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teya
Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 423
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 Sun Jan 08, 2006 3:25 pm |
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| CJ Cregg wrote: | | Well i prejudged The Chronicles of Narnia as being a religious film. But i ignored the extreme left wing views and watched it. And i loved it. |
I had the same experience with "The Passion of the Christ."
Okay, as I seem to be the only one so far who actually *watched* this show, I'll give my opinion. I'm not Christian, however half of my family is. My uncle is a Lutheran minister for over 50 years. My dad's side of the family is Orthodox Jewish. One brother and his family are born-again Christians (although politically liberal). The other brother and his family are lapsed Catholics (SIL had a serious falling out with the Church and its doctrines). Like my Native American grandmother, I'm a Pagan.
My take on the show: Well written, well-acted. The series is a sort-of cross between "Joan of Arcadia" and "Desperate Housewives." The comedy is dark and intelligent.
Jesus does not condone lesbianism or homosexuality. He makes no comment on it except to gently remind Daniel that the people involved are themselves good people--in other words, love the sinner. I thought that was supposed to be a basic tenet of Christianity. According to some of what I'm reading here, perhaps I was mistaken.
It also might be a good place to point out that the Episcopal church is currently in the midst of a period of change. An openly gay bishop was appointed in New England last year. Some more conservative congregations are splitting from the church. It is a fairly liberal branch of Christianity. The church itself has no problem with the series--the Diocese of Washington has a blog on it ( www.blogofdaniel.com ) and there is a lot of interesting debate going there, including many priests weighing in, both positively and negatively. Some pastors have recommended the series to their parishoners.
Daniel has a bad back and a prescription drug habit. Um, can we say "Rush Limbaugh"? It happens. Priests are no more exempt from worldly temptations than the rest of us. Jesus talks him out of popping a pill on a few occasions, Daniel succumbs to temptation at other times. In other words, Daniel is a human, with flaws like all of us, who doesn't listen to Jesus all the time. He sins. Like all of us.
The teenage daughter is dealing pot. So did my cousin, the minister's daughter. Oddly enough, she grew up--as we all do eventually--and ended up marrying a minister herself and being a good Christian wife and mother.
The teenage son is obsessed with sex. He's 16. Sounds like most adolescent boys.
The older son is gay. He's also rather conservative, and at one point tells his father that he doesn't want to be the poster child for gay issues, as in "the priest's gay son." Daniel is struggling with his son's orientation and what comes across most clearly is that he loves the young man unconditionally, even if he's having a bit of trouble accepting his orientation.
Indeed, this is what comes across most clearly in the show--this family, for all their dysfunction, loves each other. During a screaming match between mother and daughter as they're driving home from the police station, Daniel--a very angry Daniel--points out that they're an intact and loving family, and maybe they should just spend the rest of the drive home in silent meditation, reflecting on just how precious and rare that is these days.
There is humor and there is heartbreak. Two of the best examples of this came in interactions between Daniel and Jesus. On the humorous side, after an engaged couple tells Daniel that they've decided not to marry, but to continue "living in sin" thanks to his pre-marital counseling, Jesus looks at Daniel, rolls his eyes, gives him a sarcastic thumbs-up and says, "good one."
As for heartbreak... Daniel's mother has Alzheimers. She's reminiscing to Daniel about her children, and he says something referring to one of his siblings. She looks at him, says, "Are you my son? I don't know you" and walks away. He turns to Jesus, says, "Why can't you just fix her?" Jesus replies, "It doesn't work that way." Daniel, despondent, says, "I know. I just don't know *why*."
And Jesus doesn't answer. Because He doesn't give us the answers we're not ready to perceive. It's a touching and tender moment between a man and his God.
BTW, I should also interject here that a friend of mine--an evangelical minister--loved the show and cited this scene as one of his favorites. He also loved a shouting match between the kids at the dinner table in which one or more were swearing, and Daniel pounded the table, saying, "Hey, priest at the table!" Quinn's timing and delivery were dead on there, giving a true laugh-out-loud moment.
