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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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 Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:49 pm Minimum Wage |
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| Quote: | WASHINGTON � The Senate is gearing up for a vote on whether to raise the minimum wage (search) for the first time in eight years as Democrats and Republicans offer competing proposals they want to add to bankruptcy (search) legislation.
Looking ahead to the expected votes Monday evening, the Democratic plan would increase the current $5.15 hourly minimum by more than $2. The GOP proposal couples a more modest raise with a change to the 40-hour work week.
The plan from Sen. Rick Santorum (search), R-Pa., also includes tax and regulatory breaks for small businesses. His amendment would lift the minimum wage by $1.10 over 18 months, in two steps of 55 cents.
The rival proposal from Sen. Edward Kennedy (search), D-Mass., would boost the wage to $7.25 in three increments over 26 months.
The bankruptcy bill (search), long a priority for Republicans, is intended to make it more difficult for people to eliminate personal debts by declaring bankruptcy.
The minimum wage amendments will need 60 votes to survive; it is not clear if either one has that support.
A minimum wage increase faces a tougher road in the more conservative House. House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, and the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, Rep. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., said late last week that the House was ready to quickly pass the Senate's bankruptcy bill under the condition that the Senate reject any further substantive amendments.
DeLay also had said that the House had no plans to vote this year on a minimum wage increase, which business groups claim would drive up costs and force small businesses to lay off workers.
Santorum's proposal contains an idea that Republicans have advocated, without success, for years: "flex-time," which gives employees the option of shifting their work hours over a two-week period. Supporters say this would allow workers to adjust their schedules to meet family needs.
Kennedy said this would end the 40-hour work week by denying workers overtime pay for up to 10 hours every two weeks.
Kennedy also said restaurant workers would be harmed because Santorum's proposal allows tips to be credited for purposes of complying with any future minimum wage increases in states where tips are not now credited. Santorum said his plan would not reduce cash wages in any way.
The GOP plan says small business enterprises with less than $1 million in receipts would be exempt from the federal Fair Labor Standards Act, which sets minimum wage, overtime and record keeping standards. The current ceiling is $500,000.
The proposal includes more than $4 billion in small business tax breaks, headed by a 15-year recovery period for certain restaurants, at a cost of $3.4 billion. The tax breaks are offset by such measures as tightening tax requirements on companies that move their companies overseas to avoid U.S. taxes and increasing penalties on tax fraud and underpayment.
Santorum's spokeswoman said the senator is introducing his amendment in response to Kennedy's. The Pennsylvania Republican recognizes that it has been 7 1/2 years since the last raise but also wants to ease regulatory burdens on small businesses, the aide said.
Kennedy, in a statement, said the GOP plan would help only 1.8 million people, compared with 7.3 under his.
He told fellow senators that under the last minimum wage raise, voted by Congress in 1996 and reaching its current level in 1997, minimum wage workers earn $10,700 a year, $5,000 below the poverty line for a family of three.
During the same eight-year period, members of Congress have raised their own salaries seven times, by a total of $28,500, he said. |
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,149513,00.html
| Quote: | CAPITOL HILL � Fact One: For the last nine years, the minimum wage (search) has been set at $5.15 an hour. That's $206 a week or a little more than $10,000 a year for those who put in a 40-hour work week � mostly those in service-industry jobs.
Fact Two: During those same nine years, members of Congress have seen their wages grow by $28,500. House and Senate members are now paid $162,000 annually for their public service jobs.
Those distinctive facts apparently made little difference to the Senate on Monday, which beat down two measures to raise the minimum wage. Though the two sides of the political debate agreed to consider the measures, Senate rules left lawmakers with the clear understanding that neither measure would muster enough votes to pass.
Sen. Ted Kennedy (search) sponsored the first measure, one to raise the minimum for low-income workers incrementally to $7.25 an hour over the next 26 months. The phase-in would have occurred as three 70-cent raises.
"They work as hard as any American, often even harder. But too often they're forced into bankruptcy because the minimum wage won't cover their bills and won't give their families the support they need. We can no longer turn our back on our fellow citizens, but that is exactly what is happening in the United States Senate," Kennedy, D-Mass., said during debate.
