Limited to American Media

Kira Sakuya · Crewman Joined: 28 Oct 2001 Posts: 2

Well it's nice that your so patriotic Karita. It's people like you that give us a reason to do something. Sure you can keep on asking where Hatter gets his information and all. But to me he keeps referring to things that are not shown on your T.V. Do you really believe that they would show you anything that would make America look bad? All they've been trying to do, besides show how innocent people died here, is to make America look like a Matryl to the world. Of course our president hasn't starved us. Of course not, most of us would be too selfish to even let them tax us just a bit more for anything. But what about America starving other countries? Take a look at Iraq, it wasn't enough that we won a battle against them, but did we have to block their borders and kill their people just cause we got pinched in the balls? Don't be so one sided as to say we are the good in the world. We all have our sides. Of course we should fight back for the attack in NY, but don't try to cover up our bloody blades with pretty words. We are as 'evil' as Bush had called Laddin.

Natira · **Mon Oct 29, 2001 6:29 pm**

I never once asked for anything on the TV. If it were so obvious, then there would be sources in other places, besides your opinions. Some of us might be bad, but this country's functions, is nothing like thiers.

Kira Sakuya · Crewman Joined: 28 Oct 2001 Posts: 2

I never said you wanted anything on TV. I used that as an example to say that most people get their facts from censored media such as the news. Limits. And how is America starving Iraq a opinion? My only opinion was to say that your ignorance leads to your believe that anything that slightly goes against your ideals of a nation is bad. You tend to look at it from a single angle, rambling unoriginal ideas that you've learned as you grew up because you didn't think enough to find the whole facts about your own nation. All cultures have their own views on things and how to live lives. Does that mean you should be so limited to see it your own way. Try looking at it differently.

Mad_Hatter757 · **Mon Oct 29, 2001 6:42 pm**

Proof that he cheated? it was all over the news and the net narita, they just didnt have ENOUGH evidence to kick him out of it but none the less their was evidence of it, that bush's people filled in invalid ballots that were not supposed to be counted cause they incorrectly were filled in or missed some information, and bush's people filled in the information for the ones voting for him, its illegal for them to do that, if anyone else saw it on the news, net, papers, and looking for it in other places of information, post your thoughts here

Natira · **Mon Oct 29, 2001 6:58 pm**

OK, if there had been cheating, the media would have been all over it. and there would have been more of an investigation. I am not being closed minded, I am, however not going to be swayed by just opinion. out of all of these posts, not one piece of evidence. Just what you say. Ever think that you could be the one who was swayed by the media?

Mad_Hatter757 · **Mon Oct 29, 2001 7:07 pm**

how could i have been swayed if i'm against half the things they say?,a investigationi really doubt, do we forget who has lots of money and power here? this is bush we're talking about, and the news was all over it but it eventually died down after a few days, if i was swayed by the media i'd love bush their making him look like he's our messiah when he'll probably bring us into world war 3 with that moron bin laden, maybe if america didn't have such a horrible foreign policy and stop pushing it so heavily on other peoples country this wouldn't have happened just because we're a super power in the world dont mean we should push our ideals on everyone whether they be considered "good" or "evil"

Natira · **Mon Oct 29, 2001 7:46 pm**

Whatever, I am saying that you might have gotten your opinions from watching tabloids and such, who will do anything for a buck. You know, other forms of media, other than respectable ones like CNN MSN and such. I am not going to continue to post in here. You obviosly dont want to bring up any source at all, so I'm not going to sit here and listen to your insults.

Mad_Hatter757 · **Mon Oct 29, 2001 7:51 pm**

when did i ever insult you?, and i gave you sources, newspapers, the tv, the internet, word of mouth, i mean if your so eager to know of my sources its a click away by typing in what i'm talking about and going to yahoo or google.com

Natira · **Mon Oct 29, 2001 8:02 pm**

I didnt say you insulted me, just the nation. And TV and Newspapers and such, are not sources, those are categories of sources. I want to know where specifically you got this information.

Mad_Hatter757 · **Mon Oct 29, 2001 8:40 pm**

like i said you want source, look for it its so easy to find, heres one site for example http://www.algorewon.org/ just go into yahoo or google.com or msn, whichever you feel is reliable then type in the keywords for what your looking for like controversy of the election 2000 or whichever

Mad_Hatter757 · **Mon Oct 29, 2001 8:45 pm**

or if you want more "reliable" stuff you can goto http://www.washingtonpost.com and search for it

Mad_Hatter757 · **Mon Oct 29, 2001 8:53 pm**

sorry if it seems like i'm spamming but i'm just finding a buncha sites for you to read http://www.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/11/26/votes/index1.html

Theresa · **Mon Oct 29, 2001 9:12 pm**

Nice sources, but no hard evidence. And have you been paying attention to the American media in the past, oh, 30-35 years or so? Yes, they will tell us negative things that our country does. We have this thing, it's called the First Amendment, it allows the total freedom of speech. Ask Clinton how easy it is to manage a cover up. The media goes beyond the boundaries, they push, sometimes too hard, but they will get the story. And they don't have to run it by some government agent before they release the information.

