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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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 Sun Sep 12, 2004 10:52 am Like rival, Bush sometimes reverses course |
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| Quote: |
Like rival, Bush sometimes reverses course
10:40 PM CDT on Thursday, September 9, 2004
By COLLEEN McCAIN NELSON / The Dallas Morning News
The mere mention of John Kerry's name is enough to get it started: the singsong chant of "flip-flop, flip-flop" that echoes through Republican rallies and campaign events across the country. The Republicans have defined the Democratic candidate as indecisive and unreliable while portraying the president as resolute and unwavering.
While this has become a campaign storyline, the reality is that President Bush has not always been a model of consistency. During the last four years, the president's positions on several issues have evolved or completely changed.
Of course, consistency for its own sake is not necessarily the hallmark of an effective leader, analysts note. And both Mr. Bush and Mr. Kerry have revised and refined their views as circumstances changed.
Examples of the president's shifting his stance include:
Homeland Security
The president initially rebuffed calls to coordinate security efforts and create a Cabinet-level department.
But as the pressure increased, Mr. Bush reversed course and supported establishing the Homeland Security Department. "We have a responsibility to protect the American people against threats from any source," Mr. Bush said.
9-11 commission
Mr. Bush opposed the formation of an independent task force to investigate the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and later asked for limitations on the panel's subpoena authority.
After calls from the victims' families intensified, he supported the creation of the 9-11 commission. "It is important that we uncover every detail and learn every lesson of Sept. 11," the president said in a prepared statement.
Citing executive privilege, Mr. Bush was adamant that National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice would not testify under oath before the commission.
But then he changed his mind, and she testified. "I've ordered this level of cooperation because I consider it necessary to gaining a complete picture of the months and years that preceded the murder of our fellow citizens on Sept. 11, 2001," the president said.
When the 9-11 commission recommended creating a national intelligence director, Mr. Bush did not immediately embrace the idea.
Now, the president is urging Congress to heed the recommendation. "We believe that there ought to be a national intelligence director who has full budgetary authority," he said this week.
Weapons of mass destruction
The president initially cited the presence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq as a primary justification for going to war. When Mr. Bush sought additional funds for the troops in Iraq, he said that Saddam Hussein had possessed and used such weapons in the past.
He continued to modify his rhetoric as time passed and no weapons were found. The president later underscored Mr. Hussein's barbarity and said the United States had toppled a "danger to the world." And when Mr. Bush addressed the country during the GOP convention last week, he briefly mentioned the Iraqi leader's history of pursuing weapons. "In Saddam Hussein, we saw a threat," Mr. Bush said.
Osama bin Laden
After the Sept. 11 attacks, Mr. Bush identified Osama bin Laden as his No. 1 priority, saying he wanted the al-Qaeda leader "dead or alive."
Over time, mentions of Mr. bin Laden became infrequent. More recently, the president has acknowledged that he does not know where Mr. bin Laden is, saying that terrorism is bigger than one person and that he's not overly concerned with the al-Qaeda leader.
Nation building
As a candidate four years ago, Mr. Bush repeatedly criticized peacekeeping efforts in the Balkans, adding that he opposed turning U.S. troops into a "nation-building corps." "Our military is meant to fight and win war; that's what it's meant to do. And when it gets overextended, morale drops," he said during the final weeks of his 2000 campaign.
Now, he faces criticism for his administration's long-term commitment to rebuilding Iraq and Afghanistan. During his speech at the Republican convention, Mr. Bush said, "Our mission in Afghanistan and Iraq is clear: We will help new leaders to train their armies, and move toward elections, and get on the path of stability and democracy as quickly as possible."
Gay marriage
Mr. Bush said during a 2000 Republican debate that he opposed gay marriage but that it was a state issue. "The states can do what they want to do," he said then.
This year, he called for a federal constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriages. "Decisive and democratic action is needed because attempts to redefine marriage in a single state or city have serious consequences throughout the country," he said in February.
