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StarfleetCommand74656
Captain
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 653
Location: On STV
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 Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:06 am That Damn Holographic Glass of Wine! |
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In The Cloud Paris says to KIm "It's holographic wine, you won't get heartburn"
- if the wine was holographic entirely, it would be a projection and wouldn't even leave the glass
- if it was linked into the replicators, it would give him heartburn cause it's real wine- unless it was de-alcoholised or something but no-one said that.
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:57 pm |
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I think what he meant was, it was not 'real', like, it was wine, but not actual wine. Alcoholic drinks made my the replicator/holodeck arer not really said drinks you order, only by taste is it the same.
-------signature-------
When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears
When you'd scream I'd fight away all of your fears
And I held your hand through all of these years
But you still have
All of me
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robbiewebster
Rear Admiral
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 2594
Location: Rochester, New York
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| Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:02 pm |
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If its holographic would it have taste? Would it create a cold sensation as it went down your throat? Why would that even be in the script. It just sounds so dumb.
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squiggy
Stooge Two
Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Posts: 3007
Location: Messing with the fabric of Video Game realities. I'll summon Shiva on you! I SWEAR!
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| Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:08 am |
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| robbiewebster wrote: | | If its holographic would it have taste? Would it create a cold sensation as it went down your throat? Why would that even be in the script. It just sounds so dumb. |
1) As stated in the TNG episode where Jimmy Doohan guest-stared in, The 24th century doesn't use alcohol, it uses Synthehol.
2) If it is in any kind of holographic simulation, if the person would attempt to drink it, the holographic image of wine would be replaced by actual wine, however, there is a good chance that the safety protocols in place may not allow alcohol/synthehol to be ingested, so it would instead, substitute the alcoholic/syntheholic beverage with a non-alcoholic replacement.
3) It would create a cold sensation, and a taste upon leaving the glass, because once it is inside your body, it is an actual fluid, not a holographic representation thereof.
4) It would be in the script regardless because the writers are brilliant people who want these kind of arguments to show up so the can retort later in the series by explaining this kind of technology.
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lionhead
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)
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| Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:35 am |
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Indeed i think that Alcohol or Synthehol is forbidden on a starship for the crew at least.
So when you would drink wine replicated by the holodeck(as that is what the holodeck can do, and does a lot of times) it would be Alcohol/Synthehol free.
-------signature-------
Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore
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squiggy
Stooge Two
Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Posts: 3007
Location: Messing with the fabric of Video Game realities. I'll summon Shiva on you! I SWEAR!
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| Sun Apr 15, 2007 12:08 pm |
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| lionhead wrote: | Indeed i think that Alcohol or Synthehol is forbidden on a starship for the crew at least.
So when you would drink wine replicated by the holodeck(as that is what the holodeck can do, and does a lot of times) it would be Alcohol/Synthehol free. |
We have seen several starfleet officers, including Captain Picard drink alcohol, and synthehol... however... I don't think regulations like ALCOHOL being consumed. In that same episode I listed, Data pointed out that synthehol has no lasting side effects, and can be easily overcome with mild mental thought... so there shouldn't be any regulations which state that synthehol can't be ingested.
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Andi McDougal
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 93
Location: York, PA
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| Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:00 pm |
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Now, in the one Voyager episode (can't remember off the top of my head), one character gets rip roarin' drunk off of Synthehol and gets one heck of a hangover. So, if the effects of synthehol could be reversed with a thought, why couldn't he do it?
The other thought is that if you drink holographic alcohol and get drunk from it, when you walked out the door of the holodeck, wouldn't that mean that the alcohol in your system would be instantly gone...thus instantly becoming sober...would that produce an instant hangover? Or, would that hangover you ended up with instantly go away? Another product of very late nights and too many episodes of Voyager. lol
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:31 am |
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I recall a voy ep where Paris got wrecked on a lot of alcohol and tired to hook up with 7 while drunk. I remember Janeway saying something like 'you replicated x amount of alcoholic beverages'.
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Andi McDougal
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 93
Location: York, PA
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| Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:54 am Re: That Damn Holographic Glass of Wine! |
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| StarfleetCommand74656 wrote: | In The Cloud
- if the wine was holographic entirely, it would be a projection and wouldn't even leave the glass
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If that's the case, then why was Janeway drying her hair after a dunk in the holographic river in "Concerning Flight"?
