to classify detainees. The e-mail, sent as the insurgency was growing more lethal, claimed officers were "tired of taking casualties and that the gloves were coming off," he said.
The two sides presented closing arguments Saturday, and the jury of six Army officers began deliberating.
Each morning during the trial, two soldiers had wheeled in a locked box -- about 3 feet long, 2 feet wide and 1 foot high -- on a dolly. A security officer in a civilian suit and tie unlocks it and the attorneys pull out file folders and binders stamped "Secret" in large red letters.
The security officer makes sure the jurors, who are allowed to submit written questions for witnesses, don't inadvertently reveal any secrets.
At the end of each day, the materials are returned to the box, which is locked and wheeled out of court.
In closing arguments, Spinner said soldiers were under pressure to come up with new interrogation techniques, and Welshofer believed he was doing the right thing to help save the lives of troops.
Prosecutor Maj. Tiernan Dolan described a rogue interrogator who became frustrated with Mowhoush's refusal to answer questions and escalated his techniques to include beatings and simulated drownings until the general died.
"He treated that general worse than you would treat a dog, and he did so knowing he was required to treat the general humanely," Dolan said.
Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. |
Source: CNN.com
| Quote: | Prosecutors say Mowhoush was stuffed headfirst in a sleeping bag and bound with electrical cord, then suffocated with Welshofer sitting atop his chest.
The defense contends a heart condition caused Mowhoush's death, and that Welshofer's commanders had approved the interrogation technique. |
Gross.
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
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| Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:01 am |
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Yeah, dead people give up a lot of critical info, 
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Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
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And some have to live with our scars
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IntrepidIsMe
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| Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:02 am |
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Autopsies are amazing things.
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
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| Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:03 am |
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Haha. So much for them trying to keep it a secret noooow.
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Theresa
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| Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:10 am |
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| Theresa wrote: | | Yeah, dead people give up a lot of critical info, |
And good thing I meant killing detainees was stupid, eh? Rwy't ti golygu, Aaron.
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Some of us fall by the wayside
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And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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IntrepidIsMe
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| Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:34 am |
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Yes, good thing for you, 
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IntrepidIsMe
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| Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:23 pm |
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| Quote: | Army officer guilty in Iraqi general's death
Convicted of negligent homicide at detention camp
FORT CARSON, Colorado (AP) -- An Army officer was found guilty of negligent homicide late Saturday in the death of an Iraqi general at a detention camp, but was spared a conviction of murder that could have sent him to prison for life.
A panel of six Army officers also convicted Chief Warrant Officer Lewis Welshofer Jr., 43, of negligent dereliction of duty. He was acquitted of assault after six hours of deliberations.
Welshofer was accused of putting a sleeping bag over the head of Iraqi Maj. Gen. Abed Hamed Mowhoush, sitting on his chest and using his hand to cover the general's mouth while asking him questions in 2003.
Welshofer, who stood silently and showed no reaction when the verdict was announced, faces a dishonorable discharge and up to three years in prison for negligent homicide and three months for negligent dereliction of duty. Sentencing was scheduled for Monday.
If convicted of the original murder charge, he could have been sentenced to life in prison.
The defense had argued a heart condition caused Mowhoush's death, and that Welshofer's commanders had approved the interrogation technique.
"What he was doing he was doing in the open, and he was doing it because he believed the information in fact would save lives," attorney Frank Spinner said.
Spinner said he was disappointed with the verdict and would decide after sentencing whether to appeal.
"The verdict recognizes the context in which these events took place," he said. "It was a very difficult time in Iraq. There was confusion, and they were not getting clear guidance from headquarters."
Welshofer and prosecutors left without commenting.
During the trial, prosecutor Maj. Tiernan Dolan described a rogue interrogator who became frustrated with Mowhoush's refusal to answer questions and escalated his techniques from simple interviews to beatings to simulating drowning, and finally, to death.
"He treated that general worse than you would treat a dog and he did so knowing he was required to treat the general humanely," Dolan said.
Welshofer used his sleeping bag technique in the presence of lower ranking soldiers, but never in the presence of officers with the authority to stop him, Dolan said.
The treatment of the Iraqi general "could fairly be described as torture," Dolan said.
In an e-mail to a commander, Dolan said, Welshofer wrote that restrictions on interrogation techniques were impeding the Army's ability to gather intelligence. Welshofer wrote that authorized techniques came from Cold War-era doctrine that did not apply in Iraq, Dolan said.
"Our enemy understands force, not psychological mind games," Dolan quoted from Welshofer's message. Dolan said an officer responded by telling Welshofer to "take a deep breath and remember who we are."
The defense urged jurors to consider conditions in Iraq at the time of the interrogation: Soldiers were being killed in an increasingly lethal and increasingly bold insurgency. Welshofer had to make some decisions on his own because guidance was lacking and other techniques weren't working, Spinner said.
