| Author |
Message |
Fish1941
Senior Cadet
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 24
Location: Los Angeles, CA
|
 Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:36 pm The Maquis and the Federation |
|
While reading Julia Houston's review of "The Killing Game", I came across this passage about the Maquis and the Federation:
| Quote: | If, in good meta-drama style, we follow the expanding circles of relevance out from the Nazi program, we'll notice that if the French Resistance is like Harry Kim, it and he are also like the Maquis. In the former scenario, the Hirogen are like the Nazis, and in the latter, the Federation gets to take on the role of the oppressor.
The Maquis is a bad moment in Federation history, and one I'm still not satisfied is finished. Surely the matter of the injustice the Federation did there -- an injustice so great that Starfleet lost some of its people (like Chakotay himself) to it -- needs a lot of reflection. If the Federation compares its actions with the Maquis to regimes like the Nazis, it might learn some very unpleasant things about itself. |
This is one of the problems I had with the portrayal of the Maquis in TNG and especially DS9. Someone had pointed out in another thread that the whole Federation/Maquis schism had failed to be exploited in VOY. Personally, considering their situation, I really could not see how the whole schism could have lasted for so long. It had already stretched out during a period of two seasons and it only seemed natural that it had finally died, following Seska and Maj Cullah's takeover of Voyager. The crew was in a situation that called for their survival and it was inevitable that they would have more concerns than playing out the whole conflict.
But the Federation/Maquis conflict had a better opportunity or setting on DS9. And instead of viewing the matter from two different sides, DS9 merely played out the whole conflict with the show's regulars constantly reminding the viewers that the Maquis were in the wrong. Despite Eddington, none of the regulars had really bothered to questioned the Federation's actions in the whole matter.
|
|
|
Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
|
| Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:26 pm |
|
Perhaps you should actually WATCH DS9 before you complain about it. Besides Eddington, no one else showed the Fed. was in the wrong? What about Cal Hudon? What about Kira? What about Ro Laren(TNG)? What about Thomas Riker? They showed constantly and constantly that the Federation was SOMEWHAT in the wrong. The Maquis were in the wrong as well, as were the Cardassians.
VOY FAILED miserably with this because it was stupid for the Maquis to suddenly give up all of their beliefs and suddenly join the Federation. Funny enough, you mention Nazis. If we compare the Fed. to the Nazis in this case, then why the hell would the Maquis join with them? Thats like Jews being stuck in a submarine with Nazis and after about a year or two, literally JOINING the Nazi military. Not plausible and ridiculous.
|
|
|
La Forge
Bajoran Colonel
Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 2125
Location: Babylon 5
|
| Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:30 pm |
|
Seriously, Fish. Do you hate Deep Space Nine or something?
DS9 wasn't ABOUT the Maquis. Sure, DS9 used the Maquis from time to time, but, DS9's main plot was about the DOMINION and Bajor and whatnot...not the Maquis.
VOY should have and COULD have used the Maquis...better, I s'pose. The show could have been great. But, no. They decided to have the Maquis fall in line and obey the Federation crew and JOIN them, without little resistance, just because Chakotay become's friends with the Captain and says, join the Fed.
Yep...
DS9 all the way!
|
|
|
teya
Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 423
|
| Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:10 pm |
|
| La Forge wrote: | They decided to have the Maquis fall in line and obey the Federation crew and JOIN them, without little resistance, just because Chakotay become's friends with the Captain and says, join the Fed.
|
This is one of my biggest problems with Voyager, and the biggest sticking point against J/C. Chakotay resigned his commission out of principle after his people were left defenseless.
And never once did Janeway say she understood, that he had a point, that the Federation treated the colonists badly.
Picard, at least, acknowleged that.
-------signature-------
Resume your disorder.
|
|
|
Lynx
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 277
Location: The Lynx Empire
|
| Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:14 pm |
|
First of all, the situation betwen the Maquis and the Federation as such can not be compared with the situation between the Jews and the Nazis. It could be more compared with the situation between the Western Allies (GBR, France, US) and the Polish resistance movement during WWII when the Polish resistance movement realized that the Western Allies had sold their nation to the Soviet Union while all of them were fighting the Nazis. The result was that Poland became occupied and surpressed by the Soviet Commies after the Nazis had been thrown out of Poland.
