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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
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 Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:55 pm Documents: Gitmo Inmates Attacked Guards |
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Documents: Gitmo Inmates Attacked Guards
Friday, July 01, 2005
SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico � Military authorities have previously disclosed some incidents of guard retaliation at Guantanamo Bay (search), which resulted in mostly minor disciplinary proceedings. What emerges from 278 pages of documents obtained by The Associated Press is the degree of defiance by the terrorism suspects at Guantanamo.
The prisoners banged on their cells to protest the heat. They doused guards with whatever liquid was handy � from spit to urine. Sometimes they struck their jailers, one swinging a steel chair at a military police officer.
And the American MPs at times retaliated with force � punches, pepper spray and a splash of cleaning fluid in the face, according to the newly released documents that detail military investigations and eyewitness accounts of alleged abuse.
Some prisoners at the U.S. base in eastern Cuba have gone on the attack, as in April 2003 when a detainee got out of his cell during a search for contraband food and knocked out a guard's tooth with a punch to the mouth and bit him before he was subdued by MPs. One soldier delivered two blows to the inmate's head with a handheld radio, the documents show.
"Several guards were trying to hold down the detainee who was putting up heavy resistance," recounted a translator who saw the incident. "The detainee was covered in blood as were some of the guards."
The soldier who struck the inmate, and was dropped in rank to private first class as a result, described it as a close call. "The detainee was fighting as if he really wanted to hurt us. ... We all saved each other's lives in my opinion," he wrote.
The documents, obtained under a Freedom of Information Act (search) lawsuit filed by AP, are far from a comprehensive look at Guantanamo and do not provide full details about each incident.
Names and some other identifying details have been blacked out by military censors. Handwriting at times isn't legible and pages appear to be missing or out of sequence. In some cases, it is not possible to decipher who did what to whom. Disciplinary measures against the troops were either relatively minor or unclear in some reports.
The internal investigative reports do, however, provide a snapshot of life behind the wire at Guantanamo, depicting a tense, hostile and sometimes chaotic place.
In one of the more serious incidents described in the documents, detainees told guards that an MP threw the cleaning liquid Pine-Sol in the eyes of a prisoner in the middle of one night in January 2004. In a written statement, another soldier said he came in immediately afterward to find what smelled like cleaning liquid dripping from the cell.
"The detainee could be seen rubbing his eyes intensely and moaning in pain," he said.
Documents show that the guard, from the 661st Military Police Company (search), did not admit throwing the cleaning fluid when questioned about it that night but did say the detainee had spit on him, and may have thrown urine.
A medic on the cell block flushed the detainee's eyes with water, a witness said.
A Department of Defense investigative memo written six months later concluded the soldier had mistreated detainees twice � the second offense involved cursing at inmates � and that his superiors failed to report either episode.
Investigators recommended disciplinary action against the soldier and a probe into why the incident wasn't reported up the chain of command, but the outcome is unclear from the papers.
In a statement to investigators, one service member said he hadn't seen the Pine-Sol incident but noted that U.S. personnel have been taught to use restraint with detainees: "The training we have received here at Guantanamo Bay has always stressed ... that no matter what happens on the block do not retaliate ... it will just get you into trouble."
Still, tensions between prisoners and guards have been high since the first suspects arrived in early 2002, hooded and shackled, mostly from the battlefields of Afghanistan.
The detainees' defiance discussed in the documents ranged from mild � prisoners getting matching haircuts in a show of solidarity or refusing orders to stop practicing martial arts in the exercise yard � to hostile acts like spitting or throwing unknown liquids at the MPs. One soldier used pepper spray on prisoners because, he said in a report to superiors, he feared that the unknown liquids hurled could pose a health danger.
One soldier told military investigators he punched a detainee's face because the man spit at him and hit him as he tried to put him in restraints at the prison hospital in October 2004.
"My instincts took over after the hitting and spitting," said the soldier. Documents show authorities recommended that the punishment include reduction in rank to E-4, loss of a month's pay and extra duty for 45 days, though the outcome is unclear.
In the prison camp's early days, inmates showed their anger over the heat and the practice of leaving lights on in their cells at night by banging on the bars throughout one guard shift in September 2002, the documents say. One detainee who was believed to be leading the protest threw what an MP said smelled like water from the toilet on him. The MP tried to spray water from a hose in response, but the detainee blocked it with a mat.
The guard who tried to spray the detainee was charged with assault, given a reduction in rank to private first class, which was suspended, and reassigned to other duties at Guantanamo.
In another case, an inmate threw a partially full urine bottle at an MP in May 2002, apparently because he believed the soldier had intentionally kicked his hospital bed. When the soldier threw the urinal back, the detainee grabbed a steel chair and swung it at guards before they subdued him.
