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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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 Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:28 pm |
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Now that's just ridiculous.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:13 pm |
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I don't find his theory any more outlandish than most others that seriously lack scientific evidence. Good for him.
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:16 pm |
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It's a JOKE. Nothing more. A horrible joke on something that people have SERIOUS feelings about.
EDIT: And Intelligent Design is NOT an outlandish theory. It is LOGICAL.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:19 pm |
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Haha, yes some do have strong feelings about it; afterall some of those hate mail letters were hilarious.
"You're a retard. I hope you die, feel free to kill yourself. Convert before you rot in hell!"
Its interesting that their own hypocrisy seems to nullify any "valid" argument they can create.
But once again, is there any more or less proof in his side than there is for that of ID? Not that I can see.
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:23 pm |
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It's making light of a very serious topic, and I don't think that most philosophers would appreciate it. Though, unfortunately, the proof of this "theory" is no more or less than that of others. We're not talking about teaching Christianity in schools here, though, I'll have to mention, nor Budhism, or Unitarianism... just of a theory of an intelligence behind the universe.
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
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Location: New York
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| Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:25 pm |
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Well, many people with P.hD.s don't seem to have a problem with it. Including Bush (not that he has a P.hD.)
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:30 pm |
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With what? That ignorant joke, or ID?
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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IntrepidIsMe
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Joined: 14 Jun 2002
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| Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:31 pm |
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With either, 
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:32 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | With either, |
'
I don't think that they know about the ignorant joke anyways.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:32 pm |
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Ph.D. doesn't always mean much as far as the person goes. No offense to those with a great deal of education, but I don't see it as meaning anything here.
What I was trying to get across is that the spaghetti monster or whatever would not be valid to teach. That's like teaching about the Christian rather than Muslim God (Depending on if you view them as different concepts--I do), or Christian vs. Unitarian. I see a big difference between intelligent design and preaching religion.
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:33 pm |
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Satire is the best way to get a point across, for numerous reasons. Firstly, it lets one know who has a sense of humour and who doesn't (and those who don't should rent one for the day and try it out, it feels good). Secondly, it deflates tension. And an easier negotation is a better negotiation, for both sides. 
I do not see how this is "preposterous." I do see it is clearly of satirical value, and not "serious," but it includes some scientific and anecdotal evidence, eh. 
Exalya does bring up a relevant facet to the discussion with the point that the specific invocation of a deity brings it more to religious grounds than scientific ones.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:36 pm |
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| Hitchhiker wrote: | Satire is the best way to get a point across, for numerous reasons. Firstly, it lets one know who has a sense of humour and who doesn't (and those who don't should rent one for the day and try it out, it feels good). Secondly, it deflates tension. And an easier negotation is a better negotiation, for both sides.
I do not see how this is "preposterous." I do see it is clearly of satirical value, and not "serious," but it includes some scientific and anecdotal evidence, eh.
Exalya does bring up a relevant facet to the discussion with the point that the specific invocation of a deity brings it more to religious grounds than scientific ones. |
First, Exalya's right in her points. This specificity is like teacher ABOUT God in ID. That's not it. It's not teaching a religion.
Second, someone who HAS A SENSE OF HUMOR? What! Satire? That's disgusting stuff, and it's just horrifying for you to say that it's for a person with a "good sense of humor" to understand or whatever the hell you're taling about? It's preposterous, and there should be NO PLACE for an IGNORANT JOKE--not satire--here. You liberals are always quick to talk about satire for things that aren't satire. It's ridiculous.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:36 pm |
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If Athiests are going to destroy Religion, can't they have the decency to at least admit it. Geez. There is no real reason for you to get rid of ID in schools. You're saying it because you don't like Religion. Plain and simple. At least admit it. I might have an iota more respect for you. Instead you hide behind "Science should be taught in science class!!!" You're teaching a theory. We're offering another theory. It just so happens to be one that you all personally hate, so you're doing everything you can to get it out of schools.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
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| Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:38 pm |
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^And rationalize an ignorant joke for something entirely serious as satire, as well.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:40 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | If Athiests are going to destroy Religion, can't they have the decency to at least admit it. Geez. There is no real reason for you to get rid of ID in schools. You're saying it because you don't like Religion. Plain and simple. At least admit it. I might have an iota more respect for you. Instead you hide behind "Science should be taught in science class!!!" You're teaching a theory. We're offering another theory. It just so happens to be one that you all personally hate, so you're doing everything you can to get it out of schools. |
Actually, I can see the argument that philosophy and science should be seperate. However, I happen to believe in integrating philosophy into all sorts of aspects of life, therefore I'm good with science mixing with philosophy a tad. It should not be a focus, but an acknowledgement, in the discussion of beginnings of the universe.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
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| Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:41 pm |
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^You know, I think I could agree with that, actually. But this ignorant joke that's not satire, as liberals are quick to call things that they find humorous but aren't right to have, is not a good thing, obviously (as I know you agree with).
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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IntrepidIsMe
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Joined: 14 Jun 2002
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| Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:41 pm |
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| Exalya wrote: | Ph.D. doesn't always mean much as far as the person goes. No offense to those with a great deal of education, but I don't see it as meaning anything here.
