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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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 Wed Nov 02, 2005 11:40 pm Rioting Spreads Across France |
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| Quote: |
Paris Riots Hit One Week
Wednesday, November 02, 2005
CLICHY-SOUS-BOIS, France � Menacing youths smoked cigarettes in doorways Wednesday and hulks of burned cars littered the tough streets of Paris' northeastern suburbs scarred by a week of riots that left residents on edge and sent the government into crisis mode.
In a seventh consecutive night of skirmishes, young people threw rocks at police Wednesday in six suburbs in the Seine-Saint-Denis region north of Paris � about a 40-minute drive from the Eiffel Tower (search). In one of them, Le Blanc-Mesnil, about a dozen cars burned and curious residents, some in slippers and bathrobes, poured into the streets.
Some said the unrest � sparked by the accidental deaths of two teenagers last week � is an expression of frustration over grinding unemployment and police harassment in the communities, where many North African immigrants live. "It is not going to end. It is going to explode," said an 18-year-old who would only give his name as Amine.
Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin (search) and Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy (search) both canceled trips abroad to deal with the unrest.
"The government is entirely mobilized. Its immediate priority is to restore public order, and restore it without delay," de Villepin said.
Muslim leaders at Clichy-sous-Bois' (search) mosque, meanwhile, prayed for peace and asked parents to keep teenagers off the streets after skirmishes broke out after two teenage boys were electrocuted last Thursday while hiding in a power substation because they believed police were chasing them.
The unrest spread to at least nine Paris-region towns overnight Tuesday, exposing the despair, anger and criminality in France's poor suburbs � fertile terrain for Islamic extremists, drug dealers and racketeers.
The violence, concentrated in neighborhoods with large African and Muslim (search) populations, has highlighted the difficulties many European nations face with immigrant communities feeling marginalized and restive, cut off from the continent's prosperity and, for some extremists, its values, too.
"They have no work. They have nothing to do. Put yourself in their place," said Abderrahmane Bouhout, president of the Clichy-sous-Bois mosque, where a tear gas grenade exploded Sunday evening. Local youths suspected a police attack, and authorities are investigating.
The violence cast doubt on the success of France's model of seeking to integrate its large immigrant community � its Muslim population, at an estimated 5 million, is Western Europe's largest � by playing down differences between ethnic groups. But rather than be embraced as full and equal citizens, immigrants and their French-born children often complain of police harassment and of being refused jobs, housing and opportunities.
"If French society accepts these tinderboxes in its society, it cannot be surprised when they explode," said Claude Dilain, the Socialist mayor of the Clichy-sous-Bois suburb.
Eric, a 22-year-old in Clichy-sous-Bois who was born in France to Moroccan parents, said police target those with dark skin. He said he has been unable to find full-time work for two years and that the riots were a demonstration of suburban solidarity.
"People are joining together to say we've had enough," he said. He refused to give his surname because talking to reporters was poorly regarded in his neighborhood.
"We live in ghettos," he added. "Everyone lives in fear."
Many immigrant families are trapped in housing projects that were built to accommodate foreign laborers welcomed by post-World War II France but have since succumbed to despair, chronic unemployment and lawlessness. In some neighborhoods, drug dealers and racketeers hold sway and experts say Islamic radicals seek to recruit disenchanted youths by telling them that France has abandoned them.
"French society is in a bad state ... increasingly unequal, increasingly segregated, and increasingly divided along ethnic and racial lines," said sociologist Manuel Boucher. Some youths turn to Islam to claim an identity that is not French, "to seize on something which gives them back their individual and collective dignity."
French governments have injected funds and job-creation schemes for years but failed to cure ills in suburbs where car-burnings and other crimes are daily facts of life.
"No matter what the politicians say, some neighborhoods are all but lost," said Patrice Ribeiro, national secretary of the Synergie police officers' union. "Police patrols pass through but without stopping and with their windows rolled up."
Police said 180 vehicles were torched overnight Tuesday, most in the Seine-Saint-Denis region that includes Clichy, Aulnay and other violence-hit neighborhoods. Police made 35 arrests in Seine-Saint-Denis.
Youths lobbed Molotov cocktails (search) near Aulnay's town hall and threw stones at the firehouse. In nearby Bondy, a blaze engulfed a store.
