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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
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 Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:18 pm Political Hostility |
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I've never seen so much hatred from a group of Americans towards a political figure as I have seen many liberals do towards this President. The left, including the media, hates this man, and even after his time in office they will still have an unfavorable opinion about him, like they do Reagan.
[Split from topic "How is President George W. Bush handling the Government?" - Puck]
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Link, the Hero of Time
Vice Admiral
Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 5581
Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:47 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | I've never seen so much hatred from a group of Americans towards a political figure as I have seen many liberals do towards this President. The left, including the media, hates this man, and even after his time in office they will still have an unfavorable opinion about him, like they do Reagan. |
uhh, last I checked there were many republicans that weren't exactly happy with his performance either.
Look at his approval ratings, it's not just "Liberals" as you put it any more.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
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| Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:52 pm |
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Being unhappy with his performance is one thing. Being hateful of the man is another. 
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
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| Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:18 pm |
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I don't think as many people 'hate' him as you make it out to seem. Many people dislike or even hate the way his administration is running things. But hating the president himself is an entirely different matter.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
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| Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:23 pm |
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| TrekkieMage wrote: | | I don't think as many people 'hate' him as you make it out to seem. Many people dislike or even hate the way his administration is running things. But hating the president himself is an entirely different matter. |
I never said that MANY people hate him. I said many liberals and the media hate him--which is TRUE. I NEVER said that so many people hate him, just that I've never seen so much hate expressed for a single man in office. If you and Link actually read what I said, you would know what I meant.
And in the case of many liberals and the media, it's not simply disenfranchisment with the administration, but rather absolute HATRED of this man, if you look at all the anti-Bush books, comparisons to Hitler, etc that mnay have said, plus all the liberal spin in the media which clearly shows hatred.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Link, the Hero of Time
Vice Admiral
Joined: 15 Sep 2001
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Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:45 am |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | I never said that MANY people hate him. I said many liberals and the media hate him--which is TRUE. I NEVER said that so many people hate him, just that I've never seen so much hate expressed for a single man in office. If you and Link actually read what I said, you would know what I meant. |
First off, dont assume that I didn't read your post, I did and I still believe that you're singling out us "Liberals" as the only people when there are plenty of "Conservatives" that dislike him just as much right now.
and you're exact words are | Republican_Man wrote: | | I've never seen so much hatred from a group of Americans towards a political figure as I have seen many liberals do towards this President. The left, including the media, hates this man, and even after his time in office they will still have an unfavorable opinion about him, like they do Reagan. |
You flat out say that an entire group AND the media hate him.
by the way. Prove it.
| Republican_Man wrote: | | And in the case of many liberals and the media, it's not simply disenfranchisment with the administration, but rather absolute HATRED of this man, if you look at all the anti-Bush books, comparisons to Hitler, etc that mnay have said, plus all the liberal spin in the media which clearly shows hatred. |
riiight... and when the media and conservatives did the same thing to Clinton I guess it was "The first amendment at work."
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:02 pm |
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Well, CNN's big black "X" over Cheney's face yesterday is just one more example.
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Link, the Hero of Time
Vice Admiral
Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 5581
Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:14 pm |
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what was the context they did it in.
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:28 pm |
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Cheney was giving a speech live on TV, and a big black X appeared over his face several times throughout the speech.
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CJ Cregg
Commodore
Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 1254
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:36 pm |
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The second picture is broken.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
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| Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:51 pm |
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| LightningBoy wrote: | | Cheney was giving a speech live on TV, and a big black X appeared over his face several times throughout the speech. |
Trust me, guys. Every minute (I believe it was that, or it was every second) they flashed that X over his face--and I don't know if it was that big, but they did--and they claimed it "technical problems." "Technical problems" is the biggest load of crap I've ever done heard for an excuse for it. There's NO WAY that that was a "technical malfunction," as they put it. It was CLEARLY intentional, as it was so continuosly done, and could NOT be due to technical problems. There's no way in heck that that was so. It's an example of Bush-Cheney hate, and a ridiculous one at that.
