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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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 Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:12 pm |
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I disagree. It clearly was the confusion that Palpatine put on Anakin, and the negative spin that he put on the actions of the Jedi. Palpatine took what was happening and twisted it, manipulated it to convince Anakin to join him. It wasn't what the Jedi did--it was the distortion of what the Jedi were doing by Palpatine that caused Anakin's betrayal and conversion.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:14 pm |
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He couldn't have put a negative spin on a non existant issue, RM. They knew how percarious Anakin's stability was, so they just kept adding pressure? That really doesn't make sense.
So again, if there had been nothing there to distort...
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Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:50 pm |
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| Theresa wrote: | He couldn't have put a negative spin on a non existant issue, RM. They knew how percarious Anakin's stability was, so they just kept adding pressure? That really doesn't make sense.
So again, if there had been nothing there to distort... |
Adding pressure? Like what?
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:53 pm |
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Well, in one scene they are talking about how unstable he is, and how close to Palpatine, and then they have the man he considers a father figure, (Obi-wan), ask him to betray the man he called a mentor, (Palpatine), without any really good reason. Sitting back, we know Palpatine is bad. Anakin didn't. Wouldn't you feel torn?
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:03 pm |
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Not really. It was blatantly obvious Palpatine was bad(not Sith wise though). They all sense something was wrong about him. They didn't like how he was starting to make descisions for the Jedi Council. Not to mention, Palpatine stayed within his term LONG after he was due to step down. He sent thousands of Jedi to their death in the war. They knew Palpatine was corrupt in every way. Obi-Wan even sensed that something was amiss when it came to Palpatine. Anakin was just VERY weak minded and a tool. He was easily manipulated and he liked Palpatine because he inflated Anakin's already huge ego. No good reason? I think all of that is a good reason. The only reason Anakin "didn't" know he was evil, was because he is a tool to Palpatine. The Jedi saw it.
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:39 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | I don't think any of these SW movies are deep enough to have any underlying themes or meanings,  They seem to be just for kids. |
That's false. Only Episode I was meant more for kids. Star Wars is meant for all, and people of all ages like it a lot. And yes, SW is deep to have underlying themes or meanings. Just look at it. It includes religious themes, such as redemption (with Darth Vader's redemption), and other themes. You have to look beyond your dislike for Star Wars and really look into it. You will be amazed at how many underlying themes, meanings, and messages there are. |
Yes, there are themes that imply these things, but underlying meanings about whether or not "the force" created something (especially a person)? Unless its explicitly said, then how could you gather the impression, since "the force" doesn't exist in the first place, hence you have no point of reference. Its like arguing about whats canon or not for ST.
And Lucas himself said that the movies are made for children.
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:46 pm |
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^Where did he say that? And even if he did, that wasn't all it was meant for. Not even close. It was originally meant for kids, yes, but after the first movie, it went far beyond that. Clearly, considering that half of the fan base is adults.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:50 pm |
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Lots of adults like Shrek, too. But that doesn't make it any less of a children's movie.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/394542.stm
| George Lucas wrote: | | The movies are for children but they [the fans] don't want to admit that. |
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:52 pm |
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Well, I don't think they're children's movies. Maybe they're made with children in mind, but they're not made for children only. And even if it is intended for children, it means nothing.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:11 pm |
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Don't get me wrong, there isn't anything bad about it. Knowledge is power.
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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lionhead
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)
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The Delta Flyer
Commodore
Joined: 08 Apr 2002
Posts: 2163
Location: East Yorkshire
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| Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:36 pm |
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I grew up with Star Wars so for all intents and purposes, as a kid it appealed to me (Born in 86 I obviously never saw them in cinemas but nonetheless grew up with the films on video, etc.).
If I had never seen it before, never grown up with it, I have to say that it would probably not appeal to me in the slightest.
Weird.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:14 pm |
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I watched all six in a row on Sunday  . It was great.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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nadia
cookie
Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Posts: 8560
Location: Australia
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| Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:32 am |
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Lucky!!! I lost our copy of #III but then like 3 days later I found it again......I was so worried that I had lost it
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