| Would you destroy the caretakers eray or not? |
| Yer i would. |
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56% |
[ 17 ] |
| Dunno... Maybe... |
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10% |
[ 3 ] |
| No not wouldn't of... |
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33% |
[ 10 ] |
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| Total Votes : 30 |
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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 Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:07 am |
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| Voyager2004 wrote: | I know what you're saying. But in your original post, you're assuming that there would have been different circumstances would you have been in Janeway's shoes. That's not a logical way to look at something when you think you would have done something different. What you did in your first post was "change" the situation so that the Kazon weren't an immediate threat to the array...and let's say perhaps that the Kazon weren't an immediate threat, the Caretaker activated a self destruct program...even if the Kazon weren't there at that very moment, he activated it, so they wouldn't be able to get it in the future.
So, in regards to your original post, you wouldn't have been able to return to the array in a shuttle weeks later with an away team to study the technology. It would still have been destroyed. |
I didn't change any situation. The kazon were no severe threat to begin with they are an inferior species. What I said is retreat, instead of destroying the array. Then after a plan is developed and intelligence is gathered about the kazons TRUE intentions, execute that plan.
What I also said is it would take a very long time for the kazon to gather and learn how to use the technology on the array. It's not magic stuff you know, they would need their own scientists to know how to use the tech if they wanted to use it against the ocompa.
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luit14
Commodore
Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 2232
Location: Come on in HEEERE! :P
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| Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:26 am |
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It's called setting a time delayed bomb on the array.  Seriously, they could have set one and left. That's what I would have done. 
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Cap. Proton
Master Chief
Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 1490
Location: U.S.S. Braveheart
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| Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:28 am |
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^Same for me...how come that in ST: EF1 they have Det-packs and in Caretaker they haven't?
-------signature-------
For all the RPG'rs out here:
Join the SDTF
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Sat Oct 29, 2005 9:37 pm |
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| PrankishSmart wrote: | Ok I would have done something completely different than either.
I would have not destroyed the array and also would have not returned back the the alpha Q immediately. I would have set course back to the ocompan home world and remained in orbit or landed and assist the ocompa any way possible. What Janeway did, destroying the array then simply leaving was not helping the ocompa because they had no replicator technology or renewable energy so they were going to die.
After a couple of weeks I would return to the array in a shuttle with an away team and study the technology that is capable of transporting ships across the galaxy. Assuming I could fit it to a shuttle to return to the alpha Q and I would strip the array of the tech and leave it on voyager or the ocompa homeworld under lock and key. The shuttle (assuming the tech is adaptable) return to the federation with all the info on the technology so Starfleet could possible send ships back using the same technology.
I would then offer the ocompa homeworld federation membership and hopefully the federation could gain presence in ocompan system using the arrays technology to send ships back and fourth. Then federation space would grow exponentially outward from the ocompan system. |
You did too change the situation to better suit what YOU wanted to happen. You clearly state above that you would have returned to the Homeworld...well, the Kazon were at the Array with intentions to board it and find out what was going on. You make it sound like you're erasing the fact that the Kazon were even present at the array when Voyager destroyed it. You make it sound like there was NO threat at all when in fact there really was. You clearly changed the scenario to better fit what YOU would have done.
| PrankishSmart wrote: | I didn't change any situation. The kazon were no severe threat to begin with they are an inferior species. What I said is retreat, instead of destroying the array. Then after a plan is developed and intelligence is gathered about the kazons TRUE intentions, execute that plan.
What I also said is it would take a very long time for the kazon to gather and learn how to use the technology on the array. It's not magic stuff you know, they would need their own scientists to know how to use the tech if they wanted to use it against the ocompa. |
Yes, I understand and FULLY comprehend that they are an INFERIOR species, but the fact that they have more ships that just Voyager alone, makes them more powerful. Doesn't matter how much more inferior they were, they had more firepower. B'Elanna even told Chakotay that neither of their ships had enough fire power, (at that particular moment) to get that Kazon ship away from Voyager. Hence the fact Chakotay set a collision course with it. There were a minimum of 2 Kazon ships attacking. I think there were three, but I only visually saw 2, so I'm sticking with 2.