The Maquis and the Federation weren't deadly enemies. The Maquis felt betrayed by the Federation because they felt that the Federation was crawling for the Cardassians and had sold out their colonies near the borders to the Cardassians. By creating a warlike situation, the Maquis hoped that the Federation would be forced to back them against the Cardassians.
Most of the Maquis were Federation citizens or from worlds allied or close to the Federation, such as bajor. Therefore the scenario in Voyager is not unrealistic. Both ships were stuck in the Delta Quadrant and both crews realized that they had to cooperate to get home because getting home was not easy, to say the least.
The only problem, as I see it, was that the merger of the crew went too easy in some cases. There should have taken a longer time to integrate the both crews.
Besides that, I didn't really like that so many of the Maquis were portrayed as traitors or criminals, such as Suder, Seska, Jonas or unreliable, such as Hogan and Dalby. Most of them had joined the Maquis to protect their homeworlds, they were not criminals on the run or something like that. Besides that, there must have been some unreliable persons among Starfleet as well. In the situation Voyager was in, some Starfleet guy could have flipped out as well.
Last edited by Lynx on Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
Talking Rain
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 265
Location: Canada
|
| Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:14 pm |
|
Why is everyone bringing up the bad side of Voy. I mean sure Voy had it bad points but did the other Star Trek shows. I'm not trying to be cruel to any body here it's just my oppinion.
|
|
|
teya
Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 423
|
| Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:53 pm |
|
| Lynx wrote: | | Besides that, I didn't really like that so many of the Maquis were portrayed as traitors or criminals, such as Suder, Seska, Jonas or unreliable, such as Hogan and Dalby. Most of them had joined the Maquis to protect their homeworlds, they were not criminals on the run or something like that. Besides that, there must have been some unreliable persons among Starfleet as well. In the situation Voyager was in, some Starfleet guy could have flipped out as well. |
Great post, Lynx. I completely agree. And Poland is a great analogy.
-------signature-------
Resume your disorder.
|
|
|
Sonic74205
Rear Admiral
Joined: 01 Feb 2004
Posts: 4081
Location: England
|
| Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:49 pm |
|
I quite liked the portrayal of the Marquis in TNG & DS9. And in the VERY few epiosodes the Marquis were used, it was quite good. I agree that Voyager didnt touch on the Marquis arc as much as it could have.
Also i would like to say i love the idea of the Marquis. I'm actually currently writing a story about the Marquis in my spare time. They were protecting there homes and simply trying to survive when the federation signed away their homes to the Cardassians. In the end they were going to declare themselves an independant nation because that was what they had become by just trying to survive.
I definatly do not compare the Marquis or the federation to the Nazis
-------signature-------
<a href="<img>http://sonic.11.forumer.com</a>
|
|
|
Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
|
| Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:30 pm |
|
| Lynx wrote: | First of all, the situation betwen the Maquis and the Federation as such can not be compared with the situation between the Jews and the Nazis. It could be more compared with the situation between the Western Allies (GBR, France, US) and the Polish resistance movement during WWII when the Polish resistance movement realized that the Western Allies had sold their nation to the Soviet Union while all of them were fighting the Nazis. The result was that Poland became occupied and surpressed by the Soviet Commies after the Nazis had been thrown out of Poland.
The Maquis and the Federation weren't deadly enemies. The Maquis felt betrayed by the Federation because they felt that the Federation was crawling for the Cardassians and had sold out their colonies near the borders to the Cardassians. By creating a warlike situation, the Maquis hoped that the Federation would be forced to back them against the Cardassians.
Most of the Maquis were Federation citizens or from worlds allied or close to the Federation, such as bajor. Therefore the scenario in Voyager is not unrealistic. Both ships were stuck in the Delta Quadrant and both crews realized that they had to cooperate to get home because getting home was not easy, to say the least.
The only problem, as I see it, was that the merger of the crew went too easy in some cases. There should have taken a longer time to integrate the both crews.