A military witness defended the MP, writing: "I believe (name deleted) to be a good and honest soldier ... and just influenced by negative elements among us." The documents don't make clear what punishment, if any, the MP got.
Military officials at Guantanamo did not respond this week to questions about relations between guards and detainees at the camp, which has held some 700 prisoners from 45 countries since it opened. There are about 540 detainees there now.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Sat Jul 02, 2005 10:23 pm |
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Tsss, no way. *cough*
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Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Sat Jul 02, 2005 10:24 pm |
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Gosh, I was just so surprised. You mean the prisoners are actually mean?!? 
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Sat Jul 02, 2005 10:33 pm |
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I knooow! I thought they were soooo innocent...
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Jul 17, 2005 10:12 pm |
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^Oooooh, yess. Sooooo innocent. They're there for no reason at all 
Yeah, right. Hey, reports show that there has been NO torture--just abuses that are hardly anything, and are RARE. But of course the media and the Liberals have to make it seem like it's EVERYONE there and is POLICY. Yeah, right. (Sean Hannity, FOX News). And they're not POWs, as the Supreme Court recently ruled. (some newspaper in Cleveland--saw it while I was walking to the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame).
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Sun Jul 17, 2005 10:46 pm |
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Bah, dont expect me to feel sorry for the prisoners. IF someone threw Urine on me i'd retailiate to.
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Dirt
Exercise Boy
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 2086
Location: a tree
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| Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:45 am |
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It's kind of a primitve opinion to think that staying in a cell for over 3 years without a trial doesn't cause tention, espcially if you get tortured during it too. 
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:16 am |
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You really don't like to read enitre posts and stuff like that, do you? And many of them were "caught in the act", so who cares how long they have to wait for trial? Not me.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:10 am |
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| Theresa wrote: | | You really don't like to read enitre posts and stuff like that, do you? And many of them were "caught in the act", so who cares how long they have to wait for trial? Not me. |
Not me, either. And so, Dirt, you are accusing American soldiers of torturing prisoners? Please, do give me some evidence of this.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:15 am |
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http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/07/13/senate.guantanao.ap/index.html
| Quote: | | Schmidt said that to get him to talk, interrogators told him his mother and sisters were whores, forced him to wear a bra, forced him to wear a thong on his head, told him he was homosexual and said that other prisoners knew it. They also forced him to dance with a male interrogator, Schmidt added, and subjected him to strip searches with no security value, threatened him with dogs, forced him to stand naked in front of women and forced him onto a leash, to act like a dog. |
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:21 am |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | ^Oooooh, yess. Sooooo innocent. They're there for no reason at all
Yeah, right. Hey, reports show that there has been NO torture--just abuses that are hardly anything, and are RARE. But of course the media and the Liberals have to make it seem like it's EVERYONE there and is POLICY. Yeah, right. (Sean Hannity, FOX News). And they're not POWs, as the Supreme Court recently ruled. (some newspaper in Cleveland--saw it while I was walking to the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame). |
As scary as it is for me to quote RM,
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
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| Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:36 am |
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"Abuses that are hardly anything" LMAO.
Strip searches for no reason, being threatend with attack dogs, and being forced to wear a leash? Hardly anything indeed.
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:39 am |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | "Abuses that are hardly anything" LMAO.
Strip searches for no reason, being threatend with attack dogs, and being forced to wear a leash? Hardly anything indeed. |
Oh, no, no, we CAN'T do ANY coroosive tactics to the terrorists! No, they must be treated with the respect they deserve! That's sarcasm, in case you couldn't tell, but althought I do NOT condone these actions, they are little compared to what they would do to us in Afganhistan, etc.
And remember: RARE. And NOT policy.
Last edited by Republican_Man on Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:39 am |
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And I sooooo wanted to emphasize the "exception, not a rule" part,
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
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Location: New York
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| Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:43 am |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | "Abuses that are hardly anything" LMAO.
Strip searches for no reason, being threatend with attack dogs, and being forced to wear a leash? Hardly anything indeed. |
Oh, no, no, we CAN'T do ANY coroosive tactics to the terrorists! No, they must be treated with the respect they deserve! That's sarcasm, in case you couldn't tell, but althought I do NOT condone these actions, they are little compared to what they would do to us in Afganhistan, etc.
And remember: RARE. And NOT policy. |
I suppose "innocent until proven guilty" only should be enforced when you want it to be?
And I don't care if its rare or not, it shouldn't be happening at all. You said you wanted proof, and there it is.
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:00 am |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | "Abuses that are hardly anything" LMAO.
Strip searches for no reason, being threatend with attack dogs, and being forced to wear a leash? Hardly anything indeed. |
Oh, no, no, we CAN'T do ANY coroosive tactics to the terrorists! No, they must be treated with the respect they deserve! That's sarcasm, in case you couldn't tell, but althought I do NOT condone these actions, they are little compared to what they would do to us in Afganhistan, etc.