And if Voyager would have just retreated, then it is fact that the Kazon ship would NOT have collided with the array, b/c if Janeway retreated so would Chakotay, meaning Chakotay wouldn't have set the collision course with the ship (because the ship Chakotay crashed into, is the SAME ship that crashed into the array and damaged the self destruct program), thus the Caretaker still would have been able to destroy the array. You're not looking at all the obviously stated facts in the episode, you're changing it so that you could help the Ocampa. Stick with the episode, the array would have been destroyed either way, by Janeway or the Caretaker.
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Sat Oct 29, 2005 11:11 pm |
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| Voyager2004 wrote: | | PrankishSmart wrote: | Ok I would have done something completely different than either.
I would have not destroyed the array and also would have not returned back the the alpha Q immediately. I would have set course back to the ocompan home world and remained in orbit or landed and assist the ocompa any way possible. What Janeway did, destroying the array then simply leaving was not helping the ocompa because they had no replicator technology or renewable energy so they were going to die.
After a couple of weeks I would return to the array in a shuttle with an away team and study the technology that is capable of transporting ships across the galaxy. Assuming I could fit it to a shuttle to return to the alpha Q and I would strip the array of the tech and leave it on voyager or the ocompa homeworld under lock and key. The shuttle (assuming the tech is adaptable) return to the federation with all the info on the technology so Starfleet could possible send ships back using the same technology.
I would then offer the ocompa homeworld federation membership and hopefully the federation could gain presence in ocompan system using the arrays technology to send ships back and fourth. Then federation space would grow exponentially outward from the ocompan system. |
You did too change the situation to better suit what YOU wanted to happen. You clearly state above that you would have returned to the Homeworld...well, the Kazon were at the Array with intentions to board it and find out what was going on. You make it sound like you're erasing the fact that the Kazon were even present at the array when Voyager destroyed it. You make it sound like there was NO threat at all when in fact there really was. You clearly changed the scenario to better fit what YOU would have done.
| PrankishSmart wrote: | I didn't change any situation. The kazon were no severe threat to begin with they are an inferior species. What I said is retreat, instead of destroying the array. Then after a plan is developed and intelligence is gathered about the kazons TRUE intentions, execute that plan.
What I also said is it would take a very long time for the kazon to gather and learn how to use the technology on the array. It's not magic stuff you know, they would need their own scientists to know how to use the tech if they wanted to use it against the ocompa. |
Yes, I understand and FULLY comprehend that they are an INFERIOR species, but the fact that they have more ships that just Voyager alone, makes them more powerful. Doesn't matter how much more inferior they were, they had more firepower. B'Elanna even told Chakotay that neither of their ships had enough fire power, (at that particular moment) to get that Kazon ship away from Voyager. Hence the fact Chakotay set a collision course with it. There were a minimum of 2 Kazon ships attacking. I think there were three, but I only visually saw 2, so I'm sticking with 2.
And if Voyager would have just retreated, then it is fact that the Kazon ship would NOT have collided with the array, b/c if Janeway retreated so would Chakotay, meaning Chakotay wouldn't have set the collision course with the ship (because the ship Chakotay crashed into, is the SAME ship that crashed into the array and damaged the self destruct program), thus the Caretaker still would have been able to destroy the array. You're not looking at all the obviously stated facts in the episode, you're changing it so that you could help the Ocampa. Stick with the episode, the array would have been destroyed either way, by Janeway or the Caretaker. |
I still don't think you got what I said. At the time Janeway made the choice to destroy the array (when the self destruct system was damaged), I would have instead retreated to the ocompa homeworld, or somewhere else to get away from the attacking ships. Actually, destroying the array wouldn't have even come to mind most likely.
Then, while retreated, repair ship and gather intelligence about the kazons intentions. Then there is possibility of salvaging the situation. Janeway basically took the caretakers word for word that the kazon will do exactly what he would predict. I would have decided for myself what they would do from observation. Then develop a plan if needed. Thats what Picard would have done too. You can't just destroy a vital piece of technology which is the only way home, from a 1 minute thought. Actually, Janeway probally didn't even think about what she was doing.