Besides that, I didn't really like that so many of the Maquis were portrayed as traitors or criminals, such as Suder, Seska, Jonas or unreliable, such as Hogan and Dalby. Most of them had joined the Maquis to protect their homeworlds, they were not criminals on the run or something like that. Besides that, there must have been some unreliable persons among Starfleet as well. In the situation Voyager was in, some Starfleet guy could have flipped out as well. |
As for the first part, you would be correct that Poland is a better analogy. The fact of the matter is, it was still ridiculous that the Maquis would integrate so easily. Unless, the Maquis onboard VOY just had weak beliefs and bent to any side the wind was blowing.
I know the story of the Maquis. DS9 was the show that pretty much gave them more story. A lot more than TNG or VOY. VOY should have beat out DS9, but they became Starfleet crew members so fast, that there was barely any Maquis.
I don't understand why you don't like how the Maquis were portrayed as criminals. The examples you listed had very little to do with the Maquis. It was more of the character rather than organization in those cases. Seska wasn't even a Maquis! She was Cardassian! What kind of example is that? Suder was simply pyshcotic. Not because he was Maquis. Even when he was a member they commented on how efficient he was when he killed people. He wasn't emphatic like other Betazoids. He obviously had mental issues. Again, it wasn't because he was Maquis or anything. Jonas was the only good Maquis on that damn ship. More of the Maquis should have caused trouble, instead of being good little Starfleet zealots. If I wanted to see that, then I'd have watched TNG. At least they have interesting characters. Jonas questioned Janeway's policies when his friend was killed. FINALLY! Someone with a brain on that ship. Someone who saw that Janeway was psychotic. Most Maquis would do anything to sabotage the ship. Well....REAL ones would. Hogan? That one doesn't even make sense. What did he do that was so bad or incompetent? Dalby again was a good example of a Maquis. He HATED Starfleet regulations. Most of the Maquis should have.
|
|
|
teya
Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 423
|
| Thu Apr 20, 2006 9:54 pm |
|
| Founder wrote: | | I don't understand why you don't like how the Maquis were portrayed as criminals. The examples you listed had very little to do with the Maquis. It was more of the character rather than organization in those cases. |
Good point. It's also that--as was said on a few occasions--radical organizations, particularly military, tend to attract unsavory characters along with those who were there because they believe in the cause.
The problem is separating the cause and it's legitimacy from the people fighting for it. We like to think that the folks fighting for things we believe in are good guys, but it's not always the case. Nasty things are done in the name of good causes.
But this is another reason why they shouldn't have assimilated to Starfleet so quickly. It's a shame they didn't have the guts to follow-through with the conflict, because I think it weakens both Janeway and Chakotay. He capitulates immediately, so does his crew, and all she has to do is order it.
One of the big complaints among Trek fans who rank Voyager low is that Janeway didn't earn her crew's loyalty--she just demanded it and it was given. TPTB were so afraid of this woman captain, of making her look weak, that they didn't give her the chance to earn the Maquis loyalty, she didn't have to work for it. A shame, because more conflict with the Maquis would have given her the opportunity to do just that, and I bet Kate would have loved going head-to-head as a warrior and politician with this renegade crew she got stuck with.
-------signature-------
Resume your disorder.
|
|
|
Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
|
| Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:09 pm |
|
Agreed completely teya. VOY simply took no risks when it came to the Maquis. They became part of the crew so fast. I bet if anyone hasn't seen Season I or II, they wouldn't even know those officers were Maquis.
|
|
|
teya
Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 423
|
| Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:49 pm |
|
Huge disappointment for me. I'd been looking forward to the Maquis on Voyager, and especially that Indian renegade captain. Woo hoo! An Indian warrior in space!
Then he capitulated to the captain right off, they made him come from Tribe Hollywood, and turned him into a girly man making bathtubs for Janeway. Yech. I gave up on Voyager after "Resolutions." Didn't go back to it until Seven of Nine showed up.
-------signature-------
Resume your disorder.
|
|
|
Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
|
| Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:50 pm |
|
Thats why most non VOY zealots agree that Seven of Nine saved VOY.
|
|
|
La Forge
Bajoran Colonel
Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 2125
Location: Babylon 5
|
| Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:55 pm |
|
Hear, hear.
