Boston - "Holiday" Tree stirs Controversy

teya · Commander Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 423

Don't people have bigger issues to argue about?

I'm a Pagan--a Witch, specifically (not a Wiccan, thank you). The tree that is currently dominating my living room is a Solstice Tree. It went up on the New Long Nights Moon and will come down during the Dark of the Moon.

I hope none of you Christians mind what I call the damn thing in the privacy of my own home.

In public? I really don't care what you call 'em, and I think it's a lot of hoo-ha about nothing. Most people look at 'em as Christmas trees, so it seems the most logical thing to call 'em.

However... I was raised Jewish, and while I'm all for wishing my Christian friends and relatives a Merry Christmas, it is a bit alienating when I see some folks--like many here--who *refuse* to say anything other than Merry Christmas. Does Theresa, when she says "Merry Christmas" on December 9th, mean to exclude everyone who celebrates a different holiday? Whether she means it that way or not, it comes across that way.

What is truly wrong with saying "Happy Holidays" when you're speaking to a group?

Leo Wyatt · **Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:50 pm**

Cause it is getting away from God.

oberon · Lieutenant, Junior Grade Joined: 26 Sep 2005 Posts: 106

teya · Commander Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 423

Leo Wyatt · **Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:04 pm**

They will get a holiday greeting when I say Merry Christmas . No one will tell me that I have to say Happy Holiday. I will stand on what I believe in and I will stand up for Jesus. Like non christians will stand up for what they believe. You can whine all you want on how that we christians must say Happy Holiday just to please people who complains.

If anyone complains about me say Merry Christmas well they just going to have to tolerate it cause as I said I will stand up for what I believe in.

teya · Commander Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 423

No one's whining.

I don't celebrate Christmas, but I'll wish my Christian friends and family a Merry Christmas. It's simply being polite.

Maybe you don't care enough about other peoples' feelings to consider that not everyone believes as you do. That's okay. There's no law saying you have to be polite.

So long as you're not claiming that this is a Christian nation and that we all have to be Christian to be American, it's no skin off my back. I'll take your "Merry Christmas" as if delivered with good spirit and say it right back to you.

Leo Wyatt · **Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:12 pm**

Oberon I am not ignorant.

Leo Wyatt · **Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:14 pm**

No it is other people's that don't care. Like I said. I am not backing down and I will stand up. I won't repeat again.

You believe what you believe and I'll believe what I believe.

teya · Commander Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 423

Leo Wyatt · **Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:42 pm**

No, that is not what I am talking about. People who wants Christmas to not exist cause they just want Happy Holidays. They are taking freedom of christians away like usual but we christians are not going to just sit back and do nothing while people want to take Jesus out of Christmas.

Theresa · **Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:47 pm**

The person who can tell on sight if a person is Christian, raise your hand. Now, does this Christian celebrate Christmas? If so, do they have a tree, or do they beleive that it is too far removed from the true spirit of Christmas?
From the way things are going, everyone is going to walk around with their eyes on the ground for fear of offending someone else.
I find the NYY offensive, does that mean you can't wear their gear around me? No, not reallly.
I don't care what they call the tree, I do, however, care that they are slowly eroding individuality. And yeah, they are, because as I stated earlier, there is quite a simple solution to all of this.

teya · Commander Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 423

Who wants that? All "Happy Holidays" does is include *everyone*--even those who don't celebrate Christmas.

You say you won't wish anyone "Happy Holidays." I don't celebrate Christmas. Does that mean you wouldn't wish me holiday greetings? That would say that you feel that anyone who celebrates a holiday other than Christmas isn't worthy of your good wishes.

That's kinda Grinchy.

Leo Wyatt · **Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:51 pm**

No it is not grinchy. I won't say Happy holiday as I said just to keep people from complaining. I won't bow down.

Theresa · **Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:52 pm**

teya · Commander Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 423

Lord Borg · **Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:02 pm**

Theresa · **Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:02 pm**

teya · Commander Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 423

IntrepidIsMe · **Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:41 pm**

I guess he didn't know that "Christmas" Trees started out as a pagan tradition.... I guess that just goes to show how unknowledgeable some people are.

