Deep Space 9-Political Controversy?

[Founder]

I've noticed after Episode III came out, that people tore it apart through politics. All the way from people comparing Palpatine to Bush, Rebels to terrorists, and Anakin's line mirroring Bush's speech "If you're not with me, then you're my enemy."-"If you're not with us, then you're with the terrorists." Same thing with Syrianna and Passion of the Christ. Syrianna was a "Liberal movie", while Passion was a "Conservative movie". (Personally? I liked both.) I was sad to see that politics have become so deeply rooted now, that people can't even see a movie without thinking about it and claiming it has a Liberal/Conservative agenda. I wondered what else could all of that apply to? Now as most of you know, I'm a tool for all things Deep Space Nine, minus S31 of course( Dan). I realized that DS9 could be seen to have an "agenda" just as the other movies/shows do. Think about it....

Kira? An ex-terrorist.(Insurgent)
Garak? A spy.(CIA)
S31, a shadowy organization that does extreme things to "protect" the Federation.(CIA/Al-Quada)
Bajorans? A Religious people(Muslims/Christians)
A galactic power starts a war with the Alpha Quadrant because they feel threatened? (Iraq War)
Several species not joining with the Fed. in a "pointless war". Species like the Tholian and Romulans and even Klingons did not immediatly join with the Fed. to fight the Dominion. (Many countries did not rush to join the US in the Iraq War)
The episodes "Home Front" and "Paradise Lost" were about the Federation going under martial law. (Patriot Act)
The Obsidian Order/Tal Shiar launch a preemptive strike on the Founder's homeworld. Mislead by false information by the Founders.(US launching a war against Iraq based off of information on WMDs)
A Jem'Hadar ship does a suicide run into the USS Oddessy to "show us how far they're willing to go".(9/11)
The creation of the Maquis who bomb ships and fight against their "oppressors"(terrorists)
Occupation of Bajor(Occupation of Iraq)

The list goes on and on and on. What I'm asking is, do you think DS9 would have made it past season 1 if it were made TODAY? Would people tear it apart due to its "Liberal/Conservative" agenda?

Please do not turn this into a political debate. This isn't about the Iraq War and if it was right or wrong. I'm talking about DS9.

[Lord Borg]

Honestly? most likely no. Because as you said there was a bunch if "politcal digging" for episide three, and the similarities that ds9 has done (in comparing recent events) would spark "contraversy" then again, I would just look at it as a star trek tv show, not something with biased politcal opinion.

[Founder]

I'm glad DS9 was made long before those events. It might even shape up to be different because someone would either push to have MORE politics in it to "expose the truth" or show no politics in it to be "neutral".

Honestly, as a person who is way into politics, it would be hard for me to view it as a non-political show.

[Arellia]

I had been thinking of that just recently. I do think that DS9 would've been tainted if it had been made in these times. Even to me, it makes me think about liberals and conservatives...about the future, and going to war and why, and the heroes in DS9 who supported the war... not to try and politicize the show, but just from curiousity. With all the war controversy now, it would be pretty irresistable to parody DS9 and today or try to bring across some kind of message.

[iamthepolarbear]

[iamthepolarbear]

[jadziaezri]

i have been re watching ds9 thanks to my bf giving them to me for chrissy and i watch it with competly different eyes now that the war on terror has begun.

[thegame]

It is an interesting thing to watch DS9 in a post-9/11 world. The idea of terrorism, which is a main theme of the earlier DS9 seasons and re-emerges in the final 5 shows, is treated differently than we in America are told to see Terrorism today. Characters like Kira, later Dukat vs. the Klingons and Damar vs. the Dominion are shown in a more heroic way, and if I had been raised in the Middle East instead of in America perhaps I could better appreciate the use of Terrorism as a tool. But I think the difference here is that in the case of Damar and Kira, terrorism was used to a far more noble and less-religious end than is the terrorism so widley seen in our real world.
As to the idea of the Dominion War and the Iraq War being similar, I think that is totally bogus. The Iraq War is one of aggression and pre-emption, while the Dominion War was one of reaction and done out of a need to survive an imminent threat by a power equal to or greater than that of the Federation and its close allies. Those who didn't get involved (Tholians, Miradorn, Bajor, Ferenginar, etc.) did so because they simply had no way of standing up to the Dominion. Only the Federation, Klingons and Romulans were enough of a "superpower" to stand against the mighty forces of the Jem'Haddar, Cardassians and later the Breen.

