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Republican_Man
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 Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:24 pm Saddam Tells Judge: 'Go to Hell' |
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Just to say, this is NOT a topic for debate on withdrawal from Iraq! No. It's about Saddam's trial and stuff. If you want to debate withdrawal, please go to the stickied topic.
At any rate...
| Fox News wrote: | Saddam Tells Judge: 'Go to Hell'
Tuesday, December 06, 2005
BAGHDAD, Iraq � Saddam Hussein told the judge overseeing his trial in Iraq to "go to hell" Tuesday and threatened not to return to an "unjust court" when it reconvenes on Wednesday.
After five witnesses gave horrific testimony of torture allegedly overseen by Saddam -- there are two more witnesses to hear from this week before the Dec. 15 election in Iraq -- court was preparing to adjourn for the day when the deposed dictator jumped to his feet and complained that the court was "deliberately hauling defendants before the trial when they are exhausted."
He complained that he had no fresh clothes, and that he had been deprived of shower and exercise facilities.
"This is terrorism," he said.
Chief Judge Rizgar Mohammed Amin cut him off, saying proceedings will resume on Wednesday.
Saddam then told the judge and "all the agents of America" to "go to hell" and said he would not return to court.
At that point, the audio was cut off to the media gallery and the curtain drawn so reporters could not tell what transpired afterward.
Earlier, Saddam sat stone-faced in a Baghdad courtroom as a woman testified behind a curtain that the former Iraqi president's henchmen beat her as a teenager and forced her to take her clothes off.
The woman, identified only as "Witness A," told the court that she was taken into custody after the 1982 assassination attempt against the former Iraqi president in the town of Dujail. She often cried during her testimony and repeated that she was forced to undress, implying that she had been raped but not saying so outright. She also testified of horrific torture imposed upon inmates at Abu Ghraib prison and elsewhere while Saddam was in power.
"I begged them, but they hit with their pistols," she said in a voice that was electronically altered. "They made me put my legs up. There were five or more and they treated me like a banquet. Is that what happens to the virtuous woman that Saddam speaks about?"
Amin then advised her to stick to the facts.
Amin said that defense attorneys would be told the identity of the witness but they must not pass the information to anyone outside the tribunal. Witnesses have the option of not having their identities revealed as a security measure to protect them against reprisals by Saddam loyalists. The first two witnesses � both males who took the stand Monday � allowed their names to be announced and their faces seen.
The woman was the first witness of the fourth session of the trial taking place in the heavily guarded Green Zone. Defense lawyers at first complained they could not hear her scrambled voice, but the equipment modifying it was fixed after a brief recess.
Shiite victims of a 1982 crackdown confronted the former leader and his seven lieutenants on trial for the killing of more than 140 Shiites in the town of Dujail north of Baghdad. They could be executed by hanging if convicted. The crackdown followed an assassination attempt, which Saddam told the court Tuesday was ordered by Iran.
Tortured Witnesses Blame Saddam
The woman witness, who said she was 16 at the time of the Dujail incident, said Wadah al-Sheik, an Iraqi intelligence officer who died of cancer last month, ordered her to take off her clothes.
"He raised my legs up and tied up my hands. He continued administering electric shocks and beating me," she said.
She also said al-Sheik fired a gun at the wall to scare her.
When asked by the judge which of the defendants she wanted to accuse, "Witness A" identified Saddam. "When so many people are jailed and tortured, who takes such a decision?" she said.
She later quoted a security officer as telling her, "You should thank your God because you are here in the Intelligence Center. If you were in the directorate of security, no woman would remain virgin." Nevertheless, she also said that many fellow female detainees lost their virginity to security guards.
The witness said she was thrown into a room with red walls and ceiling in an intelligence department building and that prisoners were given only bread and water to eat.
"I could not even eat because of the torture," she said. She said prisoners were later moved to Abu Ghraib prison where the torture continued. The rooms at Abu Ghraib were full of bugs she said, adding that prisoners were forced to use paper to cover their feet and pieces of the blankets as underwear and socks since they weren't given any shoes or real clothing.
She said one woman gave birth in the prison. "The baby got stuck between her legs. Another woman tried to help her, but the guards told her it was none of her business. The baby suffocated between her legs," she said. She said her sister and sister-in-law also gave birth while in detention.
