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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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 Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:45 pm Vatican: Pope Near Death |
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| Quote: |
Pope's Health Worsens Again
Thursday, March 31, 2005
VATICAN CITY � All roads were closed to the Vatican late Thursday evening as the health of Pope John Paul II (search) took another downturn.
The leader of the Roman Catholic Church developed a high fever earlier Thursday as a result of a urinary tract infection, his spokesman said. The development came one day after the 84-year-old pontiff began receiving nutrition through a feeding tube.
Police set metal barriers to block the pathways to the Vatican as the midnight hour neared in Italy.
In Washington, D.C., Cardinal Theodore McCarrick (search), archbishop of America's capital, called a press conference and asked for prayer for the pontiff.
"Pray for the holy father, that he may recover and be able to communicate," McCarrick said. "If this is not the Lord's will, may he not suffer. He's going through a period of suffering. We worry about him."
Earlier Thursday, Italian media, Reuters news service and other outlets reported that the pope has received his "Last Rites" � the Roman Catholic sacrament reserved for the sick and dying � but a Vatican spokesman told Reuters that he couldn't confirm those reports.
Quoting Catholic "Church sources," Reuters reported it was likely the sacrament had been administered to the pope because of his rapidly failing health. The Catholic ritual involves anointing the ailing person with special oils.
Currently known as the "Sacrament of the Infirm" since it is also now done for the gravely ill, it used to be known as "Last Rites" or "Extreme Unction" because it was reserved only for the dying in the past.
The sacrament is often misunderstood as signaling imminent death. But it is performed not only for patients at the point of death, but also those facing grave illness or a serious operation � and it may be repeated.
Meanwhile, the pope was at the Vatican (search) receiving antibiotics, Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls told The Associated Press by telephone Thursday.
"The Holy Father today was struck by a high fever caused by a confirmed infection of the urinary tract," Navarro-Valls said. "The medical situation is being strictly controlled by the Vatican medical team that is taking care of him."
Earlier, the Italian news agencies Apcom and ANSA said the pope had suffered an alarming drop in blood pressure Thursday evening local time.
A urinary infection can produce fever and a drop in blood pressure, said Dr. Marc Siegel, a specialist in internal medicine at the New York University Medical Center.
The pope's risk of such an infection is heightened because he is elderly � which suggests his prostate is probably enlarged � debilitated and run down from the illness that recently sent him to the hospital, Siegel said.
Urinary infections tend to respond well to antibiotics, given either as pills or intravenously, Siegel said.
An emergency room chief at Rome's Gemelli Polyclinic hospital, where John Paul has been treated for his recent health problems, said there were no plans to admit John Paul "at the moment," the Italian news agency ANSA said.
Lights in the papal apartment above St. Peter's Square were on until about 11 p.m., generally well past the papal bedtime. The light remained on in the Apostolic Palace's nursing station on the same floor as the pope's apartment.
Police cars and other vehicles were seen going in and out of the Vatican gates as the evening wore on, and a small crowd of Italians who were following news on television began gathering at the edge of the square.
Hospitalized twice last month following two breathing crises and with a tube placed in his throat to help him breathe, John Paul has become a picture of suffering. When he appeared at his apartment window Wednesday to bless pilgrims in St. Peter's Square, he managed to utter only a rasp.
Later that day, the Vatican announced he had been fitted with a feeding tube in his nose to help boost his nutritional intake.
The use of the feeding tube illustrates a key point of Roman Catholic policy John Paul has proclaimed: It is morally necessary to give patients food and water, no matter their condition.
As Parkinson's disease (search) and other ailments have left him increasingly frail, the pope has been emphasizing that the chronically ill, "prisoners of their condition ... retain their human dignity in all its fullness."
The Vatican's attitude to the chronically ill has been apparent in its bitter condemnation of a judge's order two weeks ago to remove a feeding tube from Terri Schiavo, the severely brain-damaged American woman who died Thursday.
Vatican Cardinal Jose Saraiva Martins, reacting to Schiavo's death, denounced the removal of her feeding tube as "an attack against God."
