| Are you pleased with the President's speech tonight? |
| Yes |
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36% |
[ 4 ] |
| No |
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27% |
[ 3 ] |
| Somewhat |
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36% |
[ 4 ] |
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| Total Votes : 11 |
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oberon
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 106
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 Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:30 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | So I'm guessing you didn't like the speech. |
No actually I thought it was rather funny. I love to watch him fidget and squirm like the writhing little worm that he is. 
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:37 pm |
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Funny. He actually looks more like a monkey than a worm to me, but I guess I don't have those liberal eyes like you do--blinded or difficult to see through
He was nervious, yes, and needs to work on his hand motions (that coming from a speechmaker and giver myself), but otherwise it was great. He spoke well and was articulate and the speech was in and of itself good. He never said a word incorrectly, and only messed up speech-wise once (tripped over his words once)
Btw, like my avatar? 
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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oberon
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 106
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| Mon Dec 19, 2005 10:53 am |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | Funny. He actually looks more like a monkey than a worm to me, but I guess I don't have those liberal eyes like you do--blinded or difficult to see through
He was nervious, yes, and needs to work on his hand motions (that coming from a speechmaker and giver myself), but otherwise it was great. He spoke well and was articulate and the speech was in and of itself good. He never said a word incorrectly, and only messed up speech-wise once (tripped over his words once)
Btw, like my avatar? |
My liberal eyes? Okay...
Anyway, people are usually nervous when they lie. You sound like his mother evaluating his performance in school. Why would you want a president who acts like such a simpleton? His speech was shoddy as is he, himself. When has he ever been successful? Does he take into context the thoughts and feelings of his people? No. Nothing can be changed because he and his administration don't care. They're in power to stay in power. Power and money rule the US, not the people. Democracy is a little perverted here, wouldn't you say? War mongers have no place in government. He thinks he speaks to god? Well, voices in your head usually means you're schizophrenic. I should think god would tell him not to wage war in the first place if he really was in contact with such a being. How can you like this president? I'm just so mystified.
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Mon Dec 19, 2005 11:24 am |
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First off, Bush is not an war monger and I talk to God so you gonna say that I am schizophrenic? Or any other christian. We could say the same about non believers, or people who talk to the devil.
Bush did the right thing, too bad you liberals are one minded . Can't see the light.
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Mon Dec 19, 2005 1:31 pm |
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Oberon, your ignorance is blinding. Liberals are so intolerant and closed minded...
So, how can I like this president, what has he done right... Let's see...
50 million people are now living in freedom directly because of this president; rather than being oppressed and terrorised.
Saddam Hussein is behind bars.
Islamic terrorists are now unable to attack the United States; since we're fighting them on their own ground.
Taxes are down, government revenues are up. (Even better than expected)
Inner City Schools have more funding than ever.
Minorities hold more top-level government positions than ever.
Economy is skyrocketing, jobless rate is plummeting.
The Supreme Court now has the most qualified and competent Chief Justice in the world.
Terrorist attacks on the Brooklyn Bridge, among others have been prevented.
Evil partial birth abortions have been almost completely banned.
...and much more.
Better question is: How can you NOT like this president; he's done a FANTASTIC job.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon Dec 19, 2005 1:53 pm |
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First, it was a JOKE, oberon.
Second, a liar? Uh, no. He was nervious because he was giving an address FROM THE OVAL OFFICE--and an address in front of a camera and not to an immediate audience. He doesn't have that nervioiusness when he's speaking directly to an audience in front of him. Wouldn't you be nervious, too? Oh, I'm sure you would, so don't give me that liar crap.
Third, LB is right on with that list of good things. He is an excellent president who has done mostly good for this country (minus illegal immigration and OUTRAGEOUS spending). He is not a war mongerer. Not even close. He went to DEFEND us--something that you, judging from your posts, seem to not understand. You'd rather we sit back and all get attacked. You'd rather we not defend this country and negotiate with the terrorists and give Saddam and the like all they want. Well, I don't buy that ideology. I buy the ideologies of Ronald Wilson Reagan and George Walker Bush--"Peace through strength" and defending this nation when attacked, or when an attack is imminent and we must prevent another.