Men were put in front of the children and told to run; if anyone stopped, they were hit with cables, the woman testified. Men were also placed in front of women naked and beaten on their sexual organs, she said, adding that her younger brother was beaten with cables more than 50 times.
After her secret testimony, the unidentified woman appeared in open court under a rule that allows defendants to face their accusers. Instead of ordering the cameras to be turned away, the judge cut all the audio and translation and drew a curtain on the press area in the back of the courtroom.
A second female witness could not be heard at all because the judge had her microphone turned off after deciding he didn't like the sound of the electronically-altered voice. And there was no way the translator could hear the woman without a microphone.
"Witness C," a man, testified that he was taken by security forces along with his parents and two infant sisters. They spent 19 days at the intelligence headquarters and 11 months in Abu Ghraib, where his father died after being beaten on the head, he said. Then they spent three years in the desert.
"At the intelligence headquarters, they put two clips in my ears," the witness said, adding that he was told that if he lied, he would be given an electric shock. When he answered a question, the shock was administered, he said.
"In prison they used to bring men to the women's room and ask them to bark like dogs," he said. "My father died in prison and I was not able to see him." He added that his father, who was 65 and had heart problems, was kept in a room about 50 yards from him.
That prompted an outburst from Saddam, who complained of his own conditions in detention. He said the court had time to listen to the witnesses' complaints "but does anyone ask Saddam Hussein whether he was tortured? Whether he was hit?"
He urged the judge to investigate his conditions because "it is your duty as judges to investigate the crime at its scene."
"I live in an iron cage covered by a tent under American democratic rule. You are supposed to come see my cage," he told Amin. "Please, Mr. Judge, do not accept any insult to Iraq. It doesn't matter if he insults Saddam Hussein, because the Americans and the Zionists want to execute Saddam Hussein. What does the execution of Saddam Hussein matter? He has given himself to Iraq from the day he was at school and has been sentenced to death three times already. Saddam Hussein and his comrades are not afraid of execution."
Sainab Salbi, who now lives in the United States, said she has mixed feelings watching Saddam's trial. Salbi grew up in Iraq during Saddam's reign; her father was Saddam's pilot. "You can't say 'no' to the devil,' she said.
Salbi, now the president of Women for Women International and author of the book, "Between Two Worlds," told FOX News that there is still an aura of fear among the Iraqi people that they could still someday suffer the former so-called Butcher of Baghdad's wrath.
"It's a mixture of feelings. You still have that fear because every single Iraqi family has stories of atrocities about how they suffered under Saddam's thumb," she said Tuesday.
But she said it's very important Saddam get a fair trial "because I look at this trial as a way for Iraqis to document their history" and have a dialogue about where they want the country to go, she added. "So I see it as a very important historical opportunity."
Stories of Shiite Torture
The Tuesday hearing began after a dramatic, often chaotic day Monday when the trial's first witnesses offered chilling accounts of killings and torture using electric shocks and a grinder during a 1982 crackdown against Shiites.
One witness said he saw a machine that "looked like a grinder" with hair and blood on it in a secret police center in Baghdad where he and others were tortured for 70 days. He said detainees were kept in "Hall 63."
The trial's first witness, Ahmed Hassan Mohammed, delivered a rambling, nearly two-hour account of the events in Dujail in retaliation for an armed attack on Saddam's convoy.
Mohammed recalled how security agents rounded up townspeople of all ages, from 14 to more than 70.
"There were mass arrests. Women and men. Even if a child was 1-day-old, they used to tell his parents, 'Bring him with you,"' Mohammed said.
He said the agents took him and the others to the intelligence headquarters in Baghdad, where they were tortured before being transferred to Abu Ghraib prison.
Mohammed said his brother, who was at 17 at the time, was tortured while his 77-year-old father watched. Interrogators threatened to rape the prisoners' daughters and sisters if the men did not sign confessions, he said.
"Some men just said 'I will sign anything but leave my sisters alone,'" he said.
Mohammed, who was 15 at the time, said he himself was tortured. "They blindfolded me, but I was so young, it kept falling." At the Baghdad detention center, he saw "a machine that looked like a grinder and had some blood and hair" on it, and "I saw bodies of people from Dujail."
