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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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 Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:36 am Religious bigotry in the army |
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This article has me highly disturbed...
| Quote: | A foundation that has sued the military alleging widespread violations of religious freedom said Tuesday that it has evidence showing that soldiers are pressured to adopt fundamentalist Christian beliefs.
The photos and videos of religious materials and activities are part of a lawsuit filed by the Military Religious Freedom Foundation and Army Spc. Jeremy Hall, an atheist, against Maj. Freddy J. Welborn and Defense Secretary Robert Gates.
The material was gathered from Fort Riley in Kansas, the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs, Colo., and Fort Jackson, S.C.
Examples at Fort Riley, where Hall is stationed, included a display outside his military police battalion's office with a quote from conservative writer Ann Coulter saying, "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity." |
Source
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Omok
Lieutenant
Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 170
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| Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:18 pm |
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I served in the Army. I am a Buddhist, and I lost count of the number of times people attempted to "save" me.
As far as I can tell...as long as there is more than one religion...there will be bigotry...especially in a setting where uniformity is prized above all.
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:30 pm Re: Religious bigotry in the army |
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| Founder wrote: |
| Quote: | | "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity." |
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That part there is so disturbing words cannot describe.
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Omok
Lieutenant
Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 170
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| Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:58 pm Re: Religious bigotry in the army |
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| PrankishSmart wrote: | | Founder wrote: |
| Quote: | | "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity." |
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That part there is so disturbing words cannot describe. |
But historically has been the rallying cry for many a war...
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Zeke Zabertini
Captain
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 4832
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| Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:55 am |
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Mm. You don't have to be Christian to serve your country.
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:21 am Re: Religious bigotry in the army |
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| Omok wrote: | | PrankishSmart wrote: | | Founder wrote: |
| Quote: | | "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity." |
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That part there is so disturbing words cannot describe. |
But historically has been the rallying cry for many a war... |
Fortunately though they have all landed in failure by historic accounts in terms of previous wars outcomes. As for beginning a war, that is a sad point.
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Omok
Lieutenant
Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 170
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| Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:18 am Re: Religious bigotry in the army |
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| PrankishSmart wrote: | | Fortunately though they have all landed in failure by historic accounts in terms of previous wars outcomes. As for beginning a war, that is a sad point. |
Regardless of failure, the most disturbing aspect is the damage done...people killed in the name of religion, landmarks and holy sites destroyed because they are "evil"...documents burned...
Christianity and Islam are the two most destructive religions in history.
Just ask the Aztecs and Hungarians.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:53 am Re: Religious bigotry in the army |
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| Omok wrote: | Christianity and Islam are the two most destructive religions in history.
Just ask the Aztecs and Hungarians. |
Religions aren't destructive. Religions are nothing. Religion can't force you to do anything. It is not a literal being.
People are destructive. Especially when one follows an idealogy (religion, political, nationalism, etc).
Religion is anything we want it to be. Unfortunately, we've seemed to want it to be a tool to rally the masses. Usually to accomplish evil deeds.
As for the topic itself, I'm in awe of these actions. It isn't the epitome of bad, but are we literally at a point where non-Christians aren't American enough to serve in the military? Goodness...
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Omok
Lieutenant
Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 170
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| Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:20 pm |
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Perhaps my wording was off...
| Omok wrote: | The followers of Christianity and Islam are the most destructive religious zealots in history.
Just ask the Aztecs and Hungarians. |
| Quote: | | Religions aren't destructive. Religions are nothing. Religion can't force you to do anything. It is not a literal being. |
Not to sound trite and immature, but duh, you knew full well what I meant.
| Quote: | | Unfortunately, we've seemed to want it to be a tool to rally the masses. Usually to accomplish evil deeds. |
This is a blatant generalization that does not apply to Buddhism, Jainism, Baha'i or many other religions...as you point out yourself, it's the people that misinterpret the dogma that cause the issue.
| Quote: | | As for the topic itself, I'm in awe of these actions. |
I can't see why...religious bigotry isn't new...it isn't unheard of.