While John Paul is fully alert, some see parallels in the two cases.
Under John Paul, Vatican teaching on the final stages of life includes a firm rejection of euthanasia, insistence on treatments that help people bear ailments with dignity and encouragement of research to enhance and prolong life.
A 1980 Vatican document makes the distinction between "proportionate" and "disproportionate" means of prolonging life. While it gives room for refusal of some forms of aggressive medical intervention for terminally ill patients, it insists that "normal care" must not be interrupted.
John Paul set down exactly what that meant in a speech last year to an international conference on treatments for patients in a so-called persistent vegetative state.
"I should like particularly to underline how the administration of water and food, even when provided by artificial means, always represents a natural means of preserving life, not a medical act. Its use, furthermore, should be considered, in principle, ordinary and proportionate, and as such morally obligatory."
John Paul's 26-year papacy has been marked by its call to value the aged and to respect the sick, subjects the pope has turned to as he battles Parkinson's disease and crippling knee and hip ailments.
The Rev. Thomas Williams, a Rome-based theologian, said there are parallels between Schiavo and John Paul, based on the church teaching that such feeding is required. "In that sense, there is a great similarity," he said.
But he pointed out that the pope has been fully conscious and running the church. Court-appointed doctors had determined that Schiavo was in a persistent vegetative state with no hope of recovery before her death. Schiavo's parents had argued that she could get better and that she would never have wanted to be cut off from food and water.
It is not clear who would be empowered to make medical decisions for an unconscious pope. The pope has no close relatives, but the Vatican has officially declined to comment whether John Paul has left written instructions.
FOX News' Greg Palkot, Catherine Donaldson-Evans and The Associated Press contributed to this report.
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Last edited by Puck on Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:49 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:16 pm |
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An infection of some sort, so sad
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:18 pm |
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Yeah, it's very sad, 
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:29 pm |
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I don't want to sound mean but from what I see I don't think this poor person will make it this year hopefully he'll go in peace.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:30 pm |
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^I agree. On both counts.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:43 am |
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| Quote: | Pope Said Conscious, in Grave Condition
By VICTOR L. SIMPSON
Associated Press Writer
VATICAN CITY (AP) -- Pope John Paul II suffered heart failure and is in "very grave" condition, the Vatican said Friday, but it said he was lucid and spent the morning celebrating Mass and receiving top aides, asking one to read him the biblical account of Christ's crucifixion and burial.
Spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls choked up with tears as he told reporters about the pope's worsening condition. He said the 84-year-old pontiff had been "informed of the gravity of his situation" and decided to remain in his apartment overlooking St. Peter's Square, where thousands of pilgrims gathered to pray for him.
John Paul participated in Mass and received some top aides Friday morning, Navarro-Valls said.
"The pope is still lucid, fully conscious and extraordinarily serene," Navarro-Valls said. He said the pope had unstable blood pressure and remained in "very grave" condition.
The critically ill pope appointed a large number of bishops and other church officials, the Holy See said in an afternoon statement that gave no new information about his condition.
Among the top church officials who gathered at his bedside was Archbishop Paolo Sardi, the Vatican vice chamberlain who runs the Holy See between the death of a pope and the election of a new one.
Thousands stood vigil on the square outside, many tearfully gazing up at his third-floor window, and millions more around the world paused to pray for him.
In Wadowice, Poland, people left school and work early and headed to church to pray for their native son.
"I want him to hold on, but it is all in God's hands now," said 64-year-old Elzbieta Galuszko at the church where the pope was baptized in Wadowice, southern Poland. "We can only pray for him so he can pull through these difficult moments."
In the Philippines, tears streamed down the face of Linda Nicol as she and her husband asked God to grant John Paul "a longer life." Muslims in France were praying for the pontiff because he was a "man of peace," said Dalil Boubakeur, president of the French Council of the Muslim Faith.