The witness exchanged insults with Ibrahim, Saddam's half brother, telling him "you killed a 14-year-old boy."
"Go to hell," replied Ibrahim, who was intelligence chief at the time.
"You and your children go to hell," the witness replied.
The judge then asked them to avoid such exchanges.
As the testimony continued, Saddam's lawyers objected that someone in the visitors' gallery was making threatening gestures and should be removed. Ibrahim leaped to his feet, spat in the direction of the gallery, and shouted, "These are criminals."
The judge ordered the person removed from the gallery.
Mohammed, fighting back tears, described how there had been "random arrests in the streets, all the forces of the (Baath) party, and Thursday became 'Judgment Day' and Dujail has become a battle front."
"Shootings started and nobody could leave or enter Dujail. At night, intelligence agents arrived headed by Barazan" Ibrahim, he said.
Ibrahim interrupted him: "I am a patriot and I was the head of the intelligence service of Iraq."
But Ibrahim also contested Mohammed's testimony, insisting there was no "Hall 63" and no place in the intelligence building large enough to accommodate as many prisoners as the witness said were there.
The second witness, Jawad Abdul-Aziz Jawad, who was only 10 when the assassination attempt occurred, testified that Iraqi helicopters attacked the town and used bulldozers to destroy the fields and orchards.
Jawad said Saddam's regime killed three of his brothers, one before the assassination attempt and two afterward.
Earlier, Mohammed said he was told that Saddam asked a 15-year-old boy if he knew who he was. "He said 'Saddam'. Then Saddam hit him in the head with an ash tray."
The testimony drew an angry response from Saddam, who suggested that Mohammed needed psychiatric treatment and accused the court of bowing to American pressure.
"When the revolution of the heroic Iraq arrives, you will be held accountable," Saddam warned the chief judge.
"This is an insult to the court," Amin responded. "We are searching for the truth."
Saddam told Amin he hoped "that you will endure my frankness."
"How can a judge like yourself accept a situation like this?" Saddam asked. "This game must not continue. If you want Saddam Hussein's neck, you can have it. I have exercised my constitutional prerogatives after I had been the target of an armed attack.
When Mohammed objected to some of Saddam's remarks, the former president snapped: "Do not interrupt me, son."
Source |
What a fricken idiot. Saddam, why aren't you saying that to your evil self? It's inspiring, seeing him on trial. I wasn't around for any of the Nazi trials, and other big trials like that, so to me this is just amazing and enlightening. It's great that this man is out of power and is facing justice--which he just can't stand.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Republican_Man
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| Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:09 am |
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Awww, poor Saddam. While people are testifying about the atrocities he committed, he's complaining about not being treated right--not having a clean pair of underwear and the like. Oooh, poor baby. Poor little dicatator? Is the tough evil villain not liking a little treatment not up to par? Oh, I feel sorry for you. It must be tough for you to boycott the trial of you by your fellow Iraqis...Poor baby. Complaining about not getting a "just trial." Aww...Well, you know what? Screw you Saddam! Are you NOT listening to the statements of these witnesses, hmmm? Oh, you sure as hell aren't, you evil dictator you. So stop moping and not going to your trial and just go through with it! You did evil acts, and now you're going to get punished for it! Oooh, but poor dictator! You tortured your Iraqi people and yet are complaining about treatment that's not up to par. Oh, too bad, so sad. NOT! Idiot. What an idiot.
You know what's interesting, though? Saddam's argument right now is quite similar to that of a lot of the Democrats/Liberals in the prominent positions and stuff. I find that interesting. But I digress.
Saddam, you're getting what's justly coming to you! But wait. You can't handle the truth! You're out of power. Your evil sons are dead. You're no longer running a regime of terror. Cry me a river.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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webtaz99
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| Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:55 pm |
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As long as he attends the execution.....
