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the1st
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 83
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 Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:14 pm Warp 10? or is it 13? |
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as you kno im a jnr trekkie(novice beginner)i thought warp 10 was the maximum theoretical or obtainable speed...but in one TNG crusher asks for warp 13...can you help me??as i say iam learning
[Edited to reflect topic content - Lord Borg]
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:20 pm |
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That was the episode in which Picard is transporting, if you will, through time, correct?
What that is is in the future, so the assumption would be that they somehow developed faster technology over time, hence the faster-than-Warp 10 speed. It's in the future, so that would make a bit of sense.
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La Forge
Bajoran Colonel
Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 2125
Location: Babylon 5
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| Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:21 pm |
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Yes. I believe that line was in "All Good Things..." TNG's series finale.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:23 pm |
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I don't believe it was the Series Finale, though 
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:25 pm |
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lol, never mind. Yes, it was, actually. I didn't realize that...
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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the1st
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 83
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| Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:27 pm |
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yes it was all good things the finale....just i thought above warp 9.99 was time travel or does that contain different factors???(feeling dizzy...lets not get into tempral mechanics lol)
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lionhead
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)
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| Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:07 am |
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Alright, one more time.
Warp 10 is Infinite speed, its the one Tom Paris did in the Delta flyer that caused him to see every part of the galaxy all at once. Going "past" the warp 10 barrier is impossible since its infinite speed. However, what most people seem to be missing is that you can keep underneath Warp 10 infinitly, because you can put 9's behind the comma indefinitly(like warp 9,999999999999 etc.)
However, when a ship would be able to go warp 9,99999 it wouldn't be very practical to say that to the Helms man when they need to go that speed. So instead they call warp 9,999(for example) warp 11 to make it easier to say. its not faster then warp 10, they just skip that one.
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Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:55 pm |
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| lionhead wrote: | Alright, one more time.
Warp 10 is Infinite speed, its the one Tom Paris did in the Delta flyer that caused him to see every part of the galaxy all at once. Going "past" the warp 10 barrier is impossible since its infinite speed. However, what most people seem to be missing is that you can keep underneath Warp 10 infinitly, because you can put 9's behind the comma indefinitly(like warp 9,999999999999 etc.)
However, when a ship would be able to go warp 9,99999 it wouldn't be very practical to say that to the Helms man when they need to go that speed. So instead they call warp 9,999(for example) warp 11 to make it easier to say. its not faster then warp 10, they just skip that one. |
First off, Paris didn't do it in the Delta Flyer...seeing as to how the Delta Flyer didn't exist in season 2. It was actually the shuttlecraft Cochrane...
Second, they don't use commas...it's a period...AKA "point." (Yes I realize that in other countries you use commas, but on Star Trek they don't...LOL)
and Thirdly...I doubt that your last paragraph is true...It's probably just the original warp factor scale that they used on TOS...because on TOS they could go faster than Warp 10...the infinite speed...ONLY because it was a different warp scale...Gene Roddenberry then changed the warp scale for TNG which stayed the same for DS9 and Voyager...and then in "All Good Things" they probably reverted back to the TOS warp scale...No promises on my part in that explanation, it makes more sense than just "skipping" warp "10" and going to 11...therefore TECHNICALLY being faster than an already infinite speed...
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Valathous
The Canadian, eh
Joined: 31 Aug 2002
Posts: 19074
Location: Centre Bell
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| Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:28 pm |
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| Daystrom Institute Technical Library wrote: | When Professor Terrance and Doctor Neltorr proposed their "TNG scale", they had shown that a graph of the power required to propel any object at warp speeds would show certain minima which matched integer warp factors. On the TNG scale the velocity of an object - under ideal conditions - would be given by raising the warp factor it was travelling at to the power of 10/3, up to warp factor nine. Beyond warp nine the exponent increased gradually, then sharply as warp 10 was neared. At warp 10 itself the exponent became infinite7 - an object reaching warp 10 would achieve infinite speed, passing through every point in the universe simultaneously.1 Standard warp drives required infinite power to achieve warp 10 - naturally this seemed an impossible task. Scientists of the day where quite confident in proclaiming Warp 10 as the ultimate impassable barrier.