And Link, I mistyped my statement. I didn't mean to generalize the entire left, but the more radical left. The CNN example shows that, as does the Rather report, Wolf Blitzer's show, Hardball, Katie Kourich, and a number of other people and shows in the media are so blatently biased and don't hide their hatred that it's sickening. Plus, look at this list of anti-Bush books:
# Eric Alterman and Mark Green, The Book on Bush: How George W. (mis)leads America, (2004) ISBN 0670032735
# Paul Begala, Is Our Children Learning?: The Case Against George W. Bush, (2000) ISBN 0743214781
# John Bonifaz, Warrior King: The Case for Impeaching George Bush, (2003) ISBN 1560256060
# James Bovard, The Bush Betrayal, (2004) ISBN 140396727X
# Robert Bryce, Cronies: Oil, The Bushes, and the Rise of Texas, America's Superstate, (2004) ISBN 1586481886
# Robert C. Byrd, Losing America: Confronting a Reckless and Arrogant Presidency, (2004) ISBN 0393059421
# Richard Clarke, Against All Enemies : Inside America's War on Terror, (2004) ISBN 0743260457
# David Corn, The Lies of George W. Bush: Mastering the Politics of Deception, (2003) ISBN 1400050669
# John W. Dean, Worse Than Watergate: The Secret Presidency of George W. Bush, (2004) ISBN 031600023X
# Robert S. Devine, Bush Versus the Environment, (2004) ISBN 1400075211
# Maureen Dowd, Bushworld: Enter at Your Own Risk, (2004) ISBN 039915258X
# Al Franken, Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right, (2003) ISBN 0525947647
# Al Franken, Still More George W. Bushisms: Neither in French nor in English nor in Mexican, (2003) ISBN 0743251008
# Ben Fritz, Bryan Keefer & Brendan Nyhan, All the President's Spin: George W. Bush, the Media, and the Truth, (2004) ISBN 0743262514
# Jack Huberman, The Bush - Haters Handbook: A Guide to the Most Appalling Presidency of the Past 100 Years, (2003) ISBN 1560255692
# Molly Ivins, Bushwhacked: Life in George W. Bush's America, (2004) ISBN 0375713115
# Kitty Kelley, The Family: The Real Story of the Bush Dynasty, (2004) ISBN 0385503245
# Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Crimes Against Nature : How George W. Bush and His Corporate Pals Are Plundering the Country and Hijacking Our Democracy, (2004) ISBN 0060746874
# Michael Lind, Made In Texas: George W. Bush and the Southern Takeover of American Politics, (2002) ISBN 0465041213
# Mark Crispin Miller, The Bush Dyslexicon: Observations on a National Disorder, (2002) ISBN 0393322963
# Mark Crispin Miller, Cruel and Unusual: Bush/Cheney's New World Order, (2004) ISBN 0393059170
# E. Mitchell, W: Revenge of the Bush Dynasty, (2000) ISBN 0786866306
# James C. Moore and Wayne Slater, Bush's Brain: How Karl Rove Made George W. Bush Presidential, (2003) ISBN 0471471402
# Michael Moore, Dude, Where's My Country?, (2004) ISBN 0446693790
# Michael Moore, Stupid White Men, (2004) ISBN 006098726X
# Carl Pope, Strategic Ignorance : Why the Bush Administration Is Recklessly Destroying a Century of Environmental Progress, (2004) ISBN 1578051096
# Craig Unger, House of Bush, House of Saud: The Secret Relationship Between the World's Two Most Powerful Dynasties, (2004) ISBN 074325337X
# Paul Waldman, Fraud: The Strategy Behind the Bush Lies and Why the Media Didn't Tell You, (2004) ISBN 1402202520
# Jacob Weisberg, George W. Bushisms: The Slate Book of The Accidental Wit and Wisdom of our 43rd President, (2001) ISBN 0743222229
# Jacob Weisberg, More George W. Bushisms: More of Slate's Accidental Wit and Wisdom of Our 43rd President, (2002) ISBN 0743225198
# Jacob Weisberg, The Deluxe Election Edition Bushisms: The First Term, in His Own Special Words, (2004) ISBN 0743262522
# Ian Williams, Deserter: George Bush's War on Military Families, Veterans, and His Past, (2004) ISBN 1560256273
# Clint Willis, The I Hate George W. Bush Reader: Why Dubya Is Wrong About Absolutely Everything, (2004) ISBN 1560255897
And a NUMBER of anti-Bush election books about the 2000 and 2004 elections. And that's not even all of THOSE anti-Bush books. There are TONS more. My mom's aunt even had one in the room that I slept in when we visited her over the summer.