When Bush does something to help the country, you bash him. I just don't get it. There's no good that you can admit the president has done. I can admit something Jimmy Carter did well--and I think he's one of our worst presidents in history. That would be his Mid-East peace stuff. Clinton, although it was mostly because of the Republican congress, did NAFTA and Welfare Reform, as well as Nanotechnology stuff.
See, I can admit when a president--even one that I dislike--does good things. Why can't you? He's done TONS of good for this country...and the world. What's interesting, as I said in the other topic, is how if we have another attack in this country because we don't have the policies we have now in place, you're going to blame Bush. You're going to say that he didn't do enough to protect us. So, yeah. When it comes to assessments of Bush, we can't trust you. Nothing he does is acceptable to you, unless he does EXACTLY what you want him to do.
You know, I would expect that you would become more open-minded at STV. I did, and still am. I came to STV this ABSOLUTELY DEVOUT Conservative Republican (hence Republican_Man) who believed in everything Rush Limbaugh said. But then I started debating here, and at school, and that expanded my mind. That helped me to realize that other opinions can be correct, and that I'm don't always have the only correct opinion--that there are other logical ideas, which has expanded my mind, made me a wiser person, and helped me to become a better debater. I suggest that you try to open that door a little, to accept more than just what you want. I have, and it's helped me in ways I can't even describe. I really do suggest that you do the same--and I mean that in the nicest way possible. 
Btw, Merry Christmas, oberon!
*draws in a clean breath of air*
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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oberon
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 106
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| Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:32 pm |
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| LightningBoy wrote: | Oberon, your ignorance is blinding. Liberals are so intolerant and closed minded...
That generalization just proves your own ignorance.
So, how can I like this president, what has he done right... Let's see...
50 million people are now living in freedom directly because of this president; rather than being oppressed and terrorised.
Freedom? Yes, the freedom to be attacked by groups who want the US out.
Saddam Hussein is behind bars.
At the cost of a bloody war begun with "false information".
Islamic terrorists are now unable to attack the United States; since we're fighting them on their own ground.
While being disenfranchised of our civil rights.
Taxes are down, government revenues are up. (Even better than expected)
Tax cuts for the wealthy? It's not helping me much. The gap between the middle class and the upper crust continues to widen. And revenues aren't even close to what they were when bush first took office.
Inner City Schools have more funding than ever.
While the kids' names and addresses are divulged with the help of no child left behind for military recruiters to feed from.
Minorities hold more top-level government positions than ever.
I can't argue with that.. though the minorities which he chose are the minority within their ethnic groups. Backing from African-Americans for the president is down substantially and for good reason.
Economy is skyrocketing, jobless rate is plummeting.
As compared to his first term. There was a surpluss when Clinton left office and now there's a gargantuan deficite
The Supreme Court now has the most qualified and competent Chief Justice in the world.
Perhaps by your standards.
Terrorist attacks on the Brooklyn Bridge, among others have been prevented.
That's a good thing, but it could have been done without violating the constitution and empowering the ruling regime.
Evil partial birth abortions have been almost completely banned.
I'm glad of that.
...and much more.
Better question is: How can you NOT like this president; he's done a FANTASTIC job. |
Yes, a fantastic job. Perhaps if you're wealthy and not in Iraq.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:49 pm |
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oberon, I'm moving to Kurdistan. That's in Iraq.
(Not literally, but I would. It's peaceful and rather beautiful there.)
Now let me argue piece by piece your ridiculous rebuttals:
| Quote: | | Freedom? Yes, the freedom to be attacked by groups who want the US out. |
No, oberon. The freedom to go out and vote and decide their own future--not one evil tyrant deciding that.
| Quote: | | At the cost of a bloody war begun with "false information". |
Maybe you don't think the ends justify the means, but I do. And means aside, it's a good thing, is it not?
| Quote: | | While being disenfranchised of our civil rights. |
Not true, and it's a different type of war than we've ever fought. And you acknowledge that we're being protected better, even though you say we're being disenfranchised of our civil rights. That's a good thing, not having another attack, is it not?