In 2269, scientists working for the Daystrom Institute took the theoretical models of subspace created by Terrance and Neltorr one step further. It was realized that the mathematics allowed for a second subspace region stretching from the warp 10 barrier up to another, similar barrier at warp 20 - a region which a public relations officer in the Daystrom Institute press office dubbed the "transwarp domain", a name which has stuck despite its inaccuracy.
In 2270 it was realized that even this theoretical transwarp domain was only part of the whole structure. The theory allowed for an infinite number of such domains, each separated by a warp barrier. Throughout the early 2270's there was a huge effort to discover whether these transwarp domains where just theoretical constructs, or if they actually existed. In 2273 the Starfleet science vessel USSWandererconducted a subspace particle dissipation experiment which proved conclusively that not only did transwarp domains actually exist, but that under certain circumstances it was possible for matter to circumvent the warp barrier and pass into the transwarp domain.
Theoretical and practical studies quickly established that at a point infinitesimally past Warp 10, the warp factor exponent fell from infinity to zero and then began to gradually rise again. By Warp 11 the exponent reached 13/3, after which it mirrors the behaviour of the normal warp curve. A Warp 19 the exponent begins to climb, again reaching infinity at warp 20 to form the next warp barrier. The whole process is repeated again in the second transwarp domain, and again in the third, and so on. In each domain the "steady" central value of the exponent increases linearly - from 10/3 in the warp domain to 13/3 in the first transwarp domain, 16/3 in the second, then 19/3, 22/3, and so on. |
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:22 pm |
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Okay, I get what that's saying, but I don't think that's what was happening in TNG...just for the mere fact that you have to FIRST reach infinite power on a starship to, apparently, cross the Warp 10 threshold...which is probably near impossible to do...
And I see that the info came from DITL, which is full of non-canon info...could you give me the exact link to get to that so I can reference it myself? Because I've never heard of this myself personally...but I'm also not saying it's wrong either...but never heard it on Trek, therefore it's probably not canon...But like I said, I'd like to see for myself...
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"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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Sonic74205
Rear Admiral
Joined: 01 Feb 2004
Posts: 4081
Location: England
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| Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:39 pm |
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There are two explanations for them saying "Warp 13" in TNGs "All Good Things"
1. It is in the future and a slightly alternate reality where they use a different warp scale meaning that they are not actually traveling at infinate velocity.
2. It has been wondered that TNG hadent actually defined the difference between TOS warp scaled and TNG warp scales. Many of the Hardcore fans werent around back then so there wasnt mutch need for everything they mention in the show to be correct. Plus remember that the warp 10 infinite velocity was thought of and mentioned after TNG so really when you think about it Voyager is wrong. But its probably just a correction the makers decided on...
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:19 pm |
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No...because Gene Roddenberry changed the warp scale FOR TNG...And Trek kept the same scale for DS9 and VOY...meaning that Warp 10 was already established as the warp barrier, but not MENTIONED until Voyager...It is possible to have something already established early on and just not mentioned until much later...
and it's like I said in "All Good Things" that they probably reverted back to the TOS warp scale for that alternate timeline...
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"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Sat Apr 08, 2006 1:21 am |
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| Voyager2004 wrote: | No...because Gene Roddenberry changed the warp scale FOR TNG...And Trek kept the same scale for DS9 and VOY...meaning that Warp 10 was already established as the warp barrier, but not MENTIONED until Voyager...It is possible to have something already established early on and just not mentioned until much later...