Steel tariffs
In 2002, the president imposed tariffs on most imported steel. The move prompted threats of retaliatory tariffs from the European Union.
In 2003, Mr. Bush rescinded the tariffs. He said the temporary protection allowed the steel industry to adjust to a surge in foreign imports, while union leaders said the president caved in to economic terrorism.
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Online at: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/politics/national/stories/091004dnpolbushreversals.9804a.html
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I caught this in the paper a few days ago and thought it was a very interesting piece. Just thought I would post it for yall. 
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Sep 12, 2004 11:07 am |
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| Quote: | | While this has become a campaign storyline, the reality is that President Bush has not always been a model of consistency. During the last four years, the president's positions on several issues have evolved or completely changed. |
He has HARDLY EVEN CHANGED HIS MIND!!!!
| Quote: | | Of course, consistency for its own sake is not necessarily the hallmark of an effective leader, analysts note. And both Mr. Bush and Mr. Kerry have revised and refined their views as circumstances changed. |
Kerry's done it SO MANY TIMES!
| Quote: | Homeland Security
The president initially rebuffed calls to coordinate security efforts and create a Cabinet-level department.
But as the pressure increased, Mr. Bush reversed course and supported establishing the Homeland Security Department. "We have a responsibility to protect the American people against threats from any source," Mr. Bush said. |
I don't know what to say about that. I think he saw the necessity to make one NOT because of the polls, otherwise at times he would have even left Iraq during hard times. But he realized the disorganization and necessity of that, which I don't see as really bad ESPECIALLY in a time of terrorism.
| Quote: | 9-11 commission
Mr. Bush opposed the formation of an independent task force to investigate the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and later asked for limitations on the panel's subpoena authority.
After calls from the victims' families intensified, he supported the creation of the 9-11 commission. "It is important that we uncover every detail and learn every lesson of Sept. 11," the president said in a prepared statement.
Because he realized the necessity of doing it because the families needed to get down to the truth.
Citing executive privilege, Mr. Bush was adamant that National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice would not testify under oath before the commission.
He did NOT cite executive privilege! He cited the Separation of Powers. And that was fine.
But then he changed his mind, and she testified. "I've ordered this level of cooperation because I consider it necessary to gaining a complete picture of the months and years that preceded the murder of our fellow citizens on Sept. 11, 2001," the president said.
He saw the necessity of having many, many people get down to the truth--including Rice.
When the 9-11 commission recommended creating a national intelligence director, Mr. Bush did not immediately embrace the idea.
Now, the president is urging Congress to heed the recommendation. "We believe that there ought to be a national intelligence director who has full budgetary authority," he said this week. |
Well of course! For cripes sake! He said that he would LOOK INTO IT, and when he did he realized that we needed one!
| Quote: | Weapons of mass destruction
The president initially cited the presence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq as a primary justification for going to war. When Mr. Bush sought additional funds for the troops in Iraq, he said that Saddam Hussein had possessed and used such weapons in the past.
He continued to modify his rhetoric as time passed and no weapons were found. The president later underscored Mr. Hussein's barbarity and said the United States had toppled a "danger to the world." And when Mr. Bush addressed the country during the GOP convention last week, he briefly mentioned the Iraqi leader's history of pursuing weapons. "In Saddam Hussein, we saw a threat," Mr. Bush said. |
That is PURE SPIN. He said "danger to the world" as in WMDs and having murdered people in the past. I see NO FLIP FLOP THERE!
| Quote: | Osama bin Laden
After the Sept. 11 attacks, Mr. Bush identified Osama bin Laden as his No. 1 priority, saying he wanted the al-Qaeda leader "dead or alive."
