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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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 Sat Oct 15, 2005 11:51 pm Vote Count Begins In Iraq |
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Vote count under way in Iraq
Results expected next week; no major violence reported
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- By nightfall Saturday election workers in Iraq were hand-counting the millions of paper ballots cast in the war-weary nation's constitutional referendum.
The process, which involved more than 5,800 polling stations, is expected to take days.
Although results aren't expected until next week, the referendum already was being hailed as a success, because turnout appeared to be high enough to legitimize the outcome -- and no major violence was reported. (Watch how people voted -- 2:33)
"The success in this referendum, it isn't how many people are going to say 'yes' and how many people are going to say 'no,' " said Fareed Ayar, a spokesman for Iraq's Independent Electoral Commission. "The success is that all Iraqis ... found out that the polling station is the way to deal with the political problems in Iraq, to deal with the violence in Iraq."
"That is the message today that the Iraqis are sending to the rest of the world," he said.
About 15.5 million of Iraq's 26 million people were registered to vote. (A look at what's at stake -- 3:0
Initial figures showed more than two-thirds of eligible voters cast ballots in Baghdad and seven other provinces, said Ayar. In eight others, turnout ranged between 33 percent and 66 percent, he said.
Electoral officials had no information about Anbar province in western Iraq, which has been a hotbed of insurgent violence. Turnout in the southern province of Qadisiya was projected to be less than 33 percent, Ayar said.
The United Nations' top elections official, Carina Perelli, described voting as having gone "steadily" in all regions of the country. But she cautioned that initial turnout numbers were based on best guesses and unscientific counting and didn't take into account the possibility of irregularities.
In January, when Iraqis elected an interim national assembly, about 60 percent of the registered voters turned out nationwide. Sunni Arab leaders actively boycotted that vote, then found themselves with little voice in government.
By contrast, strong participation was reported Saturday in some of the Sunni Arab areas where voters were scarce in January.
No major violence
Elaborate precautions taken by Iraqi and U.S.-led coalition forces prevented any major incidents.
Iraqi soldiers and police protected voting sites, while U.S. and coalition forces were on stand-by in case of trouble.
Vehicles were barred from the streets, so voters walked to the polls. (Watch last-minute preparations -- 2:24
There was scattered violence, however.
Iraqi police said a sniper killed a civilian at a western Baghdad polling station. The sniper, who may have been targeting police, was not captured.
An Iraqi police patrol near a polling station in Baghdad was hit by a roadside bomb shortly after voting started. Two Iraqi police officers were wounded, according to a police official.
And 11 gunmen stormed a Baghdad polling place a half hour after polls closed at 5 p.m. (10 a.m. ET), making off with five boxes of ballots and wounding an electoral commission employee, police said. How many ballots were stolen was not clear.
Election day was heralded Friday night when insurgents attacked a main power line into Baghdad, knocking out electricity to about 70 percent of the capital. By morning, power and water were being restored. (Full story)
Reaction to the vote
A White House spokesman said President Bush -- who has seen public support for his Iraq policy waver in recent months -- was "pleased to hear that Iraqis turned out in large numbers to freely express their views on this historic day."
"Today's vote deals a severe blow to the ambitions of the terrorists and sends a clear message to the world that the people of Iraq will decide the future of their country through peaceful elections, not violent insurgency," spokesman Allen Abney said.
A spokesman for U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan called Saturday's vote "an important opportunity for the Iraqi people to express their political views."
"Whatever the outcome, the secretary-general believes that this referendum offers an opportunity for all Iraqis to move away from violence and to unite in a spirit of national reconciliation to build a democratic, unified and prosperous Iraq," the U.N. spokesman said.
Sunnis' pivotal vote
Chances for approval of the constitution increased considerably Wednesday when the Iraqi Islamic Party -- the largest Sunni Arab party -- dropped its opposition after the transitional assembly agreed to consider changes in the framework once a general election is held in December.
Sunni Arab groups have objected to provisions that would grant more autonomy to Shiite areas in the south and Kurdish areas in the north. They also object to provisions that exclude elements of former dictator Saddam Hussein's Sunni-dominated Baath Party.
How the vote must go
The draft constitution -- hammered out after months of contentious, painstaking negotiations by lawmakers in Iraq's transitional National Assembly -- must be approved by a majority of Iraq's voters.
With strong support in the Shiite and Kurdish communities, which together account for more than three-quarters of the population, that threshold is expected to be met.
However, the constitution will fail if it was rejected by at least two-thirds of the voters in at least three of the country's 18 provinces. With many Sunni Arab groups opposing the document, rejection is considered possible in four provinces where Sunnis predominate. (Full story)
Rejection of the constitution would be a serious blow to Iraq's political evolution since the U.S.-led invasion that toppled Saddam in 2003. The transitional assembly would be dissolved and the process of writing a constitution would have to start over after a new assembly is elected in December.
By contrast, if the constitution is approved, Iraqis would vote in December for a new, permanent government -- possibly clearing the way for the United States and its coalition allies to begin withdrawing troops from Iraq.
CNN correspondent Aneesh Raman, Arab Affairs editor Octavia Nasr and producers Arwa Damon and Mohammed Tawfeeq contributed to this report.
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election: elecci�n; electorales; electorales |
Even if they voted against it, that is good, because it shows that they are still taking hold of their country, in a democratic way. Am so happy for them  .