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"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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oberon
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Joined: 26 Sep 2005
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| Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:54 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | Awww, poor Saddam. While people are testifying about the atrocities he committed, he's complaining about not being treated right--not having a clean pair of underwear and the like. Oooh, poor baby. Poor little dicatator? Is the tough evil villain not liking a little treatment not up to par? Oh, I feel sorry for you. It must be tough for you to boycott the trial of you by your fellow Iraqis...Poor baby. Complaining about not getting a "just trial." Aww...Well, you know what? Screw you Saddam! Are you NOT listening to the statements of these witnesses, hmmm? Oh, you sure as hell aren't, you evil dictator you. So stop moping and not going to your trial and just go through with it! You did evil acts, and now you're going to get punished for it! Oooh, but poor dictator! You tortured your Iraqi people and yet are complaining about treatment that's not up to par. Oh, too bad, so sad. NOT! Idiot. What an idiot.
You know what's interesting, though? Saddam's argument right now is quite similar to that of a lot of the Democrats/Liberals in the prominent positions and stuff. I find that interesting. But I digress.
Saddam, you're getting what's justly coming to you! But wait. You can't handle the truth! You're out of power. Your evil sons are dead. You're no longer running a regime of terror. Cry me a river. |
You know, I don't think Saddam will read this..  Anyway, to seek justice through hate, you must realize, cures no wrongs that have been committed. Do you think any mistreatment makes Saddam feel any remorse for what he has done? I think you've shown your true colors in that post. Hate just breeds hate my friend.
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Republican_Man
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| Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:29 pm |
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And that is the most disgusting thing I've ever heard. Yes, I hate him--because of all the things he did. "Your true colors" my ass. I was just harping on him because he did all those awful things which you so clearly forget about, and yet he, who did all those torturous, evil things, is complaining about not having clean underwear? My gosh! What has he done to get you to defend him so much? Do you LIKE him? My point, which you so blatently refused to see, is that he did these rape rooms, torture chambers, and all those other things and now he's complaining about a little bit of not-so-great treatment is--that he's actually being treated like a PRISONER--even in a standard US prison? Oh, poor baby! And poor you, for sticking up for this man.
If anyone's shown their true colors in this topic, it's you.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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IntrepidIsMe
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| Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:38 pm |
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Smooth. Let's not make this personal.
In GQ a couple of months ago they had an article where they interviewed some of the soldiers guarding Hussein, and yeah, he wasn't exactly treated very well. He wasn't even given toilet paper (according to the guards), which is just disgusting.
Anyway, I'm not defending him, but I'm not going to condemn him either. I can admit that I may not know the whole story, however all the evidence points to him being a malevolent dictator that deserves everything short of the death penalty (which is of course, just a personal issue).
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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oberon
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| Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:43 pm |
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You know, I'm sorry that I'm not hateful enough to measure up to your standards Republican_Man. I'm certainly not defending anything Saddam has done, but he's a human being and deserves to be treated as such. And I absolutely don't wish death on anyone. Didn't your mother ever teach you that two wrongs don't make a right? 
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Republican_Man
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| Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:55 pm |
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Did I EVER say that I supported bad treatment? No, I did not. I was only snickering at the poor dictator for what he did under his regime and what he's complaining about now. Nothing wrong with that.
And he is, by the way, getting HARDLY ANY BAD TREATMENT! It's not even close to Abu Ghraib, for Cripes' sake!
Yeah, I don't see a big deal with a little unkind treatment to him. Not at all, even though I'm not saying that I support it. I only condone it.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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oberon
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| Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:00 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | Did I EVER say that I supported bad treatment? No, I did not. I was only snickering at the poor dictator for what he did under his regime and what he's complaining about now. Nothing wrong with that.
And he is, by the way, getting HARDLY ANY BAD TREATMENT! It's not even close to Abu Ghraib, for Cripes' sake!
Yeah, I don't see a big deal with a little unkind treatment to him. Not at all, even though I'm not saying that I support it. I only condone it. |
| Quote: | | You tortured your Iraqi people and yet are complaining about treatment that's not up to par. Oh, too bad, so sad. NOT! Idiot. What an idiot. |
| Quote: | | Saddam, you're getting what's justly coming to you! |
Semantics? I think so. 