Plus, the Iraq policy's helped to defend against that too.
| Quote: | Taxes are down, government revenues are up. (Even better than expected)
Tax cuts for the wealthy? It's not helping me much. The gap between the middle class and the upper crust continues to widen. And revenues aren't even close to what they were when bush first took office. |
The tax cuts AREN'T only for the wealthy. For instance, my extremely middle class friend's parents got tax cuts which really helped them.
And actually, my friend, government revenues went up $1.4 billion last year. That's a hell of a lot of money. What you mean to say is the amount of money the government has is down.
| Quote: | | While the kids' names and addresses are divulged with the help of no child left behind for military recruiters to feed from. |
Elaborate, because that just seems so ridiculous. I have never heard of that. And so now you want to stop military recruitment in public schools? Move to San Francisco, will ya?
| Quote: | | I can't argue with that.. though the minorities which he chose are the minority within their ethnic groups. Backing from African-Americans for the president is down substantially and for good reason. |
Really? I thought they were up. 
| Quote: | Economy is skyrocketing, jobless rate is plummeting.
As compared to his first term. There was a surpluss when Clinton left office and now there's a gargantuan deficite |
Actually, it was before the last election that the economy went on the up-turn. You can make it sound all bad as you wish, but that doesn't change the fact that it's wrong. Unemployment is as low as the middle of Clinton's term. And keep in mind that Bush inherited a recession from Clinton...
And the economy is different from government spending I do agree with you, though, that Bush has been a madman when it comes to spending. Barring Katrina, 9/11, and Iraq he's STILL the worst spender in US history. I would expect someone like you to hold that position.
| Quote: | | Perhaps by your standards. |
Nope. Perhaps by truth.
| Quote: | Terrorist attacks on the Brooklyn Bridge, among others have been prevented.
That's a good thing, but it could have been done without violating the constitution and empowering the ruling regime. |
Tell me how?
| Quote: | | Yes, a fantastic job. Perhaps if you're wealthy and not in Iraq. |
I have a friend. The same friend as I said before. Right in the middle class range. Right in the middle of it. He thinks he's done a fantastic job. So do others around that position. So I don't know where you're coming from...
And besides. My parents aren't wealthy. We're having some good-sized cutbacks this year, particularly with Christmas. My dad's even threatened to sell the house if spending didn't go better--two or three times. And yet I think he's done a fantastic job, and so does my dad. So again, I don't know where you're coming from with that statement.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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oberon
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 106
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| Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:55 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | oberon, I'm moving to Kurdistan. That's in Iraq.
(Not literally, but I would. It's peaceful and rather beautiful there.)
Now let me argue piece by piece your ridiculous rebuttals:
| Quote: | | Freedom? Yes, the freedom to be attacked by groups who want the US out. |
No, oberon. The freedom to go out and vote and decide their own future--not one evil tyrant deciding that.
| Quote: | | At the cost of a bloody war begun with "false information". |
Maybe you don't think the ends justify the means, but I do. And means aside, it's a good thing, is it not?
| Quote: | | While being disenfranchised of our civil rights. |
Not true, and it's a different type of war than we've ever fought. And you acknowledge that we're being protected better, even though you say we're being disenfranchised of our civil rights. That's a good thing, not having another attack, is it not?
Plus, the Iraq policy's helped to defend against that too.
| Quote: | Taxes are down, government revenues are up. (Even better than expected)
Tax cuts for the wealthy? It's not helping me much. The gap between the middle class and the upper crust continues to widen. And revenues aren't even close to what they were when bush first took office. |
The tax cuts AREN'T only for the wealthy. For instance, my extremely middle class friend's parents got tax cuts which really helped them.