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StarfleetCommand74656
Captain
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 653
Location: On STV
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| Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:49 pm |
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Yeah, I thought of that, thats why I gave both possibilities.
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lionhead
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)
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| Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:55 pm |
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Haha, if it was just projection and you would take a dive into the holographic water you would smack your head on the floor. 
-------signature-------
Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:27 pm |
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Alcohol is pretty much no more in the future. That's why it's called Synthehol. Because it SYNTHESIZES the affects of alcohol without the damaging affects of alcohol against your organs. Yes, there are drinks that are alcoholic, don't get me wrong. But it would strike me that in the Federation it's strictly Synthehol.
And as for the holodeck, I doubt that it would just replace the holographic drink. It's not exactly as though the computer is going to know when you put the cup to your mouth to drink and replace. Now, in my opinion, the users of the program should just know better than to drink it, I mean, DUH...but other than that, I would say if you did drink it, then it would just remain there while your body tried to digest something that wasn't real, and would fial. Then as you left the holodeck, it would clearly disappear from your stomach. Because the holodeck creates "Photons and forcefields." It doesn't create real food or drinks like that of a replicator.
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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lionhead
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)
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| Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:01 pm |
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The Holodeck can definitely replicate. Or picard would have never been able to kill those Drones in First Contact. Those bullets where replicated by the holodeck. Drinks a food can thus be replicated as well. A person can still choke on a chicken bone on the holodeck, even with safety protocols on.
As for synthehol, yes it does take away the hang-overs but the person who drinks it still gets intoxicated. Depends if they are on duty i guess.
-------signature-------
Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:24 pm |
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First, those bullets killed the drones because the SAFETY PROTOCOLS were off. Picard said, "Without the safety protocols, even a holographic bullet can kill." They weren't replicated. They then able to kill. Meaning with the safety protocols, I could get shot, and not die. It wasn't "replicated."
A person can choke on the chicken bone if the protocols were off, but why would you want to eat something that does nothing for your body? So that's just dumb.
Synthehol doesn't take away the hang overs so much as it doesn't damage or harm the body like real alcohol. Now, maybe it does allow a person to not have a hang over, but to me it would seem as though you could still have it. But that I honestly don't know.
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:51 pm |
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Actually, Synthehol produces the effects of alcohol, but the person drinking it is still very much in control, and one does not become addicted to it.
-------signature-------
When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears
When you'd scream I'd fight away all of your fears
And I held your hand through all of these years
But you still have
All of me
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squiggy
Stooge Two
Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Posts: 3007
Location: Messing with the fabric of Video Game realities. I'll summon Shiva on you! I SWEAR!
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| Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:13 pm |
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Source: http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Holodeck The Ultimate Trek Cannon website:
Holodeck matter can impersonate real matter even at the molecular level. (VOY: "Phage") Molecule-sized magnetic bubbles replace molecules in full resolution holographic objects. The computer can manipulate them individually in three dimensions. The computer may use large magnetic bubbles to simulate surfaces and textures rather than create an object at the molecular level. However, objects created within the holodeck would not exist beyond the holodeck itself, as they only exist as energy. (TNG: "The Big Goodbye")
A holodeck can modify the appearance of the persons in it. In Tom Paris' holoprogram "Captain Proton", everything and everyone can only be seen black and white. Seven of Nine used the holodeck to hide her cybernetic implants. (VOY: "Human Error") However, it is unclear if this illusion works for Humans, because the only "persons" attending the program were Seven herself and the Doctor, who himself was holographic.
Holograms can also be projected into space. They can be augmented with force beams to simulate solid, tangible objects or with replicator technology to create actual solid matter such as foodstuffs. All food eaten on the holodeck are replications. No other type of simulation would survive outside of the holodeck.
HAH! Told you it was replicated.
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:08 pm |
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So, where does it say that Memory Alpha is the "Ultimate Canon Trek website?" I've never heard that.
And to LB, I would have to disagree that the person is in control. Because, if it produces the effects of alcohol, then you're not really in control. I mean, we even see Seven of Nine under it's influence and she had a staggering walk and had to be helped out by the Doctor. (Timeless)
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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squiggy
Stooge Two
Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Posts: 3007
Location: Messing with the fabric of Video Game realities. I'll summon Shiva on you! I SWEAR!