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Republican_Man
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| Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:10 pm |
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Justly coming to you was about his eventual execution Be careful what you quote
I hate him for all the absolutely evil things he did, and I want him to face justice--which is why this trial is so enlightening, but I don't support the actions against him being held. I simply condone them (condone, n: to forgive or overlook an offense) because of the horrible things he did. I don't see why it's such a big deal--because it's NOT. Look at what he did. He's as evil as Hitler, and just as bad--only on a smaller scale.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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oberon
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| Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:13 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | Justly coming to you was about his eventual execution Be careful what you quote
I hate him for all the absolutely evil things he did, and I want him to face justice--which is why this trial is so enlightening, but I don't support the actions against him being held. I simply condone them (condone, n: to forgive or overlook an offense) because of the horrible things he did. I don't see why it's such a big deal--because it's NOT. Look at what he did. He's as evil as Hitler, and just as bad--only on a smaller scale. |
Excuse me but I think excecuting someone is bad treatment.  So sorry that you don't feel that way. He should be held without perole but should be treated with kindness. He had a mother who loved him and a life before his evildoings. How can you "overlook" that?
So you forgive people for mistreating him but not him for mistreating others? You are an enigma.
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Republican_Man
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| Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:19 pm |
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I don't even know how to respond to that. I just don't know. You are a sad, sad man.
Yeah, I forgive these people for treatment that isn't even bad--particularly because of the person it's toward--but not Saddam for all the atrocities he committed. He deserves death. The people he tortured and killed deserve justice. So for you to have the AUDACITY to compare my condoning of the treatment of Saddam--which is basically NOTHING--to me not condoning Saddam for what he did is just vile. I don't get you at all. Not at all.
I hope that God can forgive him, even though he's going to hell--of this I am quite sure--but I have NO REASON to. No reason at all.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Puck
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| Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:23 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | I don't even know how to respond to that. I just don't know. You are a sad, sad man.
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No personal attacks.
And just because you believe in the death penalty doesn't mean that other people think it is right. I for one am certainly not for it in most cases. The only reason I am for it now is because I think with such a high profile person, it is too dangerous for other people to keep him alive.
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Republican_Man
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| Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:25 pm |
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| Puck wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | I don't even know how to respond to that. I just don't know. You are a sad, sad man.
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No personal attacks.
And just because you believe in the death penalty doesn't mean that other people think it is right. I for one am certainly not for it in most cases. The only reason I am for it now is because I think with such a high profile person, it is too dangerous for other people to keep him alive. |
I never said anything about him not wanting the death penalty. If he has that belief, that's fine. I disagree with him, and tend to agree with you, though. I am more against it than for it. It depends on the offense. But clearly Saddam deserves it, but back to before--I never said anything against him for not supporting the death penalty for Saddam. No where did I say that.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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IntrepidIsMe
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| Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:46 pm |
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Well, if Hussein does get capital punishment, that would just make him a martyr in some people's eyes.
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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oberon
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
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| Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:29 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | I don't even know how to respond to that. I just don't know. You are a sad, sad man.
Yeah, I forgive these people for treatment that isn't even bad--particularly because of the person it's toward--but not Saddam for all the atrocities he committed. He deserves death. The people he tortured and killed deserve justice. So for you to have the AUDACITY to compare my condoning of the treatment of Saddam--which is basically NOTHING--to me not condoning Saddam for what he did is just vile. I don't get you at all. Not at all.
I hope that God can forgive him, even though he's going to hell--of this I am quite sure--but I have NO REASON to. No reason at all. |
The difference between our philosophies is that I believe that wrongdoings are wrongdoings. What goes around comes around. Kharma. You are willing to overlook some wrongful acts by way of rationalization. Humans are humans, despite their actions.
You're seeming a little hypocritical to me. Of course what Saddam has done is horrible beyond comprehension, but what's done is done. The only thing that can now be done is to keep him from the world, locked in a cell. However, I don't believe he should be mistreated. His remaining life served in prison with his thoughts and kind treatment from his captors will be a more severe punishment than death.
Last edited by oberon on Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Republican_Man
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| Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:31 pm |
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KIND TREATMENT from his captors in life in prison would be more severe than death? Uh...noooo... Death for this man, who killed so many and tortured so many, is the only right option. It is what he deserves. Puck has good reasons for agreeing with this, and even he is usually opposed to the death penalty.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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oberon
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| Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:35 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | KIND TREATMENT from his captors in life in prison would be more severe than death? Uh...noooo... Death for this man, who killed so many and tortured so many, is the only right option. It is what he deserves. Puck has good reasons for agreeing with this, and even he is usually opposed to the death penalty. |
How can you say that he deserves it? Do you really think that you're that important?