Uh-huh, yeah, no anti-Bush hate from the left. Riiight. And I'm Michael Moore. Oh, yeah, tack on Michael Moore's movie to that list, and the statements of Ted Kennedy, Dennis Kucinich, Howard Dean, and a number of other liberal Democrats, and you have Bush hate all around.
PLUS, just do a Google Image search for George Bush. Look at what you find. And, do a regular Google search for failure and you'll see the first link, "Biography of President George W. Bush."
Then, if you do failure and click, "I'm feeling lucky" and you'll get "http://www.whitehouse.gov/president/gwbbio.html." Plus, listen to Air America radio and the anti-Bush smear sites, and you'll get the hate. Plus, there are a number of liberals that are like my Speech and Debate coach last year who compare Bush to Hitler. And not in a good way, either.
Also, look at the rhetoric of George Soros and MoveOn.org. MoveOn.org, for instance, almost put out a Bush-Hitler comparison ad. They've also been saying some PRETTY nasty things about Bush and stuff.
Btw, some image links:
http://www.sindominio.net/singuerra/bushnazi_new.jpg
http://www.greenpeace.org/raw/image_full/international/photosvideos/photos/george-bush-leads-the-us-towar.jpg
http://www.auntlee.com/museum/caricature/images/Paul%20Making%20Fun%20Of%20George%20Bush_jpg.jpg
http://www.promikatur.de/fileadmin/images/wallpapers/george-bush-wallpaper-800x600.jpg
http://theheretik.typepad.com/the_heretik/images/george_bush_1934.jpg
http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/ATA/24588GB.jpg
And it doesn't NEARLY stop there.
Here's a complication of images from last year that I did for my website.
The RARE hatred of Clinton never even came CLOSE to there, so don't be bringing that argument to me. It's APPALLING how hated this man is and the kind of rhetoric that [many members of] the left push out. And you're telling me there's not extensive hate for Bush by [many on] the left and the media? You must be JOKING.
Proof enough for you, Link?
Same with your statement that conservatives dislike him just as much right now. Maybe 1 out of every 100000000 do, but that's it. Right now a lot of Conservatives are angry at him, yes, but do they hate him? Not even CLOSE. So don't give me that.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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CJ Cregg
Commodore
Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 1254
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| Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:21 pm |
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It was a computer glitch. I am 200% certain. Do you really think they would do this on purpose. if they were biased there not going to make it that obvious. Just like there not going to say we support liberals and hate bush on air.  Your making something out of nothing.
Heres what CNN had to say about the X
| Quote: | CNN transcript:
CNN anchor/reporter Daryn Kagan: "I have come back into the control room because we want to explain something to you that happened on this newscast yesterday. During our live coverage of a speech by Vice President Dick Cheney there was a technical malfunction, you'll see it here.
It involved a switcher, something we call a switcher. It's a machine that we use to switch between visual elements.
Now, that glitch resulted in that 'X' that you saw being flashed briefly across the screen as the vice president was speaking.
The story has made it on to the internet and various blogs in there.
In response, CNN has issued this statement.
'Upon seeing this unfortunate but very brief graphic, CNN senior management immediately investigated. We concluded this was a technical malfunction not an issue of operator error.'
Joining me to explain what happened Steve our CNN director of technical operations.
We're putting you on the hot seat here.
People at home are watching Vice President Dick Cheney.
What happened?
What were we trying to create behind the scenes?
At the end of the speech the plan was to do, to have a CNN logo up on the screen and use that as the way of getting back from the speech back to you on camera and one of the many graphics we use here at CNN.
A majority of graphics we use on the air, we use as a big x to identify at what point should the tape be cued up.