Seven of Nine saved the show...
|
|
|
Talking Rain
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 265
Location: Canada
|
| Fri Apr 21, 2006 6:17 am |
|
Does any one else believe that Seven of Nine saved the show?
|
|
|
Ziona
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Aug 2001
Posts: 12821
Location: Michigan... for now
|
| Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:25 am |
|
... Nope.
Yes, Seven was a hot chick that kept a lot of young and old men watching the show but next to that, that's about it. I don't think she did much for plot development. To me, Seven kind of seemed like a rather quick and random stab in the dark to attempt a story line that might help the ratings.
Personal opinion of course.
|
|
|
Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
|
| Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:42 am |
|
*shrugs* I dunno, seven being around lead to interesting moments, thats for sure 
|
|
|
Emili
Lieutenant
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 164
Location: England
|
| Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:44 am |
|
| Talking Rain wrote: | | Does any one else believe that Seven of Nine saved the show? |
maybe, she might have got more men watching.
I think its wrong to compare anyone to the nazis, they were the worst.
|
|
|
Lynx
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 277
Location: The Lynx Empire
|
| Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:52 am |
|
| Talking Rain wrote: | | Does any one else believe that Seven of Nine saved the show? |
No, that's an exaggetation.
Seven did attract many new viewers but the show also lost many fans during season 4-7 thanks to the over-focus on Seven and bad storytelling. The ratings did went up whe she arrived in season 4 but in seasons 5-7 they were lower than for seasons 1-3.
I can agree that Seven did create some interest but she didn't "save the show".
And the saddest thing is that a great character was sacrified for the changes in season 4.
| Founder wrote: | | I don't understand why you don't like how the Maquis were portrayed as criminals. The examples you listed had very little to do with the Maquis. It was more of the character rather than organization in those cases. Seska wasn't even a Maquis! She was Cardassian! What kind of example is that? Suder was simply pyshcotic. Not because he was Maquis. Even when he was a member they commented on how efficient he was when he killed people. He wasn't emphatic like other Betazoids. He obviously had mental issues. Again, it wasn't because he was Maquis or anything. Jonas was the only good Maquis on that damn ship. More of the Maquis should have caused trouble, instead of being good little Starfleet zealots. If I wanted to see that, then I'd have watched TNG. At least they have interesting characters. Jonas questioned Janeway's policies when his friend was killed. FINALLY! Someone with a brain on that ship. Someone who saw that Janeway was psychotic. Most Maquis would do anything to sabotage the ship. Well....REAL ones would. Hogan? That one doesn't even make sense. What did he do that was so bad or incompetent? Dalby again was a good example of a Maquis. He HATED Starfleet regulations. Most of the Maquis should have. |
What I was reacting against here was that every bad guy who turned up on the ship was an ex-Maquis. I mean, Suder could have been Starfleet as well.
I don't think most Maquis would have done everything to sabotage the ship because such an act would have stranded that person for good in the Delta Quadrant and I guess that all of them, even the most stubborn Maquis wanted to come home, at least for the opportunity to continue the fight against the Cardassians (and maybe Starfleet too). What Seska and Jonas did looked a bit stupid, at least when it come to Jonas. As a Cardassian, Seska may have realized that her chances were small and a future in the Delta Quadrant could have been a better option.
But I agree that there should have been more tension and disobedience among the Maquis. Most of them didn't like "Starfleet rigamarole" and it should have been more visible. They did became tame too fast.
|
|
|
teya
Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 423
|
| Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:14 pm |
|
Interesting that people are still repeating the "Seven only appealed to men" as if that's gospel truth.
*looks down at chest* *stands and checks out butt*
Yep, still a woman.
Honestly I tuned back in to Voyager at the beginning of season 4 just to see the blonde babe crash and burn. Because, I fully bought into all the wailing and moaning about how unfair it was to Kate and how unfair it was to Jen and how unfair it was to Trek in general for pandering to the lowest common denominator. I had friends who were actresses in their mid-late 30s at the time, and they were losing gigs to younger, bustier babes. I was in solidarity with them.