and it's like I said in "All Good Things" that they probably reverted back to the TOS warp scale for that alternate timeline... |
Another speculation is yet another re drawn warp scale, because it would be inconvenient to say "Engange at warp 9.99999999999"  So to measure all the peasky nines added a new warp scale was thhus made. That or, a differnt measure of faster then light travle was found, and was still called "warp"
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Sonic74205
Rear Admiral
Joined: 01 Feb 2004
Posts: 4081
Location: England
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| Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:56 am |
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| Voyager2004 wrote: | No...because Gene Roddenberry changed the warp scale FOR TNG...And Trek kept the same scale for DS9 and VOY...meaning that Warp 10 was already established as the warp barrier, but not MENTIONED until Voyager...It is possible to have something already established early on and just not mentioned until much later...
and it's like I said in "All Good Things" that they probably reverted back to the TOS warp scale for that alternate timeline... |
I already said that.
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Sun Apr 09, 2006 2:09 am |
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| Sonic74205 wrote: | | Voyager2004 wrote: | No...because Gene Roddenberry changed the warp scale FOR TNG...And Trek kept the same scale for DS9 and VOY...meaning that Warp 10 was already established as the warp barrier, but not MENTIONED until Voyager...It is possible to have something already established early on and just not mentioned until much later...
and it's like I said in "All Good Things" that they probably reverted back to the TOS warp scale for that alternate timeline... |
I already said that. |
You don't need to "yell" at me by making your font bigger...and secondly, I said it first, THEN you said it, and I was re-iterating that I said that same thing already...Please, fully read someone's post before "yelling" at them...
Anyway, to Lord Borg...That would make sense, but at the same time going at warp 9.99999999999999 and on would just require such a vast amount of power that COULD be possible to reach on just one ship, but very difficult...
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"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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Sonic74205
Rear Admiral
Joined: 01 Feb 2004
Posts: 4081
Location: England
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| Sun Apr 09, 2006 8:33 am |
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I didnt yell at you. I didnt even choose to make my font bigger. and if i was yelling it would be in capitols with lots of exclamation marks.
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:41 am |
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| Voyager2004 wrote: | | Sonic74205 wrote: | | Voyager2004 wrote: | No...because Gene Roddenberry changed the warp scale FOR TNG...And Trek kept the same scale for DS9 and VOY...meaning that Warp 10 was already established as the warp barrier, but not MENTIONED until Voyager...It is possible to have something already established early on and just not mentioned until much later...
and it's like I said in "All Good Things" that they probably reverted back to the TOS warp scale for that alternate timeline... |
I already said that. |
You don't need to "yell" at me by making your font bigger...and secondly, I said it first, THEN you said it, and I was re-iterating that I said that same thing already...Please, fully read someone's post before "yelling" at them...
Anyway, to Lord Borg...That would make sense, but at the same time going at warp 9.99999999999999 and on would just require such a vast amount of power that COULD be possible to reach on just one ship, but very difficult... |
Still less then warp ten and I didn't mean litteritly that many nines, but look at Ent-D 9.12 or something like that, by the time ENT-E came, it was 9.975....
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lionhead
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)
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| Sun Apr 09, 2006 3:35 pm |
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| Voyager2004 wrote: |
Anyway, to Lord Borg...That would make sense, but at the same time going at warp 9.99999999999999 and on would just require such a vast amount of power that COULD be possible to reach on just one ship, but very difficult... |
Indeed, it would requite transwarp or slipstream powers. How to call that?
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Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore
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djlazerx
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 71
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| Tue Dec 26, 2006 3:13 am Re: Warp 10? or is it 13? |
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| the1st wrote: | as you kno im a jnr trekkie(novice beginner)i thought warp 10 was the maximum theoretical or obtainable speed...but in one TNG crusher asks for warp 13...can you help me??as i say iam learning
[Edited to reflect topic content - Lord Borg] |
its more of a writing error but perhaps in that alternate timeline transwarp has been perfected but that base it on a traditional warp scale in that timeline. Personally I think the Slipstream drive will be the next era for travel. Transwarp has proven to be a failed project for the federation at least in the past. But Voyager adapted the technology if just for a short time and it work. I think by 2460 it will be perfected see my future series idea posts.
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