Officials said police were harassed by "small, very mobile gangs."
De Villepin postponed a visit to Canada and Sarkozy canceled a trip next week to Pakistan and Afghanistan.
President Jacques Chirac told a weekly Cabinet meeting that "the law must be applied firmly" but "in a spirit of dialogue and respect" to prevent "a dangerous situation" from developing.
Chirac acknowledged the "profound frustrations" of troubled neighborhoods but said violence is not the answer and that efforts must be stepped up to combat it.
"Zones without law cannot exist in the republic," he said.
In Aulnay-sous-Bois, another northeastern suburb where riot police fired rubber bullets at advancing gangs of youths Tuesday night, workers cleaned up charred debris Wednesday. A group of teenagers chased and threw stones at Associated Press reporters, some shouting "Go home!" and others yelling: "See you tonight."
"I am afraid. I have children," said Aulnay resident Houcine Yahiaoui, who watched the violence from his windows. "I have never seen anything like this here."
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A week and they haven't been able to restore order? Anyways, I'm not sure who is really at fault here, but hopefully they get it resolved soon, while recognizing the problems these ethnic groups face in Europe.
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Updated November 4:
| Quote: | French Riots Spread Outside of Paris Region
Friday, November 04, 2005
LE BLANC MESNIL, France � A wave of arson attacks in Paris' restive suburbs punctured what authorities said Friday was otherwise the first night of relative calm after a week of clashes between riot police and angry youths.
Officials said at least 400 cars were torched in the Paris region, an increase from previous nights. But there were fewer direct clashes with riot police who were deployed in force across the suburbs north of Paris following Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin's (search) vow to restore order.
"The peak is now behind us," Gerard Gaudron, mayor of Aulnay-sous-Bois (search), one of the worst-hit suburbs, told France-Info radio. He said parents were determined to keep their teenagers at home to prevent unrest. "People have had enough. People are afraid. It's time for this to stop."
But reports of unrest also surfaced north of Paris in the Normandy region and to the east in Burgundy, according to France-Info radio.
Small-scale suburban violence and car-torchings are a regular, though largely unreported, fact of life in troubled suburbs of Paris and other French cities dominated by low-income housing projects marked by unemployment and delinquency. What sets the current unrest apart is its duration, and the way it rapidly ignited beyond the original flash point of Clichy-sous-Bois (search) in northeast Paris.
The unrest started Oct. 27 when angry youths took to streets over the accidental deaths of two teenagers � Bouna Traore (search), 15, and Zyed Benna (search), 17 � electrocuted in a power substation where they were hiding from police.
Traore's brother, Siyakah Traore, called Friday for youths to "calm down and stop ransacking everything."
"This is not how we are going to have our voices heard," he said on RTL radio.
In the troubled region of Seine-Saint-Denis northeast of the capital, arson attacks destroyed 187 vehicles and five buildings, including three sprawling warehouses, said the region's top government official, Prefect Jean-Francois Cordet (search).
However, Cordet said in a statement that police reported seeing fewer large groups of youths rioting and, "contrary to the previous nights, there were fewer direct clashes with the forces of order."
A commuter train line that links Paris to Charles de Gaulle airport northeast of the capital was still running a scaled-back service Friday after two trains were targeted Wednesday night. The SNCF train authority said one in five trains was running and conductors of night trains were demanding onboard security.
Youths fired buckshot at riot police vehicles in Neuilly-sur-Marne (search), further east, and a group of 30 to 40 harassed police near a synagogue in Stains where a city bus was torched and a school classroom partially burned, said Cordet.
A bus depot was set on fire to the west of Paris in the town of Trappes, incinerating 27 buses, authorities said.
The unrest was scaled-back from the sometimes ferocious rioting of previous nights. In overnight clashes Wednesday, rioters in three towns fired live bullets at police and firefighters, none of whom were injured.
The rioting has grown into a broader challenge for the French state. It has laid bare discontent simmering in suburbs that are heavily populated by poor African Muslim immigrants and their French-born children, many trapped by poverty, crime and poor education.
France's Muslim population, an estimated 5 million, is Western Europe's largest. But rather than being embraced as equal citizens, immigrants and children often complain of police harassment and job discrimination.