Until I saw Jeri act. She gave that character heart and vulnerability and brains. Never before have I been so glad to have been proven wrong.
I was working in a creative writing program for at risk teen girls in my area during the 6th and 7th seasons of Voyager. One week, we were talking about heroines in books, movies and television. One of the girls mentioned Seven of Nine.
No one else was into sci-fi, and I found it curious that Ana had chosen her. So I asked her why. She said that Seven was a lot like her. She was an orphan who'd been abused by the same folks who'd killed her parents, who had had to do horrible things to survive, things that she wasn't proud of, who didn't fit in her new home, but would never give up, no matter how hard.
Ana got it. No, Seven doesn't just appeal to men. She appeals to women, too--for a whole host of different reasons.
-------signature-------
Resume your disorder.
|
|
|
Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
|
| Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:38 pm |
|
| Lynx wrote: | | Talking Rain wrote: | | Does any one else believe that Seven of Nine saved the show? |
No, that's an exaggetation.
Seven did attract many new viewers but the show also lost many fans during season 4-7 thanks to the over-focus on Seven and bad storytelling. The ratings did went up whe she arrived in season 4 but in seasons 5-7 they were lower than for seasons 1-3.
I can agree that Seven did create some interest but she didn't "save the show".
And the saddest thing is that a great character was sacrified for the changes in season 4.
| Founder wrote: | | I don't understand why you don't like how the Maquis were portrayed as criminals. The examples you listed had very little to do with the Maquis. It was more of the character rather than organization in those cases. Seska wasn't even a Maquis! She was Cardassian! What kind of example is that? Suder was simply pyshcotic. Not because he was Maquis. Even when he was a member they commented on how efficient he was when he killed people. He wasn't emphatic like other Betazoids. He obviously had mental issues. Again, it wasn't because he was Maquis or anything. Jonas was the only good Maquis on that damn ship. More of the Maquis should have caused trouble, instead of being good little Starfleet zealots. If I wanted to see that, then I'd have watched TNG. At least they have interesting characters. Jonas questioned Janeway's policies when his friend was killed. FINALLY! Someone with a brain on that ship. Someone who saw that Janeway was psychotic. Most Maquis would do anything to sabotage the ship. Well....REAL ones would. Hogan? That one doesn't even make sense. What did he do that was so bad or incompetent? Dalby again was a good example of a Maquis. He HATED Starfleet regulations. Most of the Maquis should have. |
What I was reacting against here was that every bad guy who turned up on the ship was an ex-Maquis. I mean, Suder could have been Starfleet as well.
I don't think most Maquis would have done everything to sabotage the ship because such an act would have stranded that person for good in the Delta Quadrant and I guess that all of them, even the most stubborn Maquis wanted to come home, at least for the opportunity to continue the fight against the Cardassians (and maybe Starfleet too). What Seska and Jonas did looked a bit stupid, at least when it come to Jonas. As a Cardassian, Seska may have realized that her chances were small and a future in the Delta Quadrant could have been a better option.
But I agree that there should have been more tension and disobedience among the Maquis. Most of them didn't like "Starfleet rigamarole" and it should have been more visible. They did became tame too fast. |
First of all, Seven of Nine did save the show and no, not because horny retards tuned in to watch her. She added a new dimension to the show. She was much darker and a character that was raised Borg, turned to individual was a unique idea. Much more than a 9 year lived smiling alien.
BTW? I would LOVE to see those stats you have for the viewing of the seasons. Cause I don't believe it. 
As for the Maquis, I don't understand why is it so far fetched for SOME of the Maquis to be depicted as bad guys. Again, it was based off the individual, not the organization. Chakotay, Torres, and other Maquis were good. Why don't you complain about the Starfleet officers that treated the EMH like crap cause he was a hologram? Why don't you complain about the Starfleet officers that looked down at Seven of Nine for being an ex-Borg? I think they were decently equal on the evil side. Although the Starfleet officers should have been MORE reserved and quiet. They were trained to. Maquis were civilian soldiers, so they had no discipline. Thus, they would tend to cause more trouble.
