| Should UK police officers be armed? |
| Yes |
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89% |
[ 17 ] |
| No |
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10% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 19 |
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Superman
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 06 Dec 2003
Posts: 10220
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 Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:57 am Should UK Police officers carry guns? |
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Do you think UK Police officers should carry guns?
Some forces already do. Obviously, the Royal Military Police and Royal Air Force Police do. The United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority Constabulary are also trained in firearms and carry them routinely, as do the Ministry of Defence Police.
And, of course, each Force has it's own Firearms Unit.
I've thought long and hard about this issue, I think maybe it is time for UK police officers to carry guns routinely. If you'd have asked me that question twenty or more years ago, I would have said "no, they shouldn't".
But it's a different world now. A lot of criminals carry guns and, unfortunately, would not hesitate in shooting a civilian or police officer. I really think they should be routinely armed.
However, if we go down that road, then officers should be well-trained. They should be given psychological testing and the whole training procedure should be looked at. I'd be interested to know how the routine arming of police works in other countries.
It's sad that it has come to this. But with the way society has become, I think the time has come for officers to be routinely armed. But it will have to be transitional, I don't for one moment advocate giving a gun to each and every officer in the country, straightaway.
BTW, is Britain the only country in the world where regular policemen are not armed? I'd be interested to know that.
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Angeldust
The Mob Queen
Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 6498
Location: In your most wonderful, screwed up dreams. :P
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| Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:59 am |
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Yes. Law enforcement officers should have a tactical advantage over citizens, and this gives them one.
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Thu Nov 04, 2004 9:21 am |
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How do you enforce law without the means to actually ENFORCE law?
Funny how the debate in the U.K. is whether or not POLICE should have guns, whereas the debate in the U.S. is whether or not to allow CITIZENS to carry guns.
In my opinion, an armed nation is a defended nation, is a free nation.
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Five - seveN
Rear Admiral
Joined: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 3567
Location: Shadow Moon
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| Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:19 am |
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Yes, they should. I mean, when some drugs dealer starts firing at you, you're practically without defense. You'll have to wait before he usep up his ammo before you can do something. It's sad indeed that this has to happen, but it's simply necessary nowadays...
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Deciviel
Captain
Joined: 27 Sep 2002
Posts: 508
Location: Joe's Garage
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| Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:03 pm |
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They should definitely be allowed to carry guns. Without them, they are defenseless. What happens when you're up against a criminal who is armed, and yet you're not? Bad news waiting to happen IMHO.
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Kyre
Commodore
Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 1263
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| Thu Nov 04, 2004 6:30 pm |
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No.
Nothing says authority like a policeman who deals with criminals using just a baton, some handcuffs and good training. Of course there should be special firearms units, but regular police on the beat, no, I don't think they should be armed.
I genuinely do not believe Britain's gun problem is that bad. The vast, vast majority of gun deaths in the area around me are due to drug wars. Noone should be scared of any Joe Bloggs pulling out a gun and shooting them for no reason.
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Thu Nov 04, 2004 6:42 pm |
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That is pretty much true. The reason I think this was posted was because here someone was shot for carrying a shotgun, and then the policeman found out it was a table leg. It can cause problems, and for what our guncrime rate is, it's not worth it.
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Superman
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 06 Dec 2003
Posts: 10220
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| Thu Nov 04, 2004 7:50 pm |
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Replying to Angeldust:
| Quote: | | Yes. Law enforcement officers should have a tactical advantage over citizens, and this gives them one. |
Good point, but let's agree that you shouldn't carry a gun. Because, how can I put it? You are mad. 
Replying to Deciviel:
| Quote: | | They should definitely be allowed to carry guns. Without them, they are defenseless. What happens when you're up against a criminal who is armed, and yet you're not? Bad news waiting to happen IMHO. |
I just think that times dictate that officers should carry guns. About three years ago, I was in town and came across an incident. A guy was standing atop a small shop throwing objects down at people. One brick even smashed the back of a car. Police arrived but they were pretty powerless. The guy came down from the shop and continued to throw things. Police made every civilian move so I don't know what the end result was. What I do know is that there were civilians scared stiff (including one woman, afraid to leave the shop) and all the police could do was stand there. Afraid the baton and mace were powerless.