Anyway, I'm into the whole "Happy Holidays" seen. It's easier and more polite than having to ask what religion a person follows (or lack, thereof), and then to give them the appropriate salutation.

oberon · Lieutenant, Junior Grade Joined: 26 Sep 2005 Posts: 106

Republican_Man · **Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:52 pm**

I don't care what you call it in the privacy of your own home. But the fact is, in America, it is a Chistmas Tree, and the debate is over what it's called in the public square (including stores, as well). THAT'S what the real issue is. I'm more than likely to say "Merry Christmas" than anything else--unless I know the person, like, say, one of my friends or my AP Human Geo teacher who are both Jewish, does not celebrate it.

What's also disgusting is how we're too scared, now, to admit what the two-week break across the country REALLY is. On June 26th, 1870, former President Ulyssess S. Grant signed Christmas Break into law. Now, because we're "offending" people--even though most aren't offended--we have to call it "Winter Break," as my younger brother's school is doing. What a bunch of hooey! Now, I can understand the will to be accepting of everyone, but I talked with that Hindu kid from India again today. He said "No" when I asked him if he was offended by the terms Christmas Tree, Christmas Lights, and Christmas Break. NO! And yesterday, my JEWISH AP Human Geography teacher said "Over Christams..." when talking about something that he wants us to do over Christmas Break. Even HE acknowledges it--and he's a devout Jew, for Cripes' Sake!
If you want to change the name, go through the legislature or courts, as you should. Otherwise, don't do this politically incorrect nonesense about not calling it what it IS. Christmas is a FEDERAL HOLIDAY and the term "Christmas Break" is the name for the 2-week nation-wide vacation, because, uh, Christmas happens to fall during that time.

If you want to call it Solstice Tree, as your religion calls it, in your home, I'm fine with that. If you want to say "Happy Holidays" on the street, I'm fine with that. It's within your rights to do so. Entirely.

But otherwise, Pagans are a minutely small minority in America, and the tree has been adopted as Christmas Tree for a long time. Let's keep it that way. It's not doing any harm. Same with Christmas lights. Same with Christmas Break.
Besides, every kid in America knows how big Christmas is in this country, anyways--regardless of their religion.

I hope to, this week, get Jon Gibson's book The War on Christmas, which includes TONS of stories that even some of you can agree are horrible. I can post some of them on here then.

Heck, finally, I said "Merry Christmas" to the Hindu guy, knowing that he doesn't celebrate it, but nothing happened. He wasn't offended. He just said that he wanted some Christmas cookies and fudge next class, if I could bring him one of each

So, yeah. I don't see the big hub-ub, if almost no one is offended.
I've spoken with several others--including my Jewish friend--about Christmas in the past, and there's no offense there.

Oh, and by the way. I personally don't think that non-Christians should celebrate Christmas, but I'm not going to tell anyone not to. I did last year to an athiest friend of mine. but this year I will not be, because that's not right.

Anyways...July 26, 1870: Christmas declared a FEDERAL HOLIDAY. If you wanna change it, go to the courts and legislature. Don't do what's being done now. Thank God people are stopping this, getting in an uproar and getting armies of lawyers ready to combat the ACLU, and mayors putting a stop to it in their cities as well.

IntrepidIsMe · **Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:57 pm**

We also happen to realize that two other rather major holidays fall at about the same time as Christmas? In 1870 there were pracatically no other people here besides those of European decent. Of course it would be "Christmas Break" then. But why waste the energy changing it now. Besides, winter break is in February.

Republican_Man · **Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:58 pm**

IntrepidIsMe · **Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:06 pm**

Is it illegal for them to call this particular period of vacation "Winter Break?" Is there a set list of laws saying "From the 20th-30th is CHRISTMAS BREAK?" If there isn't, then I don't see a problem.

However, if it violates any laws, then of course it isn't right.

oberon · Lieutenant, Junior Grade Joined: 26 Sep 2005 Posts: 106

The fact of the matter is that not everyone is christian. So you shouldn't respect the minority in this country? I was under the impression that it was the "melting pot". What's wrong with changing the word? You don't have to change your beliefs you know. What is the problem with accomodating the people who don't share your beliefs in an attempt to bring everyone closer together in this season instead of refusing to "bow down"?