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Last edited by Puck on Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:38 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Cathexis
The Angel of Avalon
Joined: 26 Dec 2001
Posts: 5901
Location: ~~ Where Dreams Have No End�
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| Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:02 am |
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  Wow.......this is HORRIBLE!!!!!! Why haven't I heard of this before tonight??? It's strange because I get news directly from Voila.fr and I didn't see anything about these riots.....wow... 
CHIRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:15 pm |
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I always thought that acting with violence was a great way to show how trustworthy and in control of yourself you are.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Brightstar82
Rear Admiral
Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Posts: 4394
Location: A Borg Cube....Where Else?
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| Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:45 pm |
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OMG thats terrible 
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Cathexis
The Angel of Avalon
Joined: 26 Dec 2001
Posts: 5901
Location: ~~ Where Dreams Have No End�
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| Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:05 pm |
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| Theresa wrote: | | I always thought that acting with violence was a great way to show how trustworthy and in control of yourself you are. |
I totally agree with you 100%, T.
It's a sad thing to know of such acts of disregard and violence against fellow countrymen.
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Dirt
Exercise Boy
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 2086
Location: a tree
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| Fri Nov 04, 2005 4:36 am |
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This is sooooooooo 1992 LAish, 
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Cathexis
The Angel of Avalon
Joined: 26 Dec 2001
Posts: 5901
Location: ~~ Where Dreams Have No End�
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| Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:46 pm |
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| Dirt wrote: | | This is sooooooooo 1992 LAish, |
Yeah, no kidding...
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:54 am |
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| Quote: | | The African immigrant attackers doused the woman, in her 50s and on crutches, with an inflammable liquid and set her afire as she tried to get off a bus in the suburb of Sevran (search) Wednesday, judicial officials said. The bus had been forced to stop because of burning objects in its path. She was rescued by the driver and hospitalized with severe burns. |
Time to call in the military? Well, that might be a bit extreme, but idk. They claim it is getting better supposedly...but really doesn't seem that way.
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Tyvek
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Jul 2001
Posts: 2821
Location: Mississippi, USA
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| Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:37 pm |
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| Puck wrote: | | Quote: | | The African immigrant attackers doused the woman, in her 50s and on crutches, with an inflammable liquid and set her afire as she tried to get off a bus in the suburb of Sevran (search) Wednesday, judicial officials said. The bus had been forced to stop because of burning objects in its path. She was rescued by the driver and hospitalized with severe burns. |
Time to call in the military? Well, that might be a bit extreme, but idk. They claim it is getting better supposedly...but really doesn't seem that way. |
PAST time to call in the military
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:46 pm |
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dag....................
Okay, I think I'm going to go all "conservative" on this issue (no offense) and say its time to get the military in on this........
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:47 am |
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Simply put: These are TERRORIST acts. France has become a front in the war on terror. And yet, for some reason, the media just can't admit that. Yes, military action is long overdue. But I'm not surprised that France hasn't provided it.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:52 am |
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I don't know. I suppose they really are. However, these African Muslims are being discrimated against in their own country. One example, an African Muslim cannot rent a nice aparment, not because he doesn't have money, but because a landlord won't rent to a French Muslim...thus, he is forced to live in the slums. I mean, I know what they are doing is wrong, but I can sympathize with their cause to an extent?
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Sun Nov 06, 2005 8:27 am |
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Yeah, Kevin has a point, while it is wrong, they can be sympathized with to a point. Not every country is equal opportunity. Even though America claims to be equal opportunity, it really isn't, the only difference is we have better law enforcement.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:02 pm |
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You're right. America doesn't have equal opportunity. We have something called Affirmative Action. While its original intentions were good, it's really reverse discrimination. It contradicts equal opportunity.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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CJ Cregg
Commodore
Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 1254
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| Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:58 pm |
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I agree with you there RM, Affirmative Action WAS required a few years ago but now i think its becoming less and less needed.
I know that if i were rejected because of the colour of my skin and not on grades etc i would be offended. Race should no longer be a factor, full stop.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:12 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | You're right. America doesn't have equal opportunity. We have something called Affirmative Action. While its original intentions were good, it's really reverse discrimination. It contradicts equal opportunity. |
You also have some conservatives, such as those in Maine, trying to pass question 1 on the November ballot, which would discriminate against homosexuals so that they can't get jobs, credit, education, and housing.