Of course, every situation is different. But maybe a warning shot could have persuaded this guy to stop.
There was also an incident in London a few years ago, actually caught on camera by a passing photographer. A cowardly mugger drove by and snatched a woman's purse. A policeman was near and he did rush over-he put his baton through the window but the driver got away. Maybe if the officer had a gun, he could have took out the tyres. Or, even better, maybe he could have took out the driver.
Replying to Jeremy:
| Quote: | | That is pretty much true. The reason I think this was posted was because here someone was shot for carrying a shotgun, and then the policeman found out it was a table leg. It can cause problems, and for what our guncrime rate is, it's not worth it. |
That was a strange judgement. I don't want to comment on the officers who shot this man because I wasn't there and don't know what they were experiencing. But it is the type of thing that does need looking into. As I said earlier, I don't think every UK officer should suddenly be given a gun. They should undergo intensive training and psychological evaluation.
On a final note, I will say this. Whenever someone is shot by one of the Firearms Units, it is spread all over the media. And, of course, it is sad for the family when someone dies. But, putting it into perspective, the Firearms Units deal with thousands of incidents a year, most of which end without a single shot being fired.
Thanks for your views, folks. I can think of one forum I was a member of where the views would have been less than articulate.
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Angeldust
The Mob Queen
Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 6498
Location: In your most wonderful, screwed up dreams. :P
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| Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:49 am |
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| Quote: | | Good point, but let's agree that you shouldn't carry a gun. Because, how can I put it? You are mad. |
An astute observation, Tooth Picker. Perhaps you will be up for the Nobel Prize for Genius this year?
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"You want to dance with the angels? Then embroider me with gold; and I will fly with the angels...and you can dance with me."
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Otter
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 12895
Location: England
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| Fri Nov 05, 2004 7:51 am |
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We already have ARV's for use in the public relm which I think works well. Perhap's guns should be also given to officers attending events where it's unclear or suspected that may be a need. Guns need to be Controled and not allowed to be used by the public.
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Angeldust
The Mob Queen
Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 6498
Location: In your most wonderful, screwed up dreams. :P
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| Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:08 pm |
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ARV's? I probably already know what that is, but can you tell me anyway?
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"You want to dance with the angels? Then embroider me with gold; and I will fly with the angels...and you can dance with me."
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Otter
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 12895
Location: England
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| Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:23 pm |
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Armed Response Vehicle.
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Yeah, We'll Stay Forever This Way..
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Angeldust
The Mob Queen
Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 6498
Location: In your most wonderful, screwed up dreams. :P
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| Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:25 pm |
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Okay. So is this vehicle armored and all that good stuff?? Another question: So NONE of the citizens of Great Britain are allowed to carry guns?
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"You want to dance with the angels? Then embroider me with gold; and I will fly with the angels...and you can dance with me."
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Otter
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 12895
Location: England
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| Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:58 pm |
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Well, everall it's a standed patrol car but having powerful weapons onboard I'm sure it would be more secure. But not like SWAT. Re: your second question, No.
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Fri Nov 05, 2004 5:47 pm |
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Actually some people are, but it's for hunting and only a few people have them. The tests you have to pass are very strict as well.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:26 pm |
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Yes. Of course they do. How else may order be obtained if push comes to shove?
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Superman
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 06 Dec 2003
Posts: 10220
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| Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:28 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Yes. Of course they do. How else may order be obtained if push comes to shove? |
I don't like guns but if I were a cop, I think I would want one. I'd hope that I'd never have to use it but I'd like to think of it as a safety net in case I came up against a guy with a dangerous weapon, about to kill a civilian (or something like that).
I think it'll happen in the UK. Eventually.
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Fri Nov 05, 2004 9:00 pm |
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I think they should its only right if the crinimals use guns shouldn't they?