Officials believed Mowhoush had information that would "break the back of the whole insurgency," said defense attorney Capt. Ryan Rosauer. They also thought Mowhoush helping to bring foreign fighters into Iraq from across the Syrian border, he said.
Several prosecution witnesses, including one whose identity is classified and who testified in a closed session, had been granted immunity in exchange for their cooperation, Spinner noted. Two soldiers who were initially charged with murder in the case also were given immunity.
Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. |
Source: CNN.com
Three years and three months? That's pretty light. I don't see how any of the defence's arguments justify what happend in any way, shape, or form. Torturing detainees doesn't make us any better than Al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or the insurgency.
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Seven of Nine
Sammie's Mammy
Joined: 16 Jun 2001
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Location: North East England
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| Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:27 pm |
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I agree with both Theresa and IntrepidIsMe. Torture doesn't work, and it makes us as bad as those we're meant to be fighting. Killing someone isn't exactly the best way of getting information out of them.
And 3 years 3 months for suffocating someone to death is too light a sentence in my eyes.
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Republican_Man
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| Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:43 pm |
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I do agree that this is an awfully light sentence and that torture is wrong. What this man did was wrong.
But let's be careful not to jade it and make it seem as though that's what US inteligence officers, etc. are all doing, because this is rare.
While we do need cohersive interrogation to save lives, we don't need this.
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IntrepidIsMe
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| Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:45 pm |
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Well, apparently it was okay-ed by his commanding officers. If it was done here, why couldn't it have been done before? It wouldn't be surprising.
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Republican_Man
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| Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:47 pm |
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I didn't say that it couldn't have been done before; all I said was that it was rare. If you start making the allegations that this is incredibly common, that demeans our brave men and women in a way that need not be done--especially when it's not common.
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IntrepidIsMe
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| Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:48 pm |
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It seems to be growing more and more common, is all I'm saying.
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Republican_Man
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| Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:54 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | It seems to be growing more and more common, is all I'm saying. |
Maybe it's because the media's making it seem that way.
Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised.
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IntrepidIsMe
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| Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:07 pm |
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Hmmmmm. It's either happening, or it isn't. It's not as if they media would go so far as to make it up.
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Republican_Man
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| Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:09 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Hmmmmm. It's either happening, or it isn't. It's not as if they media would go so far as to make it up. |
Oh, no, no, I'm not saying that they're making it up. I am saying, however, that they are trying to make it seem as though it is common.
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IntrepidIsMe
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| Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:11 pm |
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How would they go about that, exactly? By making a report about it when it does happen? That's their job.
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Republican_Man
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| Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:16 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | How would they go about that, exactly? By making a report about it when it does happen? That's their job. |
Do we hear all the good things our troops are doing? Do we hear all the absences of such abuses in the media? No. There.
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IntrepidIsMe
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| Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:20 pm |
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Yeah, there are channels that do a lot of reporting on the good stuff going on Iraq. I guess it depends how deep you're willing to say the bias goes. And why exactly would they bother to say "Oh, by the way, there was no abuse in Iraq today"? There wouldn't be a point. People shouldn't have to expect there to be.
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Republican_Man
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| Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:49 pm |
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False Koran flushing story, this, Abu Graihb (relentless), Gitmo--the list goes on and on on what they report, and yet hardly anything good. The way they do it makes it seem as though everything is common and that our troops are doing bad things continuously and what have you.
But, then again, this debate isn't about the media, so...
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Founder
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| Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:54 pm |
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The media wouldn't make it up? You have a lot to learn. Trust me. The media does not care about "truth". They care about how many viewers they are going to get. They may not make it up, but if they have to stretch out the information to get a "real juicy story", they will do it. Even if it puts our soldiers in a bad light.
RM is correct when he says that this is rare. Just because the media depicts it as happening everywhere and everyday, doesn't mean it is. I find it hard to believe that EVERY soldier is doing this. That is not to say, that all of our soldiers are saints, because sadly they are not.
As for the topic, this man got off way too light. I hate all these soldiers getting caught torturing. I wish their punishment was so much more severe...
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IntrepidIsMe
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| Sun Jan 22, 2006 10:17 pm |
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I have a lot to learn? Smooth. The media wouldn't make up a story about the US Military torturing detainees. They'd be sued for libel and nobody would believe them again. That's hardly in their best interests.
I don't think anybody sees this as happening all the time, or that every soldier is doing, but more and more stories are coming up. Perhaps because it is happening more and more? Just a thought, I'm not saying it is. I suppose it's easier to blame the media.
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Founder
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| Sun Jan 22, 2006 10:23 pm |
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I clearly said they do not make it up, but do stretch out their "facts".
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IntrepidIsMe
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| Sun Jan 22, 2006 10:30 pm |
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Sorry, meant they wouldn't "stretch the info." I'm not saying that they won't do it, but on an issue as major as the US torture of suspects? It's hardly good business strategy to lose your customers and your integrity.
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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