| Quote: | | It isn't the epitome of bad, but are we literally at a point where non-Christians aren't American enough to serve in the military? Goodness... |
Hardly, but the idea of uniformity, as I point out in my initial post, is an extremely strong aspect of the military life(style). Non-Christians are not necessarily pursued, but when they speak up, or draw needless attention to themselves, they will be often dealt with in a harsh and unnecessary tone.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:30 pm |
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Wow I seemed to have struck a nerve here...
| Omok wrote: | | Perhaps my wording was off... |
Perhaps or I could have simply been in error.
| Omok wrote: | | Not to sound trite and immature, but duh, you knew full well what I meant. |
I knew what you meant? No, I didn't. All you said was that two particular religions have been the most destructive in history. You said nothing about an understanding that it isn't simply the dogma in those religions. You said nothing about the understanding that it is men that take heart to the verses that preach killing, while simultaneously ignoring the verses that preach humanity and peace. If somehow you did say that in your post, then I apologize for missing it.
| Omok wrote: | | This is a blatant generalization that does not apply to Buddhism, Jainism, Baha'i or many other religions...as you point out yourself, it's the people that misinterpret the dogma that cause the issue. |
Blatant generalization? Would you have prefered it if I literally sat here and listed every single religion and pointed to the body count or lack therof of each one?  However, if it truly makes you happy, then yes, there are many religions that have done nothing but actually adhere to their peaceful teachings.
However, yes, I'm not saying all religions are bad. In fact, I defend religion often. I was just pointing out that too many times, religion is turned into a weapon, rather then a teaching.
| Omok wrote: | | I can't see why...religious bigotry isn't new...it isn't unheard of. |
Racism isn't new either. Should I also not be surprised, astonished, shocked by it either?
I'm not shocked by religious bigotry. I'm shocked that this utter ridiculousness is occuring in our armed forces. As if our soldiers don't have enough to deal with. Now this? I'm fully aware that our own armed forces hasn't been the most tolerate in the past, but this is simply stupid. I'm in awe that this occuring there of all places. Maybe it shouldn't be surprising, but it certainly is dissapointing (to me).
| Omok wrote: | | Hardly, but the idea of uniformity, as I point out in my initial post, is an extremely strong aspect of the military life(style). Non-Christians are not necessarily pursued, but when they speak up, or draw needless attention to themselves, they will be often dealt with in a harsh and unnecessary tone. |
Perhaps so. It still just feels so... I don't know. I'm at a loss for words, because it seems to ridiculous. I'm not shocked by Christians trying to "save" others, but must this be dragged into the armed forces? Especially during a time when our armed forces are suffering through a war. In addition, recruitment numbers are not high at all. Stuff like this will turn people away from the military.
I hope my responses didn't seem hostile, especially as it seems we are in mild agreement. I was however baffeled at some of your responses towards me.
Anywho, good discussion.
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Omok
Lieutenant
Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 170
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| Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:54 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | Anywho, good discussion. |
Yeah...
I can see it being upsetting, appalling, be not surprising...
| Quote: | | All you said was that two particular religions have been the most destructive in history. |
So, either you didn't infer the obvious that I was discussing the people [perpetrators] of these dogmatic crimes, or you think I'm dumb enough to think that an idea can be held accountable for something a person does...?
| Quote: | | However, if it truly makes you happy, then yes, there are many religions that have done nothing but actually adhere to their peaceful teachings. |
Well, you needn't please me, but you should definitely attempt to be accurate and all encompassing in your statements, especially when discussing a sensitive topic such as religion.
Perhaps "Unfortunately, some have seemed to want it to be a tool to rally the masses. Usually to accomplish evil deeds.", would have been better...
| Quote: | | Especially during a time when our armed forces are suffering through a war. |
Many people turn to faith/religion to deal with the trials of war...not really surprising.
| Quote: | | Stuff like this will turn people away from the military. |
They are meeting their goals this year.
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