This is the x you see in the control room but it is never meant to be seen on the air.
It's being used.
The controlroom will use that kbrx to cue up the CNN logo to get it ready for air and as you see there, getting it ready.
We're doing this now, live. We're showing what you're trying to do exactly.
That is what was being prepared during the speech and due to the technical glitch that happened with the switcher, it accidentally got on the air because of the switch.
And it's the sort of thing that just like your computer will glitch and will suddenly lock up and do something weird, our equipment does the same thing on occasions.
ot something we can re-create to show you what happened.
Which is a really important point.
First of all, a switcher is a machine, not a person.
When we were talking about doing the segment and said, let's do it again. You can't make it happen on purpose.
That's correct.
For all the conspiracy theories out there and we want to have someone who is trying to make a statement about the nature of vice president cheney's speech, it's a computer bug. Ours was in front of millions of people.
That is absolutely correct. As it goes. So, we're getting it fixed, i hope?
Yes, much like you have to reboot your computer from time to time, we're going to reboot our computer from time to time to make sure it doesn't happen again. |
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
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| Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:24 pm |
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Oh hooey. That's their excuse, but it's obvious that it was done on purpose. Baloney. It happened when the VICE-PRESIDENT was giving a speech. It's never happened before. Why did it happen then? You believe what you want, but I think that CNN's lying. Yes, lying. It's too strategically timed to have been an "accident."
EDIT: And what, do you think they're really going to say, "Yeah, we put that X there on purpose" and admit their bias? HECK NO! Who in their right mind would do such a thing!?
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:34 pm |
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And if it wasn't an accident, what have they accomplished? Did the X make the speech unlcear? Did it incite hatred? BLACK X ON THE VICE, HE MUST BE HORRID! ...I don't get it. So there was an X. Did it...do...anything?
And what do you mean by "rare" hatred of Clinton? I thought Clinton got quite a great deal of dislike and ridicule. Not so much as Bush, I will grant you, but Bush has had a compliant congress. There is a lot of hate for Bush out there, but there's a lot of hate for what the Republican party stands for to begin with. When you start talking morals and values, people start yelling.
Now, I'm not defending the liberals, RM. You keep taking my questions and thoughts as if I'm advocating. I'm not.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
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| Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:44 pm |
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| Exalya wrote: | And if it wasn't an accident, what have they accomplished? Did the X make the speech unlcear? Did it incite hatred? BLACK X ON THE VICE, HE MUST BE HORRID! ...I don't get it. So there was an X. Did it...do...anything?
And what do you mean by "rare" hatred of Clinton? I thought Clinton got quite a great deal of dislike and ridicule. Not so much as Bush, I will grant you, but Bush has had a compliant congress. There is a lot of hate for Bush out there, but there's a lot of hate for what the Republican party stands for to begin with. When you start talking morals and values, people start yelling.
Now, I'm not defending the liberals, RM. You keep taking my questions and thoughts as if I'm advocating. I'm not. |
The point, Exalya, was the anti-Bush hate and bias. That's what we were responding with it for. It was innappropriate, dispicable, and hateful (and FAR from what the media, which is supposed to be fair, should be doing), and that was the point--anti-Bush bias in the media and hatred from many on the left. Doesn't mean it really did anything, but that wasn't the point. I hope that clarifies for you.
Perhaps rare's a bit weak of a word, but it was a lot less common than Bush, and a lot less harsh as well. He got ridicule and dislike, but rare down-right hatred, which is what I meant, and was comparing with the hatred of Bush.
The stuff against Clinton was no where near as galactic of a scale as the stuff against Bush. It wasn't as intense and it wasn't as common, particularly from the mainstream media, which loved Clinton. The only time the media really went after him was the Lewinski scandal, but they're always going after sex scandals in America quite hard. And there weren't the plethora of books against Clinton that there are about Bush.
The blatent hatred against Clinton wasn't there. Or at least the BLATENT-HATRED was rare. There was more harsh dislike than hatred for Clinton, but also a great amount of plain dislike, like there was from conservatives I know personally. But there wasn't the media consistently blasting the President daily through biased reporting, etc. And yet there is for Bush.