Navarro-Valls said John Paul asked aides to read him the biblical passage describing the final stage of the Way of the Cross, the path that Christ took to his crucifixion. In that stage, according to the Bible, Christ's body was taken down from the cross, wrapped in a linen shroud and placed in his tomb.
Navarro-Valls said the pope followed attentively and made the sign of the cross.
"This is surely an image I have never seen in these 26 years," Navarro-Valls said. Choking up, he walked out of the room.
John Paul's health declined sharply Thursday when he developed a high fever brought on by the infection.
On Thursday afternoon, the pope suffered heart failure and a condition called "septic shock" during treatment for the infection, the Vatican said Friday, but it denied an Italian news report that he was in a coma.
The pope received the sacrament for the sick and dying on Thursday evening. Formerly called the last rites, the sacrament is often misunderstood as signaling imminent death. It is performed both for patients at the point of death and for those who are very sick - and it may be repeated.
The Rome daily La Repubblica reported Friday that the sacrament was administered by John Paul's closest aide, Polish Archbishop Stanislaw Dziwisz, who serves as his private secretary. Dziwisz had given the pontiff the same sacrament on Feb. 24 just before the pope underwent a tracheotomy to insert a breathing tube in his throat at the Gemelli Polyclinic, the newspaper said.
Italy's Apcom news agency reported Friday morning that the pontiff had fallen into a coma, but the Vatican dismissed the report.
Among the aides John Paul received Friday were Secretary of State Cardinal Angelo Sodano, the Vatican's No. 2 official; Undersecretary of State Archbishop Leonardo Sandri; the pope's vicar for Rome, Cardinal Camillo Ruini; his doctrinal chief, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger; the Vatican foreign minister, Archbishop Giovanni Lajolo; and American Cardinal Edmund Szoka, the governor of Vatican City.
The pontiff was attended to in his apartment by the Vatican medical team, and provided with "all the appropriate therapeutic provisions and cardio-respiratory assistance," the Holy See said.
It said the pope was being helped by his personal doctor, two intensive care doctors, a cardiologist, an ear, nose and throat specialist and two nurses.
Heart failure occurs when the heart no longer has the strength to pump blood through the body, and is a sign that the body's cardiac system is failing.
Dr. Paolo Nardini, a Rome physician who is not part of the pope's team, said a heart attack affects only the heart, while heart failure signals a "breakdown of the entire system, basically uncurable."
Dr. Peter Weissberg, medical director of the British Heart Foundation, said septic shock "puts a phenomenal strain on the heart."
In a statement Friday, Weissberg said that "those already suffering from heart disease - including those with heart failure - are even more susceptible to septic shock. Infection triggers a profound loss of blood pressure, depriving organs around the body of their vital blood supply and putting an enormous strain on the heart."
Even the fittest patients need special care and medicine to survive, he said.
Ruini said he visited John Paul early Friday and found him "profoundly serene and fully lucid."
"I prayed with him for a moment which profoundly moved me. Certainly the pope has completely left himself in God's hands. I invite all Romans and Italians to intensify prayers for him in this moment," Ruini told private TG5 television.
He asked Italians to pray for John Paul, and said a special Mass for the pope would be held at 7 p.m. at the basilica of St. John Lateran in Rome. The patriarch of Venice, Cardinal Angelo Scola, also planned a Mass in St. Mark Basilica at the same time.
Hospitalized twice last month following two breathing crises, and fitted with a breathing tube and a feeding tube, John Paul has become a picture of suffering.
His 26-year papacy has been marked by its call to value the aged and to respect the sick, subjects the pope has turned to as he battles Parkinson's disease and crippling knee and hip ailments.
It is not clear who would be empowered to make medical decisions for an unconscious pope. The Vatican has officially declined to comment whether John Paul has left written instructions.
� 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. Learn more about our Privacy Policy. |
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:56 am |
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I don't want this to sound mean or cruel or anything, but he really should die. I mean, he's in his 80s, he has a horrible infection thats spread, its probably painful. And he's the pope, what he should want more than anything right now is to be with his heavenly father. May he die soon and rest in peace... (that sooo didn't sound right)
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Birdy
Socialist
Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Posts: 13502
Location: Here.