And remember: RARE. And NOT policy. |
I suppose "innocent until proven guilty" only should be enforced when you want it to be?
And I don't care if its rare or not, it shouldn't be happening at all. You said you wanted proof, and there it is. |
They were caught in the God damned battle zone! They are people CAUGHT IN THE FIELD!!--they don't DESERVE a trial. They are NOT POWs, as the Supreme Court said (and they are not recognized in the Geneva Convention), and therefore do NOT deserve the same treatment as an American citizen would or the Convention requires.
And that's NOT torture. Look at what the terrorists do, or what Saddam and the Taliban and the Gulag and the North Koreans and the Vietnamese and the Nazis did--THAT'S torture. THIS is NOT torture.
And are you not aware that the people who perpetrate these acts are being punished, AND that it's really the, as Rush Limbaugh puts it, CLUB GITMO hotel there. They get FREE prayer rugs and Korans, get excersize abilities, and receive MANY other special treatments. It's flippin' Hotel Gitmo, Club Gitmo there! Look at these military troops wearing Rush's Club Gitmo shirts 
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Tue Jul 19, 2005 3:12 pm |
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Once again, you don't know for sure that they're guilty of anything. It's rather undemocratic and communistic of you to assume that they're guilty and don't deserve fair treatment. You say that Nazis tortured people - yes, they did. But as I recall, Hitler didn't allow trials for people he just assumed were guilty, anyway. Same with Stalin. Great Purge, hello?
So, lets say you were thrown in jail. And, you were threatened to be killed with attack dogs, and forced to wear a bra, you wouldn't consider that torture? I'm sure you would.
Wow, free prayer rugs and korans. How nice, here in the US, murderers have the same privlages. And they've even been convicted. But then again, innocent until proven guilty doesn't swing both ways, now does it?
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Tue Jul 19, 2005 4:00 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | And I don't care if its rare or not, it shouldn't be happening at all. You said you wanted proof, and there it is. |
Liberal propaganda doesn't count. 
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Link, the Hero of Time
Vice Admiral
Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 5581
Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Tue Jul 19, 2005 4:53 pm |
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| Founder wrote: |
Liberal propaganda doesn't count. |
I wont touch that comment.
RM, The second we start treating these prisoners differently, The second we become like the terrorists we are trying to battle.
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"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." President Thomas Jefferson
"A man's respect for law and order exists in precise relationship to the size of his paycheck." Adam Clayton Powell Jr.
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Captain Dappet
Forum Revolutionist
Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Posts: 16756
Location: On my supersonic rocket ship.
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| Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:05 pm |
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But Republican propaganda does?
| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | It's rather undemocratic and communistic of you to assume that they're guilty and don't deserve fair treatment. |
And I resent that. Myself and my partycomrades and I aren't even undemocratic, but still communist. But yes, "communist" dictatorships have done such things. Stalin, Mao, etc. And Hitler, but he wasnt even remotely Communist.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:21 pm |
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| Captain Dappet wrote: | | But Republican propaganda does? |
I like to think so.
I'm not too big on the way they are treating those prisoners. IF its true whats happening. I want proof. I'm sorry, but Liberal biased news and Terrorist who left that are trying to stir anti-American sentiment is NOT proof. I'm not saying Republican news are better. I think everyone is biased.
If it is true, whats happening over there, then I think its terrible. We're resorting to their evil tactics. But I won't cry over it. I mean...they did try and kill us...
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Link, the Hero of Time
Vice Admiral
Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 5581
Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:29 pm |
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No, Al-Qeada attacked us. When did Iraq attack us?
All media is biased, unless you go down there and see it for yourself then you wont get your proof.
Last edited by Link, the Hero of Time on Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:30 pm |
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| Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | No, Al-Qeada attacked us. When did Iraq attack us?
All media is biased, unless you go down there and see it for yourself then you wont get your proof. |
They attacked us when they sided with the Terrorists.
Yep, all media is biased.
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Link, the Hero of Time
Vice Admiral
Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 5581
Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:44 pm |
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| Founder wrote: |
They attacked us when they sided with the Terrorists. |
Would this be Before or after we invaded their country with no evidence?
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:17 pm |
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| Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | | Founder wrote: |
They attacked us when they sided with the Terrorists. |
Would this be Before or after we invaded their country with no evidence? |
Before AND after They aided and abeited the terrorists. Ring a bell, anyone?
Yes, some of these abuses are occurring. The leash, bra, and dog stuff are real, yes. And I think that they ARE wrong and ARE worthy of punishment. But these things are NOT extreme, and therefore I find it wrong that people are using this to such an extreme as to make our troops seem evil. And keep in mind, it's RARE.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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