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Sat Oct 29, 2005 11:12 pm |
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| luit14 wrote: | | It's called setting a time delayed bomb on the array. Seriously, they could have set one and left. That's what I would have done. |
Yet another option that Janeway didn't even consider. There are always other options 
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:42 pm |
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Have you consider that was not what the writers didn't have in mind. After all it is just a show anyway..
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:20 pm |
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| Leo Wyatt wrote: | | Have you consider that was not what the writers didn't have in mind. After all it is just a show anyway.. |
Yeah, that's why it's being debated. To show what complete geeks we are,
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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luit14
Commodore
Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 2232
Location: Come on in HEEERE! :P
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| Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:49 pm |
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| Leo Wyatt wrote: | | Have you consider that was not what the writers didn't have in mind. After all it is just a show anyway.. |
Of course it is. But it was just kind of bad writing if they could have easily put a bomb on the array.
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Sun Oct 30, 2005 8:10 pm |
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| Leo Wyatt wrote: | | Have you consider that was not what the writers didn't have in mind. After all it is just a show anyway.. |
Please remember i'm not debating the actor (kate mulgrew), simply the character Janeway, because that is what the writers of the show have made. In fact i'm sure Kate has done a great job with playing the part for the series the writers intended.
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Sun Oct 30, 2005 8:16 pm |
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| Theresa wrote: | | Leo Wyatt wrote: | | Have you consider that was not what the writers didn't have in mind. After all it is just a show anyway.. |
Yeah, that's why it's being debated. To show what complete geeks we are, |
More geeky than the 'If you was a kid on Voyager, how would you annoy the doctor?' topic?
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Sun Oct 30, 2005 9:43 pm |
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| PrankishSmart wrote: | I still don't think you got what I said. At the time Janeway made the choice to destroy the array (when the self destruct system was damaged), I would have instead retreated to the ocompa homeworld, or somewhere else to get away from the attacking ships. Actually, destroying the array wouldn't have even come to mind most likely.
Then, while retreated, repair ship and gather intelligence about the kazons intentions. Then there is possibility of salvaging the situation. Janeway basically took the caretakers word for word that the kazon will do exactly what he would predict. I would have decided for myself what they would do from observation. Then develop a plan if needed. Thats what Picard would have done too. You can't just destroy a vital piece of technology which is the only way home, from a 1 minute thought. Actually, Janeway probally didn't even think about what she was doing. |
Ok. Then the Kazon would have boarded the Array, and had the technology. It's not like the Kazon are completely inept and can't figure out technology. You make it sound like they're totally retarded...
And if the Kazon did get the technology, who knows what they could have done. That's the entire point. It was NOT a smart idea to just leave the array defenseless.
And a time delayed bomb wouldn't do near as much damage as 2 tri-cobalt devices with a 20 iso-ton yield...Come on.
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Sun Oct 30, 2005 10:32 pm |
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The Kazon are totally retarded. What do they value most? Water. What do they do? Try to find a little colony underground on an arrid(sp) planet that has a limited amount of water. Great way to expend resources, boys! Then later on we find out that they didn't even build their ships on their own. I suppose it never occurred to any of them to leave? I mean, come on. Space is vast. And is not 2 dimensional, so unless they were in the middle of a bubble of warring Kazon sects, it shouldn't have been too difficult. Hell, three episodes later Voyager has come across several planets with water.
So, yeah, the Kazon are retarded.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:38 am |
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Ok...lol...the Kazon are retarded. But the Caretaker obviously perceived them as a threat to the Ocampa if they got their hands on his technology. The Caretaker was much more an advanced life form that Starfleet had ever encountered, so that has to count for something. Otherwise, who knows what they could've done with his technology.
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:24 am |
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| Voyager2004 wrote: | | PrankishSmart wrote: | I still don't think you got what I said. At the time Janeway made the choice to destroy the array (when the self destruct system was damaged), I would have instead retreated to the ocompa homeworld, or somewhere else to get away from the attacking ships. Actually, destroying the array wouldn't have even come to mind most likely.