[Question 1 states:
"Do you want to reject the new law that would protect people from discrimination in employment, housing, education, public accommodations and credit based on their sexual orientation?"]
Yes, there is definately still a push for discrimations against all kinds of people in the United States, and it seems that we still have not been able to completly grasp our own ideal that all men are created equal, with the unalienable rights of life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness. It is quite unfortunate that France, and clearly the United States itself still have people struggling to defend their basic human rights.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
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| Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:55 pm |
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Yeah, I agree with you on Question One. That's just insane. Discrimination against homosexuals like education and housing? No way.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
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| Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:10 pm |
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I blame the majority of these deaths and everything on Chirac, who isn't doing his job. He isn't sending the military down there to do anything, and now thanks to his weakness, these Muslim insurgents are bringing great danger to the society, and Chirac must stand up to defend his people. Maybe there are some logical reasons for why they would want to do this, but they prove that this is another front in the war on terror, and what they're doing is horribly wrong.
It's similar to the US immigration situation in that both nations have millions of unaccounted immigrants, and yet look, when we're over here fighting about illegal immigration, we're labeled a racist, and yet when people are standing up in France right now, they're not being called racist...
It proves that both nations need a strong immigration policy and really needs to keep track of them, or something like what's happening in France will continue happening there and happen in the US.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Ziyal
Captain
Joined: 04 Dec 2002
Posts: 848
Location: Alaska :D
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| Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:11 am |
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Thats no way to behave in civilized soceity, instead of rioting they could try something a little more peaceful and a little less hateful. Who wants to sympathize with them when they act like a bunch of hoodlums?
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:14 am |
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+10!!!!!
-------signature-------
"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
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Location: Classified
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| Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:55 pm |
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I loved Fox's Brit Hume's sarcasm just a minute ago when he said, "The French are really cracking down, folks. Curfew, at midnight." That's all they're doing--mandating a curfew, at midnight!
Again, I say to you, this is another front on the war on terror. Radical Muslims are recruiting and leading in this, I am convinced. It is not simply a poverty thing. Poverty can't be blamed for all these deaths. It's the rise of Islamo-Fascism there that can be blamed for it.
France, whether they like it or not, has now been engulfed in World War III.
Youths? They're terrorists. Why did it take almost 2 weeks for the French government to declare a state of emergency?
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
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| Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:31 pm |
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And what's interesting is how during Katrina the French media pushed the government response as racism. And yet, that's not the case here, with this.
They like to portray us as Alabama in the 1960s, and yet they, according to Lt. Col Ralph Peters, who lived in Europe for several years, are absolutely brutal to the the Muslims and North Africans there. He believes that FRANCE is the most racist nation in Europe.
And btw, they're not going after Chirac any way near CLOSE to how they go after Bush, and he's failed miserably here. He's not doing anything more than a curfew even TWO WEEKS after it! It's ridiculous!
France seems to me to be a very contradictory, hypocritical state, and nation. They claim to be accepting, yet don't like anyone who's not French. They claim to be accepting, yet are brutal and rather racist to these Muslims (at least the government). They attack Bush in every way possible, especially during Katrina, and yet Chirac walk.
And anyways, think about it. They live in a socialist welfare state. Shouldn't these Muslims be getting the treatment they need and not be in poverty? Socialism at its best.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:57 pm |
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To blame this on the Muslisms is wrong. France, ironically pertends they're the better of Human society, are racist. They always have been. They believe they are the epitomy of perfection in Europe. They treat those Muslims so horribly. This is what they get for it.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:26 pm |
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Well, without the French, America wouldn't have one the War of Independence, so don't be too mean to them .
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Nov 08, 2005 10:37 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | To blame this on the Muslisms is wrong. France, ironically pertends they're the better of Human society, are racist. They always have been. They believe they are the epitomy of perfection in Europe. They treat those Muslims so horribly. This is what they get for it. |
That plays a role in it, yes. But that doesn't call for this activity. Not by a long shot. They allowed this to come to them, so the reason why it's happening could be attributed to them because of that. It's their fault that it's happening because they didn't take preemptive measures to stop it. However, the actions are undoubtedly the fault of the radical Muslims for actually carrying them it, and it's the Imams who are pushing for this, showing that this is a front in the war on terror.
And Puck, I don't deny my French heritage for that very fact. But that is in the past. Now, they're very much our enemy.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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