[Republican_Man]

The only real similarity I see, which I very much do feel is rooted in current events, is the situation in Israel, when compared to the Cardassian occupation of Bajor.
Here you have foreigners (and in terms of Israel, this would be from the perspective of those against the state) coming in and taking over the land. Those that lived there were oppressed, put into camps, etc. They were forced to take on a terrorist lifestyle. Eventually, the terrorists (Bajorans) retake their homeworld and things are better for them. And through this entire time they make the Bajorans seem as though they are the good guys (which, in the case of ST, I would argue they clearly are).
Here is the parallel to Israel.
Caradassians = Israelis
Bajorans = Palestinians

There is a direct correlation, I would say, and have thought about for some time, between what happened on Bajor and what happened/is happening in Israel.
Here you have a show making it seem as though, through the parallel, the Israelis are evil, as portrayed in the Cardassians, and the Bajorans are the Palistinians, an oppressed people whose land was taken from them unjustly.
Now, obviously there are some differences, such as actual conquest in DS9, whereas the situation in Israel was a bit different when the state was founded, but I'm sure you catch my drift.
I think that that's the one and only direct correlation to current events in DS9. Anything else, I think, is too deep. I mean, there are a few interesting similarities, yes, but the only thing I really find rooted into DS9 is the conflict in Israel.
And in DS9, through the paraellel, I think it's an anti-Israeli show trying to make them seem as though they are the bad guys and the Bajorans as though they are the good guys who had nothing better to do than commit acts of terrorism.
Not that, mind you, I'm NEARLY as pro-Israel as I used to be. I still support it, but I'm not blind to their wrongs any more.
I do see, though, a rather anti-Israeli show in DS9.

[IntrepidIsMe]

Hmmm, I think we should keep in mind that perhaps it's just a coincidence? It's not as if an occupation story is really all that outlandish or particular to DS9/Israel/Palestine.

[Republican_Man]

It has all the direct parallels to it. And it's not like the situation there is recent. It's quite old.
There are direct parallels. It's not any average occupation. It shows, from what I've seen, a direct correlation to the situation in Israel. For instance, the Maquis are like, say, one of the Palistinian terrorist groups (for some reason my mind isn't recalling the name of the main one, which I don't know why). There's a direct correlation there, and I don't think it's coincidence. I think they used the Israeli-Palestinian situation as a basis for the Bajor stuff.
It's more than just an occupation story. It directly correlates to the situation in Israel.

[IntrepidIsMe]

Well, if you have any occupation there's obviously going to be an underground movement in an attempt to overthrow the invaders. It's just the next step.

When Germany had occupied France, there was an underground movement there, too. And as I recall, the Nazis put their captives into camps, as well. So you just as easily come to the conclusion that the Cardassians are the Nazis, and the French are the Bajorans... It's just logical that any occupation would have at least some kind of rebellion, most likely underground.

[Republican_Man]

But the rebellion wasn't in a manner such as that which the Bajorans did, or the Palestinians.
Secondly, from what I recall, the Cardassian camps on Bajor were different from those of the Nazis. They were put into refugee camps, as were the Palestinians.
I would argue that it is, therefore, quite different from the Nazis in France--or the Nazis anywhere, for that matter--and is far closer to Israel.