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| Fri Apr 01, 2005 10:26 am |
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^ I agree. It's very sad, but it's still a very old and sick man, that is at the point of dying. He has trouble breathing, eating.. That's a sign. I just hope he doesn't suffer too much. (did that sound a little right?  )
-------signature-------
Nosce te ipsum
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Fri Apr 01, 2005 10:56 am |
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/\ sounded better than what I said.....
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lionhead
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)
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| Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:34 am |
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He already suffered a heart attack, i give him 2 days. I hope for him it wil be sooner and they let him go.
-------signature-------
Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore
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Five - seveN
Rear Admiral
Joined: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 3567
Location: Shadow Moon
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| Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:29 pm |
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| 4evajaneway wrote: | | I don't want this to sound mean or cruel or anything, but he really should die. I mean, he's in his 80s, he has a horrible infection thats spread, its probably painful. And he's the pope, what he should want more than anything right now is to be with his heavenly father. May he die soon and rest in peace... (that sooo didn't sound right) |
You're right, he won't make it much longer. In stead of letting him live 2 weeks extra in agonizing pain, I think they should just let him go in peace. Not that I want him to die or anything, but...
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:39 pm |
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| Quote: |
Vatican: Pope Worsens, Still Clinging to Life
Friday, April 01, 2005
VATICAN CITY � Pope John Paul II (search) was in extremely grave condition and near the end on Friday, after apparently losing consciousness just after sunset.
As the clock inched toward midnight, the famed St. Peter's Square in Rome's Vatican City (search), where the pope lives and works, was full of supporters who stood to pay their respects in the glow of camera lights and candlelight. Some sang hymns steadily throughout the night.
John Paul himself was in his papal apartment, where the lights remained on, with attendants at his side. He had declined to return to the hospital.
St. Peter's square was staying open throughout the night so that people could come and go.
In Kuria Square in Krakow, Poland, other supporters gathered outside a yellow house where the pope lived for a vigil Mass, and they paid tribute in his birth town of Wadowice. And in the United States, churches across the country held their own Masses for Pope John Paul II.
Earlier, a large Mass was held for him by the Vatican in a nearby basilica, along with others around the world, after news spread of the pontiff's worsening health. He received the Roman Catholic sacrament administered to the very ill and dying � called "Last Rites" in the past � on Thursday.
Also Friday evening, Italian media backed away from reports that the pope had died.
Some Italian wire and television sources reported just before 9 p.m. Rome time that the pontiff's heart and brain activity had stopped and a monitor on a machine had displayed a flatline, but they reversed that proclamation after Vatican sources said it wasn't true and there was no such machine in the pope's apartment.
Earlier Friday, the pope lost consciousness, his breathing was shallow and his kidneys were also apparently failing. He slipped in and out of a coma overnight Thursday, according to Italian media reports.
The Vatican issued an official statement addressing some of the evening's turn of events.
"The general condition and cardio respiratory condition of the Holy Father have further worsened," said the statement, issued just after 7 p.m. (noon EST) Friday. The Vatican also said the pope's breathing had become shallow.
As the medical developments unfolded, the pope's followers attended a large Mass for him at the church of Santa Giovanni in Laterano in Rome, led by Cardinal Camillo Ruini (search), the pope's vicar, who is charged with making the formal announcement of the pope's death when it occurs.
"Give him the strength he needs at this moment in his life ... Amen," prayed Ruini.
The Vatican reported that the "Holy Father, with visual participation, is joining in the prayers of those assisting him." The pope declined to be hospitalized again.
Meanwhile, people continued to stream in to join the Mass and pay their respects to their pope.
"The pope's faith is so strong and full and the experience of God so intensively lived that he, in these hours of sufferance ... already sees and already touches Christ," Ruini told hundreds of faithful in Rome.