Like most pilots, the show was jam-packed full of plots and characters. They have to hit the ground running. There were a few production issues (dubbed dialogue was rough in spots), also common to pilots. It will be interesting to see how the show develops as it falls into its groove.
I must thank folks like the AFA and Republican Man for standing so firmly against something they haven't seen. Had I not heard the hoo-ha ahead of time, I probably would have gone out for a night of jazz and champagne, rather than stay in to watch TV. I'm glad I did. I'll be tuning in again next week. 
-------signature-------
Resume your disorder.
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teya
Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 423
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:05 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Founder wrote: | No I haven't seen Farencrap 9/11. But I don't need to, to know that it is leftist propaganda. Not to mention, I've read about its "facts" on the internet. None of them hold any weight. Then I heard about how several people in the movie said Moore edited what they said. I won't put any money into Jabba the Hutt's pocket.  |
Well then you can't be harping on me for making a pre-judgment, after all the things I've read and heard. I saw F. 9/11, and didn't need to. I doubt I'll see this, but I don't need to, nor should I. It goes against EVERY GOD DAMN THING I BELIEVE IN!!!! Do you guys not understand this!!! For Christ's sake! (pardon the pun) Why in the world do you think I'm opposed to it!!
::stands back and breaths:: I'll wait a few minutes before saying anything else, so that I don't lead to another ban... |
Oh yes, btw RM. I don't, and many other Christians don't consider your comments as a pun, but rather as Founder said, taking the Lords name in vain, which, btw, if you've read any bit of the Bible, you know is wrong. And then on a much lesser note, we have the rules of STV about swearing. You are violating those rules. And you are one who should have those rules memorized. If I ever see such a thing from you again, I will ban you from WN permanently. I don't care what you threaten to do to yourself. Are we clear?
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Monster
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 337
Location: The Great Plains
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| Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:36 pm |
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Way to stand your ground, RM (but please try not to get baned)  . I am outraged by this excuse for a TV show, as are some other people.
I haven't read all the posts so I may be making a point twice. For all the people that say, 'If you don't like, then don't watch it', consider this: Imagine if someone wrote a story about your life that had good writing, and was well written. You wouldn't have any problem with it. But if someone wrote a story which was innacurate and made a mockery of your life, then you would be outraged(!) This show is a complete misrepresentation of Christianity. If the Church (in general) or Christianity is supposed to stay out of the way of TV and not try to dictate what is and isn't broadcast, then television network(s) HAVE NO RIGHT TO INTERFERE WITH THE CHURCH OR DISPLAY WHAT A CHURCH IS LIKE. If you've heard of separation of Church and State, well there should be a separation of Church and TV that go's both ways.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:40 pm |
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Which branch? Catholocism, Pentecostals, Apostolics, Episcopalians, COG, ???? Someone is always going to be offended by something. Welcome to life?
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Monster
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 337
Location: The Great Plains
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| Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:44 pm |
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| Theresa wrote: | | Which branch? Catholocism, Pentecostals, Apostolics, Episcopalians, COG, ???? Someone is always going to be offended by something. Welcome to life? |
Are you replying to my post (just want to be sure)?
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:48 pm |
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Just in general. I mean, why is one group so special? The Jews could have been having fits for years for the even mention of Jesus, since they don't believe he's the savior and all. I just don't get why when it's our sensibilities offended, it's evil and has to go, but we can offend others, or let them be offended.
And I know the word is denomination, just felt like saying branch.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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teya
Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 423
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| Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:56 pm |
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| Monster wrote: | | For all the people that say, 'If you don't like, then don't watch it', consider this: Imagine if someone wrote a story about your life that had good writing, and was well written. You wouldn't have any problem with it. |
Very true. Thing is, this show *is* well-written. If a writer's opinion on the matter means anything.