Again, you have land taken over, for whatever reason. The start-up may have been different, but what follows is similar.
The Bajorans are put into refugee camps and things where they're not tortured, gassed, or whatever (usually). Instead, they lose there homes and are forced to live in these camps, which do involve labor, etc. but are not in a form of that of the Nazis. Instead, they correlate with the refugee camps of the Palestinians, for which they were forced out of their homes by the Israelis and place into.
Then, terrorist movements began. Suicide bombings, more massive terrorism and organizational structures of terrorist groups. In France, however, the acts portrayed were not of such a level, but more of a more classic underground rebellion. In Israel, however, there was the creation of organized terrorist groups that carried out terrorist activities (and still do) while under the occupation of the Israelis.
On Bajor there was an occupation and the formation terrorist groups that carried out terrorist activities as well. If you take their methods of rebellion and their camps, you'll find, from what I've seen and analyzed since I started watching DS9, a direct correlation to the activities of the Palestinians in Israel, in terms of their camps and their method of rebellion.
You got the refugee camps, you got the terrorism, you got the occupation, you got people being forced out of their homes...I would argue, judging from all that is layed before us, that there is no correlation between Bajor and the Cardassians is not related to that of France and the Nazis, but rather the Palestinians and Israelis.
Feel free to disagree, but the evidence, from where I stand, points to such a correlation.

[IntrepidIsMe]

The Cardassians also mass murdered the Bajorans, the whole issue is similar. Of course there is no direct connection, since of course it's just a tv show. And no, the French undground didn't cause massive destruction through their acts, but they caused a disturbance, like the Bajorans. I really only brought it up to show that throughout history if you have an occupation, you also have a rebellion. It would just be common sense to carry that through in the show, as well. Sure, there are similarities, but that's all I see them as being. I guess it's a matter perspective and how deep you're willing to read into it.

[Founder]

You all do prove good points about how it would take serious digging to see those things, but...after 9/11 it seems more...obvious.

Look at the contreversy with Book of Daniel. It seemed to have this anti-religion conspiracy to it, set by Liberals.

I find it hard to believe that there would not be people would be "disturbed" by DS9's "politics". Not to mention, DS9 has been the most political of all the ST shows. Which is why it would be more obvious...

[ZiriDelvar]

I always thought of the Bajorans more like the Jews than any other Earth Religious group... probably because of the persecution that they were recovering from.

The Dominion reminds me of extremists in that they wished to destroy anything that would not join them and follow their order of things.

[Founder]

I'm sorry to ressurect this topic, but I wanted to add another parallel.

There was an episode on DS9 that I recently saw that dealt with schools teaching evolution and not religion. On the show, Keiko O'Brien, Chief O'Brien's wife, is a teacher on DS9. She was teaching about the wormhole and the "aliens"(the Prophets) inside of it. Kai Winn, not a kai at this point, did not like the fact she taught the children the Prophets were aliens and not Gods.

You could say that this was a direct parallel to the issue we recently had of Intelligent Design Vs. Evolution being taught in schools.

[Lord Borg]

I remember that, they forced the school closed, and even blew it up because Kieko said she couldnt just teach it in the Bajoran way, because many children were non Bajoran.

[StarfleetCommand74656]

DS9 struck me as very Nazi- Occupation: Cardassian Occ

[JupiterPrime]

who cares - its trek - we watch it to forget about that political guff - even if some episodes/series/themes purposefully emulate any given moment of political propoganda.

As far as Im concerned, popping in TV series DVDs and rewatching old shows is a lot more interesting than seeing the same news information hammered at me channel after channel after channel - that is of course IF there ever actaully manages to be anyting on whilst channel-surfing...I swear to god, lately every time I channel surf, virtually every channel has a friggin commercial on and the only reason I know whats actually on in the particular timeslot is becasue I get a littel window sayin the name of the actual broacast.

[Kilgore]

I've always felt that the Cardassians are China occupying a small religious people Bajor aka. Tibet