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:17 pm |
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Huh. We'll argue for over 20 pages whether the invasion and subsequent liberation of Iraq was right or wrong, but we don't care that these people now have the freedom to vote? Something that the people clearly wanted, since they are braving death threats to do so?
What happened to all of the "the Iraqi people were happy as things were" arguments?
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:32 pm |
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The Iraqi people weren't happy as they were. I still don't think that the ends justify the means, however.  But I'm not going to debate it, I think we've been down the road before.
Be happy! Constitutions are good things when done properly, and newsworthy items even when they are not! I'm glad to see that the Iraqis are already well on their way to becoming another dysfunctional democracy.
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Superman
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 06 Dec 2003
Posts: 10220
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| Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:35 pm |
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After the Second World War, it took years for true peace to come to Germany. It'll take years for peace to reign in Iraq. I'm still not sure it was right to invade Iraq without UN approval, but this may be a long road to peace, and may benefit future generations of Iraqis. Good luck to them.
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:25 pm |
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I'm happy for the Iraqis and their new privilage to vote. It's a wonderful thing.
I am bugged at how they got it though. A constitution should be an act of free will by the people who live there. They shouldn't need another country to step in at tell them how to do it. I certainly applaud them for voting and welcoming the change (well, as much as they have).
So yeah, mixed bag of nuts in my opinion 
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:55 pm |
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Is there a copy of this constitution anywhere, that people know of? I'd be curious to see what it looks like, as I've heard mixed opinions on it.
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:15 pm |
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| Exalya wrote: | | Is there a copy of this constitution anywhere, that people know of? I'd be curious to see what it looks like, as I've heard mixed opinions on it. |
Hmm. I would also be interested in realding it as well. I think this may be it:
http://www.cpa-iraq.org/government/TAL.html
I'll read it soon, right now I'm too tired to make sense of the words.
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:04 pm |
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^Doesn't really look like it. It speaks of June 2004 in the future tense.
EDIT: Though, if they're voting on an old draft, maybe it's right. I d'know.
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
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| Wed Oct 19, 2005 3:12 pm |
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Yeah, RM PMd me and corrected me, I just didn't get around to coming back to this thread
It is actually a draft, but it gives a general idea about what is included in it. I'm sure there is a current copy floating around the internet somewhere.
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:34 pm |
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Thank you! I think it is still a draft, but it says that at the top that it is still a draft, but they will be voting on it. I'll finish reading it tomorrow, I'm too tired from work right now.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:09 am |
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This election was INCREDIBLY enlightening. Look at it--MORE than 60% turnourt and overall overwhelmingly in support of the constitution. In such a short time they came so far, and it was enlightening seeing MORE people than vote in a US Presidential election yet again brave the dangers of death and vote--even the Sunnis came out and voted in large numbers, despite the other article just recently posted.
I don't know about you, but I felt very good and enlightened about this. It was exciting watching them vote and all, and I'm glad I can finally post about it here.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Mon Oct 24, 2005 12:19 pm |
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I was glad to get a copy of the constitution and see for myself that the laws are not "worse for women than it was under Saddam" (as many people in my area, who have no idea what the constitution looks like, have pressed). However, it is kind of...irkish...that they established a national religion. Not surprising, of course, but...irkish. I don't see them becoming a truly "civilized" nation (By "civilized" I mean like Britain, Australia, the U.S., France, Germany...) in the near future. Whether this document--not the voting itself, but the document--is a step in the right direction is yet to be seen.
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Mon Oct 24, 2005 3:18 pm |
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I skimmed through the preamble, but it seemed very appropriate.
Article 2:
I am not surprised that they defined a national religion. It makes perfect sense to me. Their constitution needs to reflect their people, and the majority of their people hold their religious laws very strictly. They also establish freedom of religion which should (hopefully and eventually) reduce the religious fighting.
Article 4:
Defining a national language should help smooth out communication without impeading on personal choices of what language to speak. Very sensable.
Article 6:
I hope!
Article 7:
I am curious to see how they will begin implementing this. But I find it very satisfying to see, and hopefully they will organize it in such a way that we can finally pull our own troops out of Iraq.
Article 9:
B: A very good idea. Especially in such a volitile area.
Article 10:
Again, this makes sense in their country, and I think it is there to prevent attacks on sacred areas.
Article 16:
I hope people can understand the difference here between equal opportunity and equal outcome. But I think this is a good clarification to have in their Bill of Rights.
Article 19:
8th: o.o um...
Article 29
4th: This should be a great step in the direction of womens rights. Yay
And I started to zone out right about there...
Their constitution is a great deal longer than ours, but it seems very reasonable given their situation. I hope that it works!
(And I apologize for any really horrible spelling errors...)
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Seven of Nine
Sammie's Mammy
Joined: 16 Jun 2001
Posts: 7871
Location: North East England
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| Mon Oct 24, 2005 3:21 pm |
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Britain has an official religion. Why not the Iraqi's?
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Mon Oct 24, 2005 4:03 pm |
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| Quote: | First: Islam is the official religion of the State and it is a fundamental source of legislation:
A. No law that contradicts the established provisions of Islam may be established. |
...the "A" part gives me pause.
It's all well and fine that they want to do something different with their country. Do I think they're to the point of vaulting themselves into a modern culture...? Not really, no. But hey. We'll see.
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