And yes, I would be more than willing to write a series that involves my family (or characters close to them) and it would contain the same sort of dark humor that's in "The Book of Daniel." Because we can see our flaws and laugh at ourselves.
| Quote: | | This show is a complete misrepresentation of Christianity. |
As Theresa asked, *which* Christianity? Which denomination? Who gets to determine how the Episcopal church and Episcopalians are depicted on television? Baptists? Or Episcopalians?
Again, the Episcopal church has no problem with the airing of the show, nor the discussions engendered by it. And there have been heated discussions, both for and against it. They are encouraging parishoners to watch and make up their own minds.
-------signature-------
Resume your disorder.
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Monster
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 337
Location: The Great Plains
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| Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:02 pm |
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I'm not talking about a certain denomination. I'm talking about people who believe that Jesus died for everyone's sins and that the only way to save yourself is to give your life to Jesus. Every denomination mostly agrees on that, but after that they tend to go off in their own ways.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:24 pm |
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| Theresa wrote: | | Just in general. I mean, why is one group so special? The Jews could have been having fits for years for the even mention of Jesus, since they don't believe he's the savior and all. I just don't get why when it's our sensibilities offended, it's evil and has to go, but we can offend others, or let them be offended. |
Not exactly true. Whenever we get offended its evil?
Maybe because I'm tired of everyone stepping all over Christianity(as a whole) because any other religion, it would be wrong.
We can offend others or let them be offended? Are you kidding me?
If this show was about Jews or Muslisms, this show would not work either. No one can be offended and no feels it is ok to offend.
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teya
Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 423
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| Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:26 pm |
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^ So I don't see the problem with this show.
Daniel is a priest. Obviously he *has* given his life to Jesus, and he has a personal relationship with Jesus. They talk to each other. Jesus guides him. Daniel doesn't always listen, but isn't that true of all Christians?
Jesus even says that by the way... Early on, Daniel asks Him why He talks to Daniel, "Was I, erm, chosen or something?" Jesus smiles and says, "No, I talk to everyone. Most of them just don't listen."
-------signature-------
Resume your disorder.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:27 pm |
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I don't get what's "evil" about the show. The one person who has actually seen it told us about it, and I personally saw nothing "evil" there...
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Monster
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 337
Location: The Great Plains
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| Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:28 pm |
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People shouldn't try to depict Jesus in a TV show, or in any other situation which is not depicted in the Bible. He is so much more glorious and deserves much more...
Last edited by Monster on Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:29 pm |
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teya is right.... I said I wouldn't probably watch it. But Teya did explain things really well. Jesus does talk to people but do we listen? Some christians fail to listen. Alot do listen. I really have to watch the show to see it though.
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:29 pm |
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| Monster wrote: | | We shouldn't try to depict Jesus in a TV show. He is so much more glorious and deserves much more. |
Like a movie or something?
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Monster
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 337
Location: The Great Plains
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| Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:30 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Monster wrote: | | We shouldn't try to depict Jesus in a TV show. He is so much more glorious and deserves much more. |
Like a movie or something? |
Check my post again. I edited it.
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:33 pm |
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Well, I think the point is that not everyone can relate to the Bible, it is a thousand+ years old. However, if we can see Jesus talking to a modern day human being? That's probably something that more people can relate to. And TV is all about your relation to the characters within the show.
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:34 pm |
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I agree that this show isn't evil and they are depicting Jesus in a wise but somewhat sarcastic manner. Not really bad anywho. I was disturbed because it was implied that they were going to depict him as a sex crazed maniac. If that is not the case, then I don't mind.
I also don't mind if there are movie/tv show depictions of Jesus. All of them fall short of who he truly is, but thats the point of tv and movies, none of it is real.
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Monster
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 337
Location: The Great Plains
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| Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:36 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Well, I think the point is that not everyone can relate to the Bible, it is a thousand+ years old. However, if we can see Jesus talking to a modern day human being? That's probably something that more people can relate to. And TV is all about your relation to the characters within the show. |
I see your point. But I still don't think that we should try and predict how Jesus thinks. And TV is all about relationships of characters, which just proves more that this show doesn't belong on TV.
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:37 pm |
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I don't see what you mean by that final point?