The second proposal, offered by Sen. Rick Santorum (search), would raise the minimum to $6.25 an hour over the next 18 months in two 55-cent increases. But Santorum's proposal also included modest tax breaks for small businesses and opportunities for workers to opt for more flexible schedules that opponents say allows employers to avoid overtime.
"I feel very comfortable that our proposal keeps the balance between the ability of lower-skilled employees to enter the work force at a wage in which they are compensated for the skills they bring to the job," Santorum, R-Pa., said.
Kennedy said Santorum had a long record of opposing minimum wage hikes. Santorum countered that the Democratic increase would lead to the highest percentage of workers paid the minimum wage since the late 1970s, a period marked by "hyperinflation" and double-digit interest rates.
Despite the debate, under unusual Senate rules, both sides of the aisle agreed that if neither measure received 60 votes � enough to overcome threatened filibusters � the amendments to the bankruptcy bill would be withdrawn.
That is, in fact, what happened. Kennedy's amendment went down 46-49. Santorum's measure failed 61-38. Both sides of the aisle can now claim honestly to have voted for an increase in the minimum wage, even though they knew full well neither proposal had a real chance of passing.
Democrats say they will try again, but House Republican leaders said even if a Senate measure passed, they would not consider any bill for a minimum wage increase this year. Most participants and observers say they see this as a dead issue for the foreseeable future. |
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,149691,00.html
Well...I was curious as to what everyone has to say on minnimum wage. These articles are obviously U.S.-based, but for those of you from other countries discussing the minnimum wage situation over there would be interesting, too.
For the U.S., I find it amusing and worthy of note that the poverty level is set at $8.50 an hour, and minnimum wage is more than three dollars shy of the mark.
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Not the doctor... yet
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:51 pm |
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I am worried if they raise it, it is going to cause some people at my work to get fired, because my boss is a cheap ass. As well, if they raise it, that would probably make it harder for me to find a job anywhere else. But idk.
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:52 pm |
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I don't see why. If they raise it, then things will cost more in stores, then people will have to pay more, so doesn't it just end up cancelling itself out? Maybe I'm not making any sense.
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-Wuthering Heights
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:53 pm |
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| JanewayIsHott wrote: | | I am worried if they raise it, it is going to cause some people at my work to get fired, because my boss is a cheap ass. As well, if they raise it, that would probably make it harder for me to find a job anywhere else. But idk. |
That would happen, but either way, I do NOT want the minimum wage to be raised. First off, if you raise it more, then it will have to be raised in the future. Second, it will HURT businesses, making them have to pay more, even to those that don't deserve it. And third, it's just not good. It truly would make the economy go round--and I'll be ordered to get a job soon  I will be paid minimum wage, and I don't think it should be raised, despite the fact that I want money
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:57 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | JanewayIsHott wrote: | | I am worried if they raise it, it is going to cause some people at my work to get fired, because my boss is a cheap ass. As well, if they raise it, that would probably make it harder for me to find a job anywhere else. But idk. |
That would happen, but either way, I do NOT want the minimum wage to be raised. First off, if you raise it more, then it will have to be raised in the future. Second, it will HURT businesses, making them have to pay more, even to those that don't deserve it. And third, it's just not good. It truly would make the economy go round--and I'll be ordered to get a job soon I will be paid minimum wage, and I don't think it should be raised, despite the fact that I want money |
What of single parents who work full-time on minimum wage because they can't get any other job, and can hardly (if they can, which is a miracle) pay rent? I feel for the businesses, but really...$5.15 an hour? 7 bucks an hour in California won't get you a one-bedroom apartment in most places...