Muslims in France were praying for the pontiff because he was a "man of peace," said Dalil Boubakeur, president of the French Council of the Muslim Faith. And in New York, Rabbi James Rudin told FOX News that the Jewish community would remember this pope with fondness because of his longstanding fight against anti-Semitism.
"He constantly denounced anti-Semitism," said Rudin, religious advisor at the Center for Catholic-Jewish Studies. "He was the first pope who said Jews are our elder brothers in faith."
Rudin called John Paul's efforts to unify the Catholic and Jewish communities "historic" and spoke of the pope's own personal experience with anti-Semitism during the Holocaust in his hometown in Poland.
Washington, D.C.'s Cardinal Theodore McCarrick (search) seemed in good spirits as he made comments to reporters Friday afternoon, saying he planned to travel to Rome on Sunday.
"We're delighted at the outpouring of interest and concern in the Holy Father," he said.
Asked to comment on the future of the Catholic church in the United States, McCarrick described the recent turmoils as "a purification, but purifications are good."
"It's a chance for us to become more humble," he added.
The White House said President Bush and his wife were praying for the pope and that the world's concern was "a testimony to his greatness."
"The Pope is an inspiration to millions of Americans. He is an inspiration to people all over the world. And he has provided great moral leadership," said White House press secretary Scott McClellan.
By afternoon on Friday, a steady stream of pilgrims jammed the Via della Conciliazione, the main avenue leading to St. Peter's. Some carried candles, while others held rosaries. Some looked through binoculars or camera lenses at the window of John Paul's apartment.
Police put the crowd at 30,000 during a recitation of the rosary in the square Friday night, the Italian news agency ANSA reported. The two windows of John Paul's apartment lit up an otherwise darkened Apostolic Palace.
Among at the square in the morning was Rome's chief rabbi, Riccardo Di Segni, who said he came "to pray here in the piazza as a sign of sharing in the grief of our brothers for their concerns and as a sign of warmth for this pope and for all that he has done."
Pope Wanted to Die at Home
Earlier Friday, the pope was reported to be celebrating Mass and receiving top aides, asking one to read him the biblical account of Christ's crucifixion and burial.
Spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls, at one point crying, said the pope had requested to remain in his apartment overlooking St. Peter's Square after being "informed of the gravity of his situation."
"The pope is still lucid, fully conscious and extraordinarily serene," Navarro-Valls said earlier Friday. He said the pope remained "in very serious condition" with unstable blood pressure.
Top aides he'd received � in addition to Ruini � included the Vatican's No. 2, Secretary of State Cardinal Angelo Sodano (search); undersecretary of state Archbishop Leonardo Sandri; his doctrinal chief, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (search); the Vatican foreign minister, Archbishop Giovanni Lajolo; American Cardinal Edmund Szoka (search), the governor of Vatican City; and Archbishop Paolo Sardi, the Vatican vice chamberlain.
The chamberlain, or camerlengo, runs the Holy See between the death of a pope and the election of a new one.
The latest downturn in the pontiff's health developed after he contracted a very high fever brought on by a urinary tract infection and then experienced heart problems on Thursday.
The pope's blood pressure was plummeting on Friday, as a result of septic shock (search). While low blood pressure is quite serious, it is not irreversible.
The pope was being helped by his personal doctor, two intensive care doctors, a cardiologist, an ear, nose and throat specialist and two nurses.
Dr. Peter Weissberg, medical director of the British Heart Foundation (search), said septic shock "puts a phenomenal strain on the heart." He said between 80 percent and 90 percent of patients in this condition die within a few days.
The "Last Rites" ritual administered Thursday to the pope is the Roman Catholic sacrament reserved for both the gravely sick and the dying and involves anointing the ailing person with special oils.
Currently known as the "Sacrament of the Infirm" since it is also now done for the gravely ill, it used to be known as "Last Rites" or "Extreme Unction" because it was reserved only for the dying in the past.
The sacrament is often misunderstood as signaling imminent death. But it is performed not only for patients at the point of death, but also those facing grave illness or a serious operation � and it may be repeated.