Over time, mentions of Mr. bin Laden became infrequent. More recently, the president has acknowledged that he does not know where Mr. bin Laden is, saying that terrorism is bigger than one person and that he's not overly concerned with the al-Qaeda leader. |
Where's the flip-flop? We went into Iraq and had some necessities to discuss with that, and that is true. I don't see the flip-flop in saying that Osama is No. 1, and then saying that it was also bigger than one person, but I do NOT recall him playing down the concerns of Osama! This person gives basically NO evidence of his claims.
| Quote: | Nation building
As a candidate four years ago, Mr. Bush repeatedly criticized peacekeeping efforts in the Balkans, adding that he opposed turning U.S. troops into a "nation-building corps." "Our military is meant to fight and win war; that's what it's meant to do. And when it gets overextended, morale drops," he said during the final weeks of his 2000 campaign.
Now, he faces criticism for his administration's long-term commitment to rebuilding Iraq and Afghanistan. During his speech at the Republican convention, Mr. Bush said, "Our mission in Afghanistan and Iraq is clear: We will help new leaders to train their armies, and move toward elections, and get on the path of stability and democracy as quickly as possible." |
My gosh! This person is FORGETTING 9/11! That changed everything, and when we went in to Afganhistan and Iraq for defense, we HAD/HAVE to stay and help them rebuild. COME ON!
| Quote: | Gay marriage
Mr. Bush said during a 2000 Republican debate that he opposed gay marriage but that it was a state issue. "The states can do what they want to do," he said then.
This year, he called for a federal constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriages. "Decisive and democratic action is needed because attempts to redefine marriage in a single state or city have serious consequences throughout the country," he said in February. |
Okay, I don't know what to make of that, but I support his position now, and see that he saw the truth, but I don't know...
| Quote: | Steel tariffs
In 2002, the president imposed tariffs on most imported steel. The move prompted threats of retaliatory tariffs from the European Union.
In 2003, Mr. Bush rescinded the tariffs. He said the temporary protection allowed the steel industry to adjust to a surge in foreign imports, while union leaders said the president caved in to economic terrorism. |
Okay. That's fine.
Overall, he has hardly ever changed his mind--a MINISCULE amount to Kerry, and with good reason in most cases (he hasn't changed his mind on Iraq 15 different times, for instance) and this person really gives NO facts to back up her claim.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Sun Sep 12, 2004 5:09 pm |
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Wanna know the difference. Kerry changes opinions all the time, and it's blatantly obvious when he does it.
IF Bush does it, he does it once in a while, and they're only now unconvering them by digging through the records. Unlike Kerry, Bush isn't flamboyantly obvious in his indecisions.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Sep 12, 2004 5:16 pm |
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| LightningBoy wrote: | Wanna know the difference. Kerry changes opinions all the time, and it's blatantly obvious when he does it.
IF Bush does it, he does it once in a while, and they're only now unconvering them by digging through the records. Unlike Kerry, Bush isn't flamboyantly obvious in his indecisions. |
EXACTLY. You hit it right on.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:19 pm |
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So its ok that bush does it because we don't pick up on it right away? 
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Voyager`
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Aug 2001
Posts: 2579
Location: Iowa
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| Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:03 pm |
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It is ok for everyone to have change of minds and that. I do believe however someone in a leadership position should not change his mind very much( that means occassionaly is still alright), but for a leadrer to be constantly changeing his mind is not good for the people who have to live with the constant back and forth changes. Everyone changes their minds sometimes because no one is always right. It is only bad when you change your mind constantly nonstop
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:44 am |
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| Jeff Miller wrote: | | So its ok that bush does it because we don't pick up on it right away? |
Think about that. If he did it often, you'd pick up on it more quickly. That's why he IS NOT a "flip-flopper". (I hate that term, Flip Flopper, I mean, can't they come up with something more clever than that? LOL...)
Anyways, changing your mind is fine; changing your mind on a semi-weekly basis, however, is dangerous.
If you're viting for Kerry, how do you really know what you're voting for, when he's taken BOTH sides on almost EVERY issue, and has NOT been clear about what he DOES stand for.
Don't want to vote for Bush? Fine. Then find someone you actually WANT to vote for; don't just vote for the alternative that has no opinion.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:37 pm |
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^I won't say anymore than the above two statements are 100% in agreement with me!
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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