Nuclear Showdown with North Korea Worsens

[Republican_Man]

Let's all be sure to give a big hand to Bill Clinton for this story, my friends! After all, it was his foolishness that brought us into this situation in the first place. You'd think he would've learned from Reagan's "trust but verify" slogan

[CJ Cregg]

Iran, It could destabilise the whole Middle East.

North Korea doesn't really do anything. It can only attack the US. and if wouldn't do that because it knows what would happen.

Where as a Nuclear Iran threatens the whole of the middle east, Israel, Europe.

[Republican_Man]

North Korea on its own poses more of a threat, I think, but when you put it into the whole perspective, Iran, as you said, is the biggest threat because of their ties to terrorism, potential to destabilize the entire Middle East, etc.

[Puck]

I think if you wait until Kim Jong-il dies, North Korea is going to collapse and pose absolutely no threat to us. I also think the same thing about Cuba. While they are a threat, I don't feel that they are too bad. Iran on the other hand goes around making jokes about the holocaust, and threatening to build nukes. At the same time, they have some vague support from countries like Russia, and also seem to have a fairly more stable system (not to mention the ability to attack Israel and destabilize the entire region). Idk, just my opinion.

[Republican_Man]

The situation continues to deterriorate...

[Arellia]

I'm really undecided on "who's worse." Really, both situations are pretty unhappy. It's that right now, with North Korea ready to test a missile, it's pretty disturbing. Makes you wish we had more anti-missile technology than we suppposedly already do. I would tend to agree with Kevin here, though. If Kim Jong were out of the picture Korea would come down on itself. (And with all our expertise, why can't we... surgically remove him from the picture? Eh.) Not cool all over.

[Lord Borg]

It could be hard to say, but if they are ready to test missiles, this could be bad,

Exalya? Interesting point about the "surgical" removeal. (Then again, how many people in other countries would have that thought with Bush?)

[Republican_Man]

Hannity was just talking on his radio show about the missile systems on the West Coast. The Pentagon has apparently, over the last couple years, really started to step up on making anti-missile technology in fashions reminicent of Reagan's Strategic Defense Initiative. It is especially with this news coming out of North Korea that the Pentagon is starting to boost up their efforts. They already have systems in Alaska, for instance, and they're expanding it even further as we speak.

[Republican_Man]

More news on this coming from the US government. Namely, Condoleeza Rice.

[Founder]

[Republican_Man]

But North Korea is already set apart a great deal from the US and is impoverished enough. The only thing that would affect them is China, which has the power to tell North Korea "No." But if you put China off the picture, what does North Korea have to lose? Nothing.

[Founder]

Um...what does it have to lose? Everything. China would never allow it to attack the US. Also, if it did that, the western nations would immediatly rally to our aid. It has everything to lose. Like it's existance.

[Republican_Man]

I know about China, which is why I said that without China it might take action.
Sure, I guess it has to lose its existence, but with that crazed madman they have for a dictator, I think they'd be willing to screw existence. Or, at least, who knows what they might do? But meh. It's a threat, nonetheless.

[Founder]

I know and my point about China was that economically they would destabilize if we were attacked or alienated from them.

As for Kim Jong Il being crazy. He might be, but even madman are patriotic. I doubt he would do something that would push for the annihlation of his people.

[Republican_Man]

Well, I don't think he's insane, but rather consumed with so much evil that he might be willing to do the worst of things.
As to him having concern about his people, how so? I don't see how that's the case, judging from the HORRIBLE conditions his people are in. You think Cuba's bad? Take a look at North Korea. Horrible country, simply horrible. A patriotic leader would at least boost his people out of the extreme poverty--at least, as much as possible--but he doesn't even do that. I don't think he gives a damn about his people, pardon my French.

[Founder]

I'll concede that point. North Korea is in shambles and it's people live in poverty.

But I do think that he will look out for himself and he would risk his own death by doing this.

[Republican_Man]

Yeah, it's unlikely that he would do anything, but we still have to be very concerned, though. That's a given. This is a stressful situation.

[Republican_Man]

Apologies for the second post, but Colonel David Hunt made a good point just now. He said that we really have to deal with the North Korean threat now because they are a terrorist state and, though they are not in the Middle East, their hatred of the US could drive them to sell WMDs to terrorists. What do you guys think of this thought?