Why is it so far fetched for them to sabotage the ship? It wouldn't strand them if they commited mutiny and took the ship by force. That sounds more like a Maquis thing to do. They would try to take ship for themselves. After Janeway trapped them in there, I don't they would trust her.
teya? Well said. A lot of the anti-Seven people keep claiming that Seven of Nine is a sexual tool. She had some of the best episodes on the show. The show took a better turn and became better when she got on.
|
|
|
Talking Rain
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 265
Location: Canada
|
| Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:44 pm |
|
Founder,
You do have a point. In fact you all have a good point. But can some one tell me why all the star trek shows never lasted longer than 7 seasons?
|
|
|
Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
|
| Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:54 pm |
|
It's just the way it went, seven seasons is actually pretty good for a show. Thats almost 200 episodes really, pretty good imo
|
|
|
teya
Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 423
|
| Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:10 pm |
|
| Talking Rain wrote: | | But can some one tell me why all the star trek shows never lasted longer than 7 seasons? |
They decided to end TNG after the 7th season because the weekly series was starting to get stale, and they wanted to spin them off into the movies. After that, it just became the Trek standard.
-------signature-------
Resume your disorder.
|
|
|
Lynx
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 277
Location: The Lynx Empire
|
| Sat Apr 22, 2006 2:28 am |
|
| Founder wrote: | First of all, Seven of Nine did save the show and no, not because horny retards tuned in to watch her. She added a new dimension to the show. She was much darker and a character that was raised Borg, turned to individual was a unique idea. Much more than a 9 year lived smiling alien.
BTW? I would LOVE to see those stats you have for the viewing of the seasons. Cause I don't believe it. . |
You don't believe it because you don't want to believe it?
But here are some URL:s:
A couple of years ago I found this chart:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/Lynx677/Star_TrekVOY27157.gif
Unfortunately, I can't find the site where I once found it but I downloaded the picture to my Photobucket site. However, I'm sure that this would make some people believe that I had made this chart myself so during the recent months I have found those websites with the same information:
http://members.aol.com/arlie88/
with this chart:
http://members.aol.com/arlie88/chart1.gif
And also this site:
http://www.geos.tv/index.php/index/voy
Seven didn't save the show. That's an exaggeration. She did create some interest and attract many new viewers but she didn't save the show. Voyager managed pretty good without her.
I'm sure that Seven did attract a lot of fans who liked the character itself but she also attracted many of those who did like her for "the sex factor". You just have to look at the comments about her on some forums to see that.
I still remember the day I first entered a Star Trek Voyager forum back in 1998 and wrote a post that I thought that Kes should have remained in the series, nothing more. I was immediately insulted and ridiculed for that by a couple of fans who could easily be described as "horny retards", commenting on why they thought Seven was much better than Kes. This incident followed by similar others shortly afterwards plus my negative attitude to "the changes in season 4" turned me into the evil "Seven-trasher" I was for some years until people like teya and some other Seven fans I debated with showed me that there were ardent fans who liked the character and the actress for other reasons than sex and who gave me respect for them and their favorite.
However, the catsuit and over-focus on Seven did actually create some sour comments from non-Voyager fans and did turn Voyager into a laughing stock among some Star Trek fans. So there was obviously two sides of the coin.
Besides that, a lot of people did like "the 9 year smiling alien" too and for them the show was ruined when she "left"  during dubious circumstances which I'm not gonna comment here. There's another thread for that, as you probably have noticed.
I haven't questioned the fact that some of the Maquis to be decipted as bad guys. The problem was that the only people who were decipted as bad guys were Maquis. There must have been at least some dubious people among the Starfleet crew as well. As for the Starfleet crew who teated the hologram as crap, thanks to Kes there was a change of that. As for thse who were suspicious of a Borg getting access to all important part of the ship, I see that as a more natural reaction. The Borg weren't actually Starfleet's best buddies, you know but that attitude to Seven did change very quickly, what I remember.
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
Star Trek �, in all its various forms, are trademarks & copyrights of Paramount Pictures
This site has no official connection with Star Trek or Paramount Pictures
Site content/Site design elements owned by Morphy and is meant to only be an archive/Tribute to STV.com
|
Search
FAQ
Log in