--Edit-- however, considering if the cost of living cancels everything out, then it would be pointless, really. *shrugs*
Last edited by Arellia on Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:00 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:58 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | I don't see why. If they raise it, then things will cost more in stores, then people will have to pay more, so doesn't it just end up cancelling itself out? Maybe I'm not making any sense. |
Minimum wage goes up, the cost of living goes up. So yeah, you make sense 
They had this thing once where you could email Clinton a short question. I did it. "Why does the cost of living rise with minimum wage?" Never got a reply,  Did it in the allotted time, too,
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And some of us sail through our troubles
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:59 pm |
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| Exalya wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | JanewayIsHott wrote: | | I am worried if they raise it, it is going to cause some people at my work to get fired, because my boss is a cheap ass. As well, if they raise it, that would probably make it harder for me to find a job anywhere else. But idk. |
That would happen, but either way, I do NOT want the minimum wage to be raised. First off, if you raise it more, then it will have to be raised in the future. Second, it will HURT businesses, making them have to pay more, even to those that don't deserve it. And third, it's just not good. It truly would make the economy go round--and I'll be ordered to get a job soon I will be paid minimum wage, and I don't think it should be raised, despite the fact that I want money |
What of single parents who work full-time on minimum wage because they can't get any other job, and can hardly (if they can, which is a miracle) pay rent? I feel for the businesses, but really...$5.15 an hour? 7 bucks an hour in California won't get you a one-bedroom apartment in most places... |
Then they should raise it in California, not nationally. I don't think that it should be raised one bit.
But right, cost of living goes up. You're right, Theresa.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:06 pm |
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Well, I suppose so is the way of the economy...businesses suffer over regulation, and pass that on to the lowly consumer. I got the answer to my question. Yay.
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:58 pm |
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Who does minimum wage raise really even help?
Teens working in school? That's about it. Very few jobs pay minimum wage now, and most of them are tip-dependant anyways.
Minimum wage is a joke.
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Kyre
Commodore
Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 1263
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| Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:24 am |
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| LightningBoy wrote: | | Teens working in school? |
That's alot of people.
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:43 am |
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This goes straight to heart of economic theory. Communism has been shown to be a failure because it takes away personal initiative. What people call "capitalism" has been perverted into a growth-dependent system where all costs must rise (as a trend). The problem is that there are finite limits which absolutely prevent unlimited growth. We live on a single planet, with finite resources. There are a finite number of people (at any one time). There is a finite number of hours in the day. A person can only work so many of those hours.
Ultimately (and I think we are seeing the beginning of the end) "capitalism" will be shown to be a failure just as communism has. It will take longer, but the crash will be harder. If the average person can't earn enough, they lose personal initiative just like in communism. In America, "the world's richest nation", average couples are having to decide between having a career or having children, or killing themselves trying to do both. And most poeple in developed countries are not aware that many countries which were considered "third world" in the 70's and 80's now have a huge and fast-growing middle class, and they will soon face the same growth-based wall.
It's obvious to anyone we have to limit population growth, or ultimately there won't be anywhere left to stand. Just as surely, we have to develop a world economy capable of no (or very low) growth.
This leads to a paradox. If we freeze the minimum wage, all other cost increases must stop, and that would destroy the system. The system is not going to change, so even if we increase the minimum wage, it's just fuel for the fire.
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:00 pm |
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| Theresa wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | I don't see why. If they raise it, then things will cost more in stores, then people will have to pay more, so doesn't it just end up cancelling itself out? Maybe I'm not making any sense. |
Minimum wage goes up, the cost of living goes up. So yeah, you make sense
They had this thing once where you could email Clinton a short question. I did it. "Why does the cost of living rise with minimum wage?" Never got a reply, Did it in the allotted time, too, |
It's called inflation. If the minimum wage goes up, employers need to get more money to pay for the increased wage. They do this by increasing the prices of the goods that they sell. This means that although the wage is higher so are the other costs. Its what happens anyway, but things like increasing the minimum wage increase the speed of it.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:43 pm |
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Thank you, young Einstein,
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purple_kathryn
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 91
Location: Belfast
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| Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:45 pm |
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Is the majority of America on minimum wage? If the cost of living would be drastically affected by a rise in minimum wage then the majority of your employers pay very very little.
The minimum wage in the UK is around $9.35, I work for the government and on our payscales the newest entrants at the lowest grade earn the minimum wage, which they're planning to rise. You cannot live on the minimum wage. I couldn't even live on what I earn now, fortunately my parents aren't kicking me out
Kathryn
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:46 pm |
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Most jobs no longer start at minimum wage. Even Walmart.