Mad_Hatter757 · **Mon Oct 29, 2001 9:17 pm**

of course theirs not gonna be total hard solid proof i mean bush is a mason and he has his advisors i mean they can cover alot of things up but not everything, and if the Govt Wants something hidden it stays hidden 70% of the time, news media cant find everything out, and they cant tell the media everything on alot of things i mean you've seen where they've had interviews in the whitehouse and when a reporter asks a certain question the person dont like its always "sorry i cant answer that" or "its a matter of national security" i know ppl need to stand behind someone right now, and sadly its bush, but i still think so many other presidents were better qualified then him

Theresa · **Mon Oct 29, 2001 9:25 pm**

Mad_Hatter757 · **Mon Oct 29, 2001 9:32 pm**

well thats the problem with trusting media and the govt's words, its always what they want you to know, and i'm glad your proud to be a american not many ppl are proud of who they are these days, but i never considered myself from where i'm born that i have to act a certain way, and i know alot of people hate me or think i'm some misguided person by bashing our nation, but i gotta say what i feel i guess, i just dont like how the media's been lately *they really REALLY pi**ed me off with the john lennon tribute* i mean for a man they wanted to kick out of the country they know praise his words, and i'm a fan so it kinda ticked me off i guess, i'm sorry if i'm getting everyone ready to grab a bat but i'm just saying everyone shouldn't be so one sided, it helps to have as many doors open as possible, i always have at least 10 answers to one question, one never being the definite but probably the most probable, i mean hell maybe bush may be a nice guy and i'm just one of those psycho anti govt conspiraters who stay up 3 in the morning making up bs about the govt, but i guess everyone is getting crazy with everything going on, i'm not saying i'm right or wrong, i'm just trying to get ppl to open their minds more a bit

[ This Message was edited by: Natira on 2001-10-30 11:45 ]

Theresa · **Mon Oct 29, 2001 9:40 pm**

I am totally open minded. I research every candidate before I vote, learn everything I can about them, and never vote according to party, but according to person. And I am not proud to be an American only because I was born here. I am proud of my heritage, and where I come from, something which I have also researched. Like I said, yes, we have our bad spots, like slavery, but so do other countries. Alot still employ that today. We have grown more in the last hundred years than any other time. And we are getting better. We are still young, but we are learning.

(all of the guys in England and elsewhere, you all know how patriotic I am,

, so please don't take anything personally, I am NOT putting down any other country.)

Mad_Hatter757 · **Mon Oct 29, 2001 9:51 pm**

yes i can see your alot more accepting to others opinions and ideas and you can see that we do have our faults and we do have our bad side, i just didn't like how everyone kept reffering our battle as "good against evil" our war is nothing like that, thanks for being more accepting of other peoples opinions unlike some other people, i figured a star trek forum would contain people much more enlightnend then the average person, i guess some aren't

Theresa · **Mon Oct 29, 2001 9:56 pm**

I hope you aren't referring to Natira. If you want to see me get emotional, just say something negative about her. On that subject, my mind is not open. She's my sister.
And she is very passionate, as am I, about what she beleives. She also wants to learn, that is why she was asking for specific sources, so that she could check them for herself. Neither one of us are the kind of people who'd just "take your word for it".
And personally, I think bin Laden is a very good representation of what is evil. Killing innocent civilians, not only ours, but his, infants lying dead in the streets, I don't see anything admirable, or redeemable in that.
And thank you for realizing I am not trying to pick a fight w/ anyone.

Mad_Hatter757 · **Mon Oct 29, 2001 10:10 pm**

of course bin laden can be seen as evil, but i still think that doesn't give us the right to call ourselves good

Theresa · **Mon Oct 29, 2001 10:18 pm**

No, the whole country is not good. Again, it is made up of people, so there is no way that everyone can be good. But we are definitely better than most. And in that, I am including England and others, (as the better than most, not the ones the US is better than). But overall, this is a great place to live. Where else can you sit here and say anything negative about your government? Not alot of places. We are human, which means we are fallible, so we will always have problems, but how we cope w/ them shows our true character, too.

Mad_Hatter757 · **Mon Oct 29, 2001 10:25 pm**

how are we better then england? i thought america was a pretty messed up place just like other countries but i guess i got to spend a lifetime in everyone of those places if i can back up that opinion, i dunno i guess its just sad we have to live in this kinda world? i think the ability to ever have a star trek type universe where the goal is to explore and better ourselves, is a LONG LONG way from us, i guess until things become like that i'll have to be the one that just see's all the bad stuff and a few good things, btw what did you think of the john lennon tribute? did you see it or you a fan of him? i'll respond tommorrow i'm gonna go slip into a coma

Theresa · **Mon Oct 29, 2001 10:27 pm**

No, I thought I made it clear that I was including England in being better than others. Not us better than them. As for Lennon, no, I am not a fan, and I did not see the tribute.

Mad_Hatter757 · **Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:22 am**

Well Lennon, during vietnam use to speak of total peace and he basically hated fighting period thinking almost everything could be solved through dictatorship and he kinda bashed america too because they went against his values of peace and love, so basically everyone wanted to kick him out of the country but they never did of course, but now i see this john lennon tribute on Tv and this is from the same people who wanted to kick him out i mean the media hated his views as did some govt officials and people as well and now here they are praising his words, whever john lennon is he must be disgusted with these people, i mean using his words of peace when america's going to become so hostile on afghan now its like saying to someone lets talk this out and then shooting them, anyway i'll post later gtg out

Theresa · **Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:49 am**

So what exactly do you think is worth fighting for? Vietnam was Vietnam, that was then, this is now.