And actually, my friend, government revenues went up $1.4 billion last year. That's a hell of a lot of money. What you mean to say is the amount of money the government has is down.
| Quote: | | While the kids' names and addresses are divulged with the help of no child left behind for military recruiters to feed from. |
Elaborate, because that just seems so ridiculous. I have never heard of that. And so now you want to stop military recruitment in public schools? Move to San Francisco, will ya?
| Quote: | | I can't argue with that.. though the minorities which he chose are the minority within their ethnic groups. Backing from African-Americans for the president is down substantially and for good reason. |
Really? I thought they were up.
| Quote: | Economy is skyrocketing, jobless rate is plummeting.
As compared to his first term. There was a surpluss when Clinton left office and now there's a gargantuan deficite |
Actually, it was before the last election that the economy went on the up-turn. You can make it sound all bad as you wish, but that doesn't change the fact that it's wrong. Unemployment is as low as the middle of Clinton's term. And keep in mind that Bush inherited a recession from Clinton...
And the economy is different from government spending I do agree with you, though, that Bush has been a madman when it comes to spending. Barring Katrina, 9/11, and Iraq he's STILL the worst spender in US history. I would expect someone like you to hold that position.
| Quote: | | Perhaps by your standards. |
Nope. Perhaps by truth.
| Quote: | Terrorist attacks on the Brooklyn Bridge, among others have been prevented.
That's a good thing, but it could have been done without violating the constitution and empowering the ruling regime. |
Tell me how?
| Quote: | | Yes, a fantastic job. Perhaps if you're wealthy and not in Iraq. |
I have a friend. The same friend as I said before. Right in the middle class range. Right in the middle of it. He thinks he's done a fantastic job. So do others around that position. So I don't know where you're coming from...
And besides. My parents aren't wealthy. We're having some good-sized cutbacks this year, particularly with Christmas. My dad's even threatened to sell the house if spending didn't go better--two or three times. And yet I think he's done a fantastic job, and so does my dad. So again, I don't know where you're coming from with that statement. |
I'm done. You've made me feel ill with your idiotic responses. Please, we're at war. That's usually not a good thing. Or didn't you know that? Well I have news for you buddy, your dear president is nearing the end of his rule. The people won't be coaxed by your smooth talking texan candidates in the future, I can guarantee it. I'm done posting in this forum. Merry fricken Christmas, you've gotten your wish. 
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:59 pm |
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Or is it that perhaps you don't have a rebuttal? There's a time for stopping--when the arguments are circular and just plain not worth responding, but I don't see mine as. Why can't you come up with a response? And what was my wish? To prove that I can beat you in debate? I proved that weeks ago
No, seriously. I'm interested in your rebuttal. This is a pretty good debate
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:04 pm |
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| oberon wrote: | | I'm done. You've made me feel ill with your idiotic responses. Please, we're at war. That's usually not a good thing. Or didn't you know that? Well I have news for you buddy, your dear president is nearing the end of his rule. The people won't be coaxed by your smooth talking texan candidates in the future, I can guarantee it. I'm done posting in this forum. Merry fricken Christmas, you've gotten your wish. |
If his responses are so idiotic, why don't you counter them? It SHOULD be easy.
You're stumped, admit it, the facts go against the left.
Open your mind, and stop being so intolerant; I thought you people touted the fact that you were the tolerance party, that you were open to all opinions. Seems like it couldn't be further from the truth.
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:45 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | TrekkieMage wrote: | I thought it was a decent speech. However, why didn't he give it two years ago? Why did he wait until his ratings were so low that it's not going to do him much good?
Decent speech, aweful timing. He's trying to use it as a lifeboat. And it's not working.
I apreciate that he's taking responsibility. But why didn't he take responsibility before this? |
I don't think the timing was aweful, but I do agree that he should have given speeches like this periodically, as I said before. He was right to give it now, the Sunday after the election, but I do submit to you that you are correct in him having to give speeches like this before. It was late, but it was still good of him to do, and fine timing.
He took responsibility in the past, but I don't think it was that big of a deal that he didn't in prime-time until now. I just don't. It was good of him to admit his mistake, though.