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| ~Tony Montana wrote: | | You know what you need people like me people for you to snub your nose at and point at saying there is a bad man. Well guess what This bad man is leaving. Say goodnight to the BAD MAN! |
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Superman
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 06 Dec 2003
Posts: 10220
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| Sat Nov 06, 2004 8:07 am |
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| Jeff Miller wrote: | | I think they should its only right if the crinimals use guns shouldn't they? |
In my opinion, yes. It's not just guns that criminals are carrying, it's things like knives and all sorts of weapons. A truncheon may be able to disarm someone carring a knife but a gun would be the safer option when up against other guns or weapons.
I don't advocate a country where cops play cowboys and shoot at will. Warning shots should be fired, depending on the circumstances. It's a cuththroat world now, unfortunately. Measures need to be taken.
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Sat Nov 06, 2004 9:12 am |
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From some of the replies it seems like people think none of the police over here have guns. There is gun squads here, that are specialised in using guns. Also the situation with guns and so on over here isn't as bad as it's being made out to be.
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Superman
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 06 Dec 2003
Posts: 10220
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| Sat Nov 06, 2004 9:45 am |
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| Quote: | | Also the situation with guns and so on over here isn't as bad as it's being made out to be |
Well, the situation in my local area is bad. There have been an inordinate amount of shootings by criminals, and many innocents (particularly children) have been killed. Some areas are no-go areas (unofficially), hence my concern.
Jeremy, what is the situation in your area?
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superwoman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 5742
Location: Sweden
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| Sat Nov 06, 2004 5:54 pm Re: Should UK Police officers carry guns? |
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NOOOO! Of course they shouldn't! It's not like less people will get injured if they were to carry guns!  Violance raises violance! If the police were to carry more weponds then of course the criminals will do to! And we wouldn't want that to happen now would we? Just look at the US. Do the police carry guns? Do the criminals carry guns?
| Starfleet Dentist wrote: |
BTW, is Britain the only country in the world where regular policemen are not armed? I'd be interested to know that. |
I'm not totally sure, but I can't imagine that every policeman in sweden carry a gun! Not even those who guard the money transportation and such carry guns... so I can't imagin that the whole policeforce do
Guns don't kill people, people kill people... yeah right... like eddie ones said: try to go BANG and se who many will get killed...
Guns are for stupid fuks
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Kylon
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 03 Jun 2002
Posts: 292
Location: In a distant galaxy far far away...
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| Sun Nov 07, 2004 2:08 am |
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Yup, because organized crime will still have guns, so the police should too.
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Imagination is more important than knowledge.
Albert Einstein
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:02 am |
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| Starfleet Dentist wrote: | | Quote: | | Also the situation with guns and so on over here isn't as bad as it's being made out to be |
Well, the situation in my local area is bad. There have been an inordinate amount of shootings by criminals, and many innocents (particularly children) have been killed. Some areas are no-go areas (unofficially), hence my concern.
Jeremy, what is the situation in your area? |
My area is totally free from them, so I'll be the first to admit that that could affect my view slightly, but there are areas around that have them. I think it is better that we have the situation we have at the moment, with a specialised gun squad rather than having all the police armed. Maybe in some areas that have a high gun crime rate they should have a specialised police force that act instead of the normal police and can have guns. 
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Captain Dappet
Forum Revolutionist
Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Posts: 16756
Location: On my supersonic rocket ship.
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| Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:47 am |
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No, I dont think they should. As Kyre said, a baton and good training should do the trick. Of course, some policemen must carry guns.
Such as Civil Policemen. I remember hearing about an incident here in Sweden, where a civil Police was attempted to be mugged by two men, but he had a gun, so he just waved that around, and they suddenly didnt want to mug him anymore. 
And the Police should, of course, have a special Firearms Unit.
Although, on the other hand, it is a dangerous society, and the Police should be equipped for handling that, so carrying a gun, but only being allowed to use it in an emergency situation would be good.
Oh, and Superwoman; Do you remember the Police Killings in Malexander? What do you think the outcome would've been if the Police didn't carry guns at that point? Both Policemen would be dead, surely, instead of just one. At least...I think one survived...heheh, it was a long time ago.
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