The Rome daily La Repubblica reported Friday that the sacrament was administered by John Paul's closest aide, Polish Archbishop Stanislaw Dziwisz, who serves as his private secretary. Dziwisz had given the pontiff the same sacrament on Feb. 24 just before the pope underwent a tracheotomy to insert a tube in his throat at Gemelli Polyclinic, the newspaper said.
According to its account, John Paul had attended Mass Thursday morning in his private chapel, then did paperwork from an armchair. Abruptly, at 6:45 p.m., John Paul turned ghostly pale and his blood pressure plummeted, the newspaper said.
Around the world, people of different faiths joined in prayer for John Paul.
In Wadowice, Poland, people left school and work early and headed to church to pray for their native son.
"I want him to hold on, but it is all in God's hands now," said 64-year-old Elzbieta Galuszko at the church where the pope was baptized. "We can only pray for him so he can pull through these difficult moments."
In the Philippines, tears streamed down the face of Linda Nicol as she and her husband asked God to grant John Paul "a longer life."
At the Church of the Assumption in Lagos, sub-Saharan Africa's most populous city of over 13 million, about 200 Nigerians in Western clothes and bright traditional African robes sat on wooden benches, offering prayers for the pope at a midday Mass.
"Catholics, fellow Christians ... will be praying for him at this time as he comes toward the end of his extraordinary and wonderful life," said Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor (search), the archbishop of Westminster and one of the most senior Catholic clerics in Britain.
Hospitalized twice last month following two breathing crises and with a tube placed in his throat to help him breathe, John Paul has become a picture of suffering. When he appeared at his apartment window Wednesday to bless pilgrims in St. Peter's Square, he managed to utter only a rasp.
Later that day, the Vatican announced he had been fitted with a feeding tube in his nose to help boost his nutritional intake.
The use of the feeding tube illustrates a key point of Roman Catholic policy John Paul has proclaimed: It is morally necessary to give patients food and water, no matter their condition.
As Parkinson's disease (search) and other ailments have left him increasingly frail, the pope has been emphasizing that the chronically ill, "prisoners of their condition ... retain their human dignity in all its fullness."
The Vatican's attitude to the chronically ill has been apparent in its bitter condemnation of a judge's order two weeks ago to remove a feeding tube from Terri Schiavo (search), the severely brain-damaged American woman who died Thursday.
John Paul's 26-year papacy has been marked by its call to value the aged and to respect the sick, subjects the pope has turned to as he battles Parkinson's disease and crippling knee and hip ailments.
It is not clear who would be empowered to make medical decisions for an unconscious pope. The pope has no close relatives, but the Vatican has officially declined to comment whether John Paul has left written instructions.
"He will be sorely missed because [of] his teaching and his charisma ... and his example of leadership," Rudin said.
FOX News' Greg Palkot, Catherine Donaldson-Evans and The Associated Press contributed to this report.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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Micteth-Son of Udas
Klingon Warrior
Joined: 20 Jul 2002
Posts: 3202
Location: rite behind you!
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| Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:09 am |
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am not a chatlic, and i dont like the way the roman chatlics hold there mases I use to be a RC but i know pordly call my self a member of my local full gosphal christian curch.
but i know what its like to be a RC and i have ALOT of respect for the higher ups on the RC church. My prays do go out to the Pope and i do hope he goes peacfully and with out pain. It will be a lose for the hole world. now i dont mean to sound to cruel but i say this:
LET THE POPE WATCH BEGIN
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:16 pm |
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he has lived a full life, he should rest in peace
-------signature-------
At Least In Vietnam, Bush Had An Exit Strategy
It was Bush, not Clinton, who ignored the warning signs for 9/11.
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Captain Patrick
Commodore
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 2421
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| Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:22 pm |
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The pope had a good long run, now he gets to go met god.
(not trying to be funny)
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Ziona
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Aug 2001
Posts: 12821
Location: Michigan... for now
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| Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:11 pm |
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God Bless the Pope. He's at peace now.
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Jeremy
J's Guy
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