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Monster
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 337
Location: The Great Plains
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| Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:37 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | I agree that this show isn't evil and they are depicting Jesus in a wise but somewhat sarcastic manner. Not really bad anywho. I was disturbed because it was implied that they were going to depict him as a sex crazed maniac. If that is not the case, then I don't mind.
I also don't mind if there are movie/tv show depictions of Jesus. All of them fall short of who he truly is, but thats the point of tv and movies, none of it is real. |
But if they all fall short, why is ok for people to keep trying. Like I said earlier, there should be some, but not total, separation of Church and TV.
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Monster
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 337
Location: The Great Plains
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| Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:39 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | I don't see what you mean by that final point? |
Okay, let me be more clear: Since we don't know how Jesus would react in a situation we put him in, like a TV show, then we don't need to try to bring Jesus down to our level.
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:41 pm |
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Whether or not Jesus was divine is open to interpretation, everyone can agree with it. So why should picturing him as being perhaps more human-like be a bad thing? It isn't as if they're necessarily making him out to be sinful.
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:44 pm |
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| Monster wrote: | | Founder wrote: | I agree that this show isn't evil and they are depicting Jesus in a wise but somewhat sarcastic manner. Not really bad anywho. I was disturbed because it was implied that they were going to depict him as a sex crazed maniac. If that is not the case, then I don't mind.
I also don't mind if there are movie/tv show depictions of Jesus. All of them fall short of who he truly is, but thats the point of tv and movies, none of it is real. |
But if they all fall short, why is ok for people to keep trying. Like I said earlier, there should be some, but not total, separation of Church and TV. |
But then great movies like The Passion of the Christ would not be made. There are tons of Religious themed movies. Not to mention, whether movies want to admit it or not, many movies have religious themes.
Star Wars: Anakin is born of a virgin birth. He is a chosen one who will bring balance to the Force. He is part of a RELIGIOUS order who worships a higher "force".
Matrix: Too many Biblical referances in that movie, but here is some. Neo is a "messiah" to Zion(a place in the Bible). His body dies in a cross like position. He died and came back to life. The list goes on and on.
If we force seperation of church and tv/movies, then we lost a lot of good freaking movies. Blasphemy to any who agree to this! We would have no Neo!!!!
But on a serious note, Religion has played such a pivotal role in tv/movies. Not ALL of course, but a decent amount. To lose that because producers can't make a likeness of an omnipotent being is not fair. I mean...they have their work cut out for them.
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:45 pm |
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| Monster wrote: | Way to stand your ground, RM (but please try not to get baned) . I am outraged by this excuse for a TV show, as are some other people.
I haven't read all the posts so I may be making a point twice. For all the people that say, 'If you don't like, then don't watch it', consider this: Imagine if someone wrote a story about your life that had good writing, and was well written. You wouldn't have any problem with it. But if someone wrote a story which was innacurate and made a mockery of your life, then you would be outraged(!) This show is a complete misrepresentation of Christianity. If the Church (in general) or Christianity is supposed to stay out of the way of TV and not try to dictate what is and isn't broadcast, then television network(s) HAVE NO RIGHT TO INTERFERE WITH THE CHURCH OR DISPLAY WHAT A CHURCH IS LIKE. If you've heard of separation of Church and State, well there should be a separation of Church and TV that go's both ways. |
...why should Christianity be dictating freedom of speech now? Because it's the majority religion in this country? Reading Teya's post, while maybe it's on the edge a little, it sounded like a show even I wouldn't mind seeing. If we start censoring Christianity and church depiction from all manner of television, what kind of country would we be? That's idiotic. Maybe we shouldn't air Star Trek because Jesus hasn't come by then and there's hardly any Christian Humans. Dear me.
People are free to display religions as they choose. It sounds like this show is the depiction of an imperfect Christian family that seems to be trying. There's a lot of those out there. Perhaps they don't have that many problems...but there are these kinds of life situations. I can see why people are outraged, but I find the reaction a little over-defensive.
Last edited by Arellia on Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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