Kindness from his captors and life in prison would be a more severe punishment than death. Why don't you think about that sentence before you try to say otherwise.
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Republican_Man
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| Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:39 pm |
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How? HOW? I fail to see how kindness in prison and life would be enough--even CLOSE to that. Why do you want such a horrible man treated so kindly? SOOO kindly? The Iraqi people want him dead. That much is clear. And he is getting a fair trial, but judging from the evidence, his guilt and death is all but certain.
If he were to live--which he deserves to not do--then he should go to a forced labor camp to spend the rest of his life. That's what I think most death penalty cases should get, although I think this one is worth it. Look at his history. Do you deny his acts? I don't see how such a weak punishment is anywhere NEAR sufficent. It's not.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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oberon
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
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| Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:48 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | How? HOW? I fail to see how kindness in prison and life would be enough--even CLOSE to that. Why do you want such a horrible man treated so kindly? SOOO kindly? The Iraqi people want him dead. That much is clear. And he is getting a fair trial, but judging from the evidence, his guilt and death is all but certain.
If he were to live--which he deserves to not do--then he should go to a forced labor camp to spend the rest of his life. That's what I think most death penalty cases should get, although I think this one is worth it. Look at his history. Do you deny his acts? I don't see how such a weak punishment is anywhere NEAR sufficent. It's not. |
I suppose I'll have to spell it out for you. Life in prison, firstly, would be a much more difficult out for Saddam than death. Which would you prefer? I would choose death over confinement for life and I don't live in a palace. Secondly, Saddam is expecting poor treatment. Why would anyone treat him with kindness after his sordid history? Kindness is a keen weapon against such people. Do you think that making him wear dirty underwear will help to uncover his deeply burried concience? Before he dies, after being treated well by people who know of his deeds, he will regret his actions. I'm sure of it.
Last edited by oberon on Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Puck
The Texan
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| Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:49 pm |
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If he was by some chance allowed to live, (although I highly doubt that will happen) I do think that he should be treated in a humane manner. Sure, put him to work, doing something productive for soceity. The only reason I am for capital punishment is because I would be very concerned for the general publics safety if he were let live. I do want to make clear though, I am not for anything that would be torture, or inhumane, nor would I promote it. Although he has lost the right to live a free life, I don't think that anyone deserves to be denied of basic human dignity.
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Republican_Man
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| Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:50 pm |
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You are wrong. Blatently wrong. But this punishment goes down to personal beliefs to the core, so I'm done here.
(Oh, and by the way. I would prefer kind treatment in prison over death. Yes, I would. Saddam deserves a tough time in prision, if not death. I don't see how you could want any less than that. Again, I'm done.)
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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oberon
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 106
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| Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:54 pm |
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Very well spoken Puck. 
| Republican_Man wrote: |
(Oh, and by the way. I would prefer kind treatment in prison over death. Yes, I would. Saddam deserves a tough time in prision, if not death. I don't see how you could want any less than that. Again, I'm done.) |
How many peoples blood do you have on your hands?
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:57 pm |
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| Puck wrote: | | If he was by some chance allowed to live, (although I highly doubt that will happen) I do think that he should be treated in a humane manner. Sure, put him to work, doing something productive for soceity. The only reason I am for capital punishment is because I would be very concerned for the general publics safety if he were let live. I do want to make clear though, I am not for anything that would be torture, or inhumane, nor would I promote it. Although he has lost the right to live a free life, I don't think that anyone deserves to be denied of basic human dignity. |
I agree with you, overall, Puck. I am not for torture, nor do I condone acts of torture upon any human being. What I mean is that if for some reason he did get to live, I would not want an easy time in prison, and I would not like him to be treated oh-so-nicely. Not beaten or anything--no, that would be sinking to his level--but I just mean not being that nice to him. Not like a mother to her young son, but a mother to her trouble-making teenager, if you catch my drift.
And none, Oberon. But it is irrelivent.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:07 pm |
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I believe that all men were created in God's image. This belief provides that all men have the same basic nature and origin, and therefore, in all circumstances, the basic dignity of a human must be preserved. I am not sure of to what extent you mean when you talk about making Saddam's life hard, but if it obstructs or alienates his dignity as a human being, then I am against it.
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