What I was trying to get across is that the spaghetti monster or whatever would not be valid to teach. That's like teaching about the Christian rather than Muslim God (Depending on if you view them as different concepts--I do), or Christian vs. Unitarian. I see a big difference between intelligent design and preaching religion. |
Well, the idea of "god" isn't a religion. And that would be the implication behind ID. Of course, the idea behind this spaghetti monster thing would be the same idea behind that of "god." It doesn't matter either way, as far as I can see.
I agree, a PhD doesn't exactly mean much, but if you're educated up to that point, I'd take your opinion on a subject such as this with a slightly higher degree of consideration than with say... an average 8th grade english teacher. Ya know?
And I don't know anybody with the intention to "destroy Religion."
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:42 pm |
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I don't really mind it being seperate per se, but I refuse to allow Religion to be put out of schools altogether. It isn't right or fair.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:43 pm |
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Intelligent design discusses a designer, NOT God persay. This ignorant joke calls for the recognition of one person as the designer, which obviously isn't a good thing, and it doesn't make sense for you to go against intelligent design and yet rationalize this ignorant joke when obviously it talks about making this spagheti person the designer--giving him an exact name like that.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:46 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Exalya wrote: | Ph.D. doesn't always mean much as far as the person goes. No offense to those with a great deal of education, but I don't see it as meaning anything here.
What I was trying to get across is that the spaghetti monster or whatever would not be valid to teach. That's like teaching about the Christian rather than Muslim God (Depending on if you view them as different concepts--I do), or Christian vs. Unitarian. I see a big difference between intelligent design and preaching religion. |
Well, the idea of "god" isn't a religion. And that would be the implication behind ID. Of course, the idea behind this spaghetti monster thing would be the same idea behind that of "god." It doesn't matter either way, as far as I can see.
I agree, a PhD doesn't exactly mean much, but if you're educated up to that point, I'd take your opinion on a subject such as this with a slightly higher degree of consideration than with say... an average 8th grade english teacher. Ya know? |
*shrugs* My boss only has a masters' and works with a guy who has his Ph.D. Which one is actually smarter, more open, and more ingenuitous? It's not the Proffessor, that's for certain.
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:49 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | I don't really mind it being seperate per se, but I refuse to allow Religion to be put out of schools altogether. It isn't right or fair. |
Indeed, religion can be studied in school. Many universities offer it. I wouldn't mind having it in a high school (our local Catholic board offers it). Just not in the science classroom. In a philosophy class, yes, or even in a theology class.
| Republican_Man wrote: | | ^You know, I think I could agree with that, actually. But this ignorant joke that's not satire, as liberals are quick to call things that they find humorous but aren't right to have, is not a good thing, obviously (as I know you agree with). |
Satire should not be taken seriously. Doing so can be dangerous for one's health.
After all, as God said:
| Douglas Adams wrote: | | In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move. |
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IntrepidIsMe
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| Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:49 pm |
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Yes, I see where you're coming from. If you specialize in a field of work, I'd just assume you'd just know more about it, 
| Republican_Man wrote: | | Intelligent design discusses a designer, NOT God persay. This ignorant joke calls for the recognition of one person as the designer, which obviously isn't a good thing, and it doesn't make sense for you to go against intelligent design and yet rationalize this ignorant joke when obviously it talks about making this spagheti person the designer--giving him an exact name like that. |
As I said, the implication behind ID is that of "god." Afterall, here we are given all kinds of information everyday about the idea of "god" being in our lives. If you hear that a designer created the universe and life itself, what would be the rational outcome of your thought process based on the information given you? God.
And as I said, I agree. It wouldn't matter since according to this theory "god" is the spaghetti monster. So would there be a difference? No.
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:53 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | Yes, I see where you're coming from. If you specialize in a field of work, I'd just assume you'd just know more about it,
| Republican_Man wrote: | | Intelligent design discusses a designer, NOT God persay. This ignorant joke calls for the recognition of one person as the designer, which obviously isn't a good thing, and it doesn't make sense for you to go against intelligent design and yet rationalize this ignorant joke when obviously it talks about making this spagheti person the designer--giving him an exact name like that. |
As I said, the implication behind ID is that of "god." Afterall, here we are given all kinds of information everyday about the idea of "god" being in our lives. If you hear that a designer created the universe and life itself, what would be the rational outcome of your thought process based on the information given you? God.
And as I said, I agree. It wouldn't matter since according to this theory "god" is the spaghetti monster. So would there be a difference? No. |
Yes, it MAY imply God. But does it actually say it? NO. This actually NAMES the designer. There's a BIG difference, and you're blind if you don't see it.
And Tach, that is a funny quote, but it's different from this, a serious issue up for debate in the court, not worthy of an IGNORANT JOKE--not satire. Ridiculous. You are all ridiculous.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:59 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | And Tach, that is a funny quote, but it's different from this, a serious issue up for debate in the court, not worthy of an IGNORANT JOKE--not satire. Ridiculous. You are all ridiculous. |
Political satire is the best form of satire:
- Animal Farm
- The Royal Canadian Air Farce
- This Hour Has 22 Minutes
- The Daily Show
And those are but a few examples of a pervasive form of media that is perfect for exposing the fact that the entire human species are a planet of idiots.
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