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| Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:57 am |
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Source: http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Portal:Main
Memory Alpha is a collaborative project to create the most definitive, accurate, and accessible encyclopedia and reference for everything related to Star Trek. The English-language Memory Alpha started in November 2003, and currently consists of 24,882 articles.
Even founder uses it as cannon for his RPG.
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lionhead
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)
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| Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:34 am |
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Its just a cannon as Wikipedia. In fact, it is Wikipedia.
Wikipedia isn't considdered canon, so Memory alpha can't be either. They have a lot of mistakes.
I'm ashamed of memroy alpha for its article about the Borg Queen.
-------signature-------
Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:35 pm |
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| squiggy wrote: | Source: http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Portal:Main
Memory Alpha is a collaborative project to create the most definitive, accurate, and accessible encyclopedia and reference for everything related to Star Trek. The English-language Memory Alpha started in November 2003, and currently consists of 24,882 articles.
Even founder uses it as cannon for his RPG. |
A collaborative project...collaboration between who? It doesn't say.
And there are a number of places that a number of people here use to prove their points, but that doesn't make it canon.
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:05 pm |
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No, I'm sorry to disagree, but Memory Alpha is canon. They only accept things that were seen on the tv show.
When they try and add in speculative stuff, they make it clear that it is only speculation and not canon.
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:24 pm |
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Well, this is off topic, but, if you don't think it's canon, then you really should read MA's canon policy. Basically, if it did not happen on screen? It's not allowed on MA, while there is a few exceptions, very little of it is done so.
As for Synthohol...
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Synthehol
is a chemical variant of alcohol. It appears to have the same taste and smell as 'real' alcohol to most individuals but none of the deleterious effects associated with alcohol for most humanoids; e.g.; irreversible-intoxication, addiction and alcohol poisoning. Most humanoids have an enzyme which breaks down the alcohol-like proteins in synthehol. According to Data, synthehol's "intoxicating effects can be easily dismissed"
So, it has similar taste, and smell, but the effects are basically non exsistant (If you can say they even exsist).
-------signature-------
When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears
When you'd scream I'd fight away all of your fears
And I held your hand through all of these years
But you still have
All of me
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:24 pm |
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I am not arguing that it is not canon...I'm just arguing the point that someone said it is "The Ultimate Canon Star Trek Website."
That should be reserved for another topic...My bad...
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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squiggy
Stooge Two
Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Posts: 3007
Location: Messing with the fabric of Video Game realities. I'll summon Shiva on you! I SWEAR!
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| Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:45 am |
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| Voyager2004 wrote: | I am not arguing that it is not canon...I'm just arguing the point that someone said it is "The Ultimate Canon Star Trek Website."
That should be reserved for another topic...My bad... |
It is - because it has no real opposition.
As for the glass, I do have to wonder, in some of the fancier settings, when the glasses broke((I think there were a couple of tng episdoes, and maybe a voyager one)) a really interesting question is if somebody had a piece of glass stuck in thier hand, and they left the holodeck...
what would happen? would it be replicated glass or just dissapear((which would probably then require a trip to sickbay and a janitorial call))...
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Shawn Cordell
Lieutenant
Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 135
Location: Starfleet Headquarters
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| Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:36 am |
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| squiggy wrote: | | Voyager2004 wrote: | I am not arguing that it is not canon...I'm just arguing the point that someone said it is "The Ultimate Canon Star Trek Website."
That should be reserved for another topic...My bad... |
It is - because it has no real opposition.
As for the glass, I do have to wonder, in some of the fancier settings, when the glasses broke((I think there were a couple of tng episodes, and maybe a voyager one)) a really interesting question is if somebody had a piece of glass stuck in their hand, and they left the holodeck...
what would happen? would it be replicated glass or just disappear((which would probably then require a trip to sickbay and a janitorial call))... |
The Holodeck safety protocols would have to be off in said incident. And if that happens, then I s'pose it all becomes a little too real. But that's a real good question. Alas, I can come up with no real answer to your question, other than speculation about whether he would have a piece of glass in his hand or the glass would disappear as soon as he left the holodeck to go to the sickbay.
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