My point is that the hatred was far less for Clinton than for Bush, and aside from the Lewinski stuff, Clinton never had to go through all the hard things Bush did. That's my point.
And yes, it does seem like you are continually defending the left. Please be more clear in what you say.
EDIT: And finally, did you read all the things that I put in that post? CLEARLY Bush has FAR greater hatred than Clinton and FAR greater trouble than Clinton.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:46 pm |
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I'm not defending the left, I'm collecting more data. How are my questions unclear? I didn't say what I think. But I still wonder about the X, and this is what I think. To me, it seems like if I were going to do something to show how awful I felt towards Cheney, I could find something more daunting than flashing a black X now and then.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
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| Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:50 pm |
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| Exalya wrote: | | I'm not defending the left, I'm collecting more data. How are my questions unclear? I didn't say what I think. But I still wonder about the X, and this is what I think. To me, it seems like if I were going to do something to show how awful I felt towards Cheney, I could find something more daunting than flashing a black X now and then. |
It's the media. There's only so much incredibly obvious hateful attacks they can do, and that's one of them. Anything they can throw at the President and VP they'll throw at them. Putting an X on him is just a way of blatently attacking him to the greatest extent they can without someone flat-out giving there opinion in a news report.
And I mean you just have to make it seem less like you're supporting the liberal viewpoint, which gets me in a tussle and makes me respond as such.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:00 pm |
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I like to hear a coherent response on both sides, especially from the arguer. For my part, I do think that the hatred is childish, and that the democratic party, if it wants to save itself, needs to stop pointing and laughing at Bush. Negativity rarely wins one anything; they should start with the positive and expand. The democrats had, at one point, some very optimistic messages, and some decent speakers. Seeing them become negative, inarticulate Bush-haters is pretty sad. If that's the second party, we're going to need a third (And I pray we do find one). I think that with some calmer, more rational arguments about Bush's performance, they might actually obtain a following. Not that this is something I want. I intensely dislike ideals that are socialistic. If the dems want even more steam, I would recommend they get off that kick. But then, why listen to me?
The X is so minor, I would just apply a shrug. If it happened again, maybe I'd be concerned.
I'm *trying* not to get too off-topic here. The subject is Bush, after all, not the faceless groups opposing him.
Last edited by Arellia on Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
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| Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:02 pm |
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It was just an example of anti-Bush hatred and bias in the media, that's all. And I agree with you in that paragraph, essentially.
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Link, the Hero of Time
Vice Admiral
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| Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:28 pm |
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I'm really loving this.
| Republican_Man wrote: | | Putting an X on him is just a way of blatently attacking him to the greatest extent they can without someone flat-out giving there opinion in a news report. |
Can you prove it wasn't an accident or technical problem? Do you have the extensive knowledge that none of the rest of us have about Television equipment and can thus prove without a doubt that it was a blatent attack on Cheney?
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
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| Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:33 pm |
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No, but it's a reasonable suspection based on the past history of CNN and the illogical nature of it. Therefore, I think it's entirely logical to believe that this was done on purpose, and that it may, in fact, have definitely been on purpose. Now, I could be wrong, but judging from CNN in the past, the timing, and the fact that under no circumstances would they admit their bias, I'm inclined to believe it is as it is. But I wasn't the one who first commented about it, and that was only one miniscule part of my list of hateful things, so if we could move beyond one thing in there, that would be great, thank you.
Don't ignore everything else and just argue one thing that isn't flat-out proveable when I stated TONS of other instances. Heck, just watch CNN and MSNBC for ten minutes. Chances are they'll be some left-wing/anti-Bush bias in there. (And yes, I do watch them both. I have been watching them at least a bit each day.)
I listed tons of other things. Please don't just single out that one thing and ignore everything else. It doesn't help your argument, and is disrespectful to me.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Puck
The Texan
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Link, the Hero of Time
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
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| Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:21 pm |
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Your point being?...
And notice how there are fewer anti-Clinton things in those searches than anti-Bush?
And those proportional few that are horrible attacks on Clinton I would like to denounce.
Last edited by Republican_Man on Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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