Then, while retreated, repair ship and gather intelligence about the kazons intentions. Then there is possibility of salvaging the situation. Janeway basically took the caretakers word for word that the kazon will do exactly what he would predict. I would have decided for myself what they would do from observation. Then develop a plan if needed. Thats what Picard would have done too. You can't just destroy a vital piece of technology which is the only way home, from a 1 minute thought. Actually, Janeway probally didn't even think about what she was doing. |
Ok. Then the Kazon would have boarded the Array, and had the technology. It's not like the Kazon are completely inept and can't figure out technology. You make it sound like they're totally retarded...
And if the Kazon did get the technology, who knows what they could have done. That's the entire point. It was NOT a smart idea to just leave the array defenseless.
And a time delayed bomb wouldn't do near as much damage as 2 tri-cobalt devices with a 20 iso-ton yield...Come on. |
They might figure out the tech eventually. It's not like janeway NEEDED to destroy the array within that minute, and it's not like retreat was no option. They could have easliy came up with a plan if the kazons intentions were true to the caretakers predictions.
A time delayed bomb might work enough to destroy all the tech but maybe not the whole station. The time delayed photon torpedo beamed aboard the borg ship in dark frontier worked, so who knows.
I still don't think destruction of the array was nessessary to stop the kazon from gaining the technology though.
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:29 pm |
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| PrankishSmart wrote: | | The time delayed photon torpedo beamed aboard the borg ship in dark frontier worked, so who knows. |
Ya, it did. But here's why:
| Chakotay wrote: | | I thought we were trying to disable it. |
| 7 of 9 wrote: | | The torpedo detonated next to a power matrix. It caused a chain reaction. |
But still. By not destroying the array, it's just the principle that the Kazon would be able to board the array. They could call in for back up and defend it. Voyager and the small Maquis ship is NO match for however many they could have called in. They weren't a match for the 2 that were already there...So come on, that gives the Kazon a tactical advantage and Voyager might never have been able to get back to the array again. Either way, destroying the array was the best choice. Otherwise the array would have fallen into the wrong hands.
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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Emili
Lieutenant
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 164
Location: England
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| Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:35 pm |
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maybeh maybe not, it all depends on how much i had to drink that day
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EnsignSkelly
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 113
Location: I'd bet you'd love to find that out...
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| Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:08 pm |
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| Emili wrote: | | maybeh maybe not, it all depends on how much i had to drink that day |
 Good one. But can you drink and then go on duty i don't think you can .
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Sun Nov 20, 2005 12:38 am |
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^^^No you can't...seeing as to how "Starfleet" is pretty much the 24th century Navy, I've come to this conclusion..."The rules and regs of today's Navy, (which may also be the same as most other branches of today's armed forces) do apply to that of the 24th century Navy."
Being in the Navy, I know that today's navy says "Don't drink within 8 hours of reporting to duty, or within 8 hours of the working day." So, no you couldn't drink and then report to duty.
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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Emili
Lieutenant
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 164
Location: England
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| Mon Nov 21, 2005 12:13 pm |
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damn, looks like i wont get in the navy
If i didnt drink, i would destory it, earth was crap anyway
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:22 pm |
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Earth was? or is? ^^^ You make it sound as if we don't live on it anymore...
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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Emili
Lieutenant
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 164
Location: England
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| Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:03 am |
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haha i ment is, i wanna make my own planet and live there harhar
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:38 pm |
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haha...gotcha.
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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Blancie
Commodore
Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Posts: 1119
Location: Shetland
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| Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:09 pm |
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I would not have destoryed the Caretaker's array, I would have put myself and my crew first.
However, I totally support Janeway and her decisions....... lol 
-------signature-------
Davay davay davay!
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Birdy
Socialist
Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Posts: 13502
Location: Here.
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| Mon Dec 26, 2005 5:58 am |
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Yeah, I would, otherwise people wouldn't have 7 great seasons of voyager!!!!! Sorry, had to say that.
I guess I would have, cuz Janeway is someone who protects innocent people. And the Ocampa were innocent. But at some point I would've chosen for my crew, sooner than Janeway I think.
-------signature-------
Nosce te ipsum
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