And don't you think that China has something involved here as well because North Korea definitely didn't do this missle stuff without Chinese consent and wouldn't test it without Chinese consent. If they test it then that means that China most likely consented, which would mean that the situation is worse than we ever anticipated, what with China, not an ally, building up its army and all that.
It looks like, Hunt, Hannity, and this other guy are arguing, and I may agree with them, we're going to be having a showdown with North Korea this week if they fire that missile.

I don't know if we should underestimate their threat or if we're overestimating it, but the situation is definitely deteriorating and there is most definitely reason to be concerned. You never know what hatred for another group of people can make a person do.

[Founder]

[Republican_Man]

Not quite. Fox is not implying that the test is going to be on the United States. Not at all. They're only talking about the prospects of an actual launch.
And Colonel David Hunt is a highly credited and decorated military man. He stated that North Korea is a terrorist state, which in a way it is, and talked about how they might not use the weapons on the US, but that the mutual hatred of the United States by others might bring the dictator to sell the weapons to a terrorist state, which is a plausable option.
When you have an enemy of this country, it tends to have mutual "alliances" with people who also hate us, and when you have a man like Kim Jong Il in power, you can't just run it off and say, "Okay, he's in Asia, not the Middle East, and isn't harboring al Qaeda members, so let's not worry too much about him." You just can't do that.

And you must not really know much about Far East affairs. North Korea can't get by doing much without Chinese consent. Do a little research on China and North Korea and you'll see what I mean.
Yes, you have a point in stating that China stands a lot to lose by alienating China, but that doesn't change the fact that the relationship between China and North Korea is unique, to say the least. China is the reason NK hasn't gone that far yet. If you take a look at the geopolitics of that situation and the whole power of China thing you'd see what I mean. I'm a bit too pressed for time to go into detail to explain it myself, so you'll forgive me for being brief.

I mean, China's the main reason North Korea, I am convinced, as are many others, hasn't taken any further action. It's because China won't consent to it or permit it, and so North Korea hasn't gone any further.

[Founder]

[Republican_Man]

Due to time constraints (preparing to go away, DSG post, and the valedictorian topic which I want to reply to) I'll be brief, but I'll say these two things:
1. I'm not saying that China would order the test, but that China is permitting them to carry it out.
2. You never know what those communist powers have at work, what the mighty China is thinking. You do have a point in that China would be stupid to encourage this, but there might be something else at hand, what with their own military buildup and all, that is driving them to allow North Korea to do this. I don't believe they would get this far without China knowing about it and, to an extent, consenting to it (permitting it). There's more to politics/geopolitics/world affairs than meets the eye, so we have to be careful with this situation. We can't rush to judgment and just say, because it seems as though China would be hurt by such moves, that China didn't allow this to happen, because I'm convinced that they were fine with it, though I'm not so sure, basically agreeing with your argument, that they'd actually allow for an attack on the US. That would bring about a war, and they know it, and it's a war that they would like to avoid.
But perhaps--and this is only speculation, pure and simple--they really have something larger at work here, judging from their military buildup, North Korea's nuclear ambitions, etc, that we need to watch out for, especially considering China may be our Soviet Union, as many on both the left and the right (I've discussed this with both sides) believe it to be (in the future).

[Founder]

A step in the right direction...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060621/ap_on_re_as/nkorea_missile_test

According to that, the North Koreans are willing to hold off the missile launch, if Washington talks to them.

[Republican_Man]

(As I said in the WMD topic, I have a few minutes of online time...)
Of course they are, but will that get anywhere? Of course not. Look at Clinton's foolishness. Did his "talks" get anywhere? Not at all. These talks may hold off the tests, but it won't do any good in the longrun. I can't say that this is good news, but I can say that it's definitely doing good in the sense that it's forcing us to step up and really work on our missile defense system, showing that all the fun liberals made of Reagan's SDI was dumb, because it looks like he was predicting situations that we would be in in the future, situations which now seem ever-more real.

[Lord Borg]

Well, if talks can hold things off for us to find a solution, I say go for it.