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And some of us sail through our troubles
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borgslayer
Rear Admiral
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Posts: 2646
Location: Las Vegas
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| Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:44 pm |
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Yeah, even dishwashing jobs now pay at $11.20 an hour.
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:58 pm |
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| Kyre wrote: | | LightningBoy wrote: | | Teens working in school? |
That's alot of people. |
They don't need much more than that. School is a teens' priority, not work. My first job was at Target for $8/hour...
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Beta6
Commander
Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 475
Location: ~*City Of Angels*~
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| Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:27 pm |
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I wish we could get paid more or the cost of living would go down some. California is outragous!!! My apartment is $2680 for a small 2 bedroom. Thank god I have a roomie!!!! Not even including utilities!!!!!
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:44 pm |
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| borgslayer wrote: | | Yeah, even dishwashing jobs now pay at $11.20 an hour. |
Dang. You've gotta' be kidding. Heck, I haven't EVER heard of a waitress job more than minimum wage, only the tips make it bearable. I know quite a few adults on minimum wage or close who work their tails off to get it. And for what? To barely have enough money to make it each month. Perhaps minimum-wage jobs do not belong to the majority of Americans, but for some of them, it's all they get.
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Beta6
Commander
Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 475
Location: ~*City Of Angels*~
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| Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:02 pm |
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Yep, that is why you have to go to school and get a great job!! I make over min wage and I have 2 jobs, work at least 65 hours a week... Just to make it.
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:24 pm |
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| Exalya wrote: | | borgslayer wrote: | | Yeah, even dishwashing jobs now pay at $11.20 an hour. |
Dang. You've gotta' be kidding. Heck, I haven't EVER heard of a waitress job more than minimum wage, only the tips make it bearable. I know quite a few adults on minimum wage or close who work their tails off to get it. And for what? To barely have enough money to make it each month. Perhaps minimum-wage jobs do not belong to the majority of Americans, but for some of them, it's all they get. |
Yes, but waitressing is a tip-dependent job. More than half of their income is tips, easily. So if minimum if $5.25, all a waitress needs to do it wait about two tables an hour to be making well over $11.20/hr. Plus, tips aren't taxed.
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:31 pm |
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I am aware of that. Believe me, more than aware. Waitressing, in some areas, is hard to get a job in for precisely that reason. I was remarking surprise at a dishwasher making $11.20 an hour...never heard of anything like that--dishwashers don't exactly get top-end tipping. If my mother could get a waitress job, things would be pretty good. As is, a non-tipping minimum-wage job is all we can get, and that definitely does not pay bills alone. Hence second and third jobs. Again, this is not all Americans, but a number of them. And it is darn hard to better one's self in that kind of position.
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:32 pm |
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I don't know how it works elsewhere, but in Ontario workers in the "server" industry (waiters and waitresses for example) are paid less than minimum wage because they get tips. Similarly, students are often paid a "student wage" which can be less than the minimum wage. So our wage really isn't a minimum . . . 
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:53 pm |
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| Exalya wrote: | | borgslayer wrote: | | Yeah, even dishwashing jobs now pay at $11.20 an hour. |
Dang. You've gotta' be kidding. Heck, I haven't EVER heard of a waitress job more than minimum wage, only the tips make it bearable. I know quite a few adults on minimum wage or close who work their tails off to get it. And for what? To barely have enough money to make it each month. Perhaps minimum-wage jobs do not belong to the majority of Americans, but for some of them, it's all they get. |
While that is true, cost of living goes up, as does inflation. It would only make things worse for consumers as a whole.
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:56 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Exalya wrote: | | borgslayer wrote: | | Yeah, even dishwashing jobs now pay at $11.20 an hour. |
Dang. You've gotta' be kidding. Heck, I haven't EVER heard of a waitress job more than minimum wage, only the tips make it bearable. I know quite a few adults on minimum wage or close who work their tails off to get it. And for what? To barely have enough money to make it each month. Perhaps minimum-wage jobs do not belong to the majority of Americans, but for some of them, it's all they get. |
While that is true, cost of living goes up, as does inflation. It would only make things worse for consumers as a whole. |
I didn't say it wouldn't, neither did I say raising minimum wage was the answer. I'm not sure if there is a way to solve that sort of problem, but it does stand as a nuisance.
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