And yes, Theresa, I do happen to think it changed people's minds, giving them a better perspective and him REACHING OUT to his critics. He needed to give it, to counter the anti-war media bias.
And finally, actually, Trekkie, it does him a lot more good than before. His approval ratings have gone up--or at least opinions of Iraq have--since he began consistently giving speeches, and this one, in prime-time and getting Oval Office coverage, did him one better. So, yeah, it helps him. |
Since I found most of the other responses a little childish, I'm gonna skip over them.
Yes, his ratings have gone up. But not by much, and I don't think the speech helped. Make take is this:
There was a lot of critisism before his ratings tanked, but they'd been creeping downwards (as far as I know, I could be wrong) for a while. Had he given a simiar speech a year or so ago, his ratings may not have tanked quite as bad.
However, Katrina is a major factor in his ratings, so that may not have helped too much. But he might have done more then. He might go down and help clean up or something, help hand out food, organize food, bring school supplies, anything. That would have helped him as well.
During his entire presidency his timing has been off. This speech is no exception. It was a decent speech, but he should have made it a while ago. It could have helped him more then.
He was reaching out to his critics, but why is this the first time in my memory that he's done this? He would have come off as being a lot stronger had he done that at every milestone of the war.
And I do give him kudos for his picking of timeslots - slipping in as the most popular show on TV starts was a brilliant move
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:55 pm |
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Good point, the last one. But I do agree with you. It took him too long to realize that he really needed to start countering the media and making himself look better. The timing was right in terms of being after the election, but it was off in that it shouldn't have taken him too long to make speeches like these. He should have been doing them continuously since the start of the war. It was good for him to do it when he did, but I do concur that it was awfully late to start really cracking out the speeches and reinforcing his positions. That's what Clinton did, and that's the only main reason he succeeded so well for so long in the polls and the elections. He campaigned consistently. He didn't, IMO, know how to lead but he REALLY knew how to campaign, and that helped him. Bush should take that page out of the Clinton playbook.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:57 pm |
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Yeah. I still don't like Bush as a president, but I'll give him credit where credit is due. Although I find his little blitz of publicity very interesting. I don't know entirely what I make of it, but my initial response is to say that it looks rather like they're putting up a good face and flailing around behind the scenes.
As for Clinton's campaigning, a lot of what the presidency's about is a lot of talking, persuading, and compromising. Clinton nailed that aspect of it (except for Congress, he didn't communicate enough with them) and I don't think that Bush's administration quite figured out the public communications. Maybe the got it behind the scenes (I don't know, it was behind the scenes ), but they're starting to realize that they have a few more tactics they need to try.
Now the two big questions in my mind about Bush's presidency: will he be investigated for the NSA spying? Not an opinion or and expectation, just a question that most people are asking. And what are his polls going to do? Will his words make up for his actions, will his words equal is actions, will his actions back up his words? Who knows.
I'm sorry if this is a bit incoherant, I'm a tad on the groggy side
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:10 pm |
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On average his approval ratings have gone up 15% in the last month. Approval ratings on Iraq are up 11%. I think that America really cares more about Iraq than anything right now, and they're influenced by Bush's reinforcement of his goals, etc. That's how I see it, anyway.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:49 pm |
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True. But we don't know how the whole thing with the NSA is going to affect his ratings. A lot of people are unhappy with that. And we don't know if his administration is going to be investigated any more. My personal opinion is that there will be some more investigations (at least I hope there will be). But right now things are so mixed up its hard to tell.
And Iraq is one of the defining points of Bush's presidency, but so much is going on here in America at the moment, I think the focus will shift back here. For a little while anyways.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Dec 21, 2005 5:04 pm |
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I really don't think that as many Americans are upset over that as you think, considering that on average 70% of Americans support things like the Patriot Act and are fine with a little intruison for national security--especially when the President's reinforcing his positions and reinforcing that belief daily.
(Btw, averages of polls are the most accurate you can get, I would say.)
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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