When "PC" goes too far, ;)

Pah-Wraith · **Sun Sep 05, 2004 3:26 pm**

Well yeah I kinda agree with some of the Article, However saying that I hope that any of you Yanks who choose to come to Europe either on Vacation or to live speak the Native Language of any of those Countries while there instead of expecting them to speak English. Also I think saying "you don't like Uncle Sam, then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet." is a little ridiculous, After all Uncle Sam doesn't actually exist- he's a Fictional Character used on Government Recruitment posters. What is the author's definition of American- Americans come from all corners of the world, you can hardly expect Korean and Hispanic Americans to give up their culture just because they are born and raised in America. I'd like to see how the Author would've felt if he was one of the first White Immigrants and the Native Americans gave them all this Anti-Plural stuff.

Theresa · **Sun Sep 05, 2004 3:32 pm**

The point, clearly is that we shouldn't have to change everything every time there is an influx of immigrants.

Pah-Wraith · **Sun Sep 05, 2004 3:35 pm**

Well the writer must've failed to have realised that these changes are going to come Naturally from the "Americans" themselves as it is probably the world's most Multi-Cultural Nation.

Theresa · **Sun Sep 05, 2004 3:37 pm**

Really. Is that what it is today? Yesterday we were the most racist,

I don't have to change who I am because you choose to come here. If I moved to Spain, I'd bother to learn Spanish, not expect everyone to change to suit me. And y'all say we are arrogant...

Pah-Wraith · **Sun Sep 05, 2004 3:59 pm**

Theresa · **Sun Sep 05, 2004 4:14 pm**

You come to America. You register for citizenship. You choose to be an American, knowing what goes on here. Then suddenly it bothers you, so the rest of the nation has to change.
When you go to NYC, your lucky if every third person speaks english. Many, many years ago many nations came together, and formed one country. Not 30 small individual countries. We aren't French/Indian/Scot/Brit/etc... anymore. We are Americans.

Voyager` · **Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:24 am**

I have to agree with that article, I believe that when you move to another country you should change to fit in and not decide everyone that is already here should change for you. If people move here they should have to learn our language and if they dont like some of the things that others do they shouldnt complain about it forever, they can state their opinion about why they dont like it and then just ignore it and live with it. I dont like some of the things other people do in there religions or some customs of other races that live here but do I go and complain about it to them expecting them to change? No I dont I let them do what they want to without hassel and I treat them just like Itreat anyone else. So when people feel they have to complain about stuff I believe in and the customs I have I think I have the right to be mad about it since I don't hassle them about what they believe in and their customs. If people are going to come over here to america the least they can do is learn our language and if they dont agree with some of the customs, religions, or mottos they should just let it be and not participate in them, there is no way that the "in good we trust" motto on our money and other places could kill anyone or hurt them just ignore it and be happy don't spend your time complaing and trying to make everyone change little things so your life can be perfect and whatnot.

Republican_Man · **Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:27 am**

Hitchhiker · **Mon Sep 06, 2004 2:42 am**

Meh, I think this is just the old argument of melting pot vs. mosaic all over again.

Although immigrants obviously must adapt to a new lifestyle within a country, the country must also adapt to them.

Immigrants bring change. This is only natural, after all, immigrants bring fresh ideas and contributions to society. Immigrants raise issues that might never have occurred before--and these issues are dealt with, whether the underlying principle is changed or not.

I prefer the idea of a cultural mosaic rather than melting pot, but this is probably because it's what's been drilled into my head by my geography teachers over the past two years.

Assimilation into the mainstream culture may be all well and good, but the point of contribution to the total society is to bring in unique aspects of your own culture. I agree that when you move to another country, you should make an effort to learn their major languages, their customs, et cetera--but you should retain your own, and pass them on through generation.

I like being able to say "Merry Christmas." If I say "Merry Christmas" to someone who doesn't celebrate Christmas, I still expect them to either respond with something similar or at least not take offense--after all, even if they don't celebrate Christmas, I do, and they know that because I've greeted them that way.

It would be just like saying, "Nice weather we're having" when the sky is overcast. Perhaps I prefer overcast and dreary weather. Although this may earn me some strange looks, I'm still allowed to say it.

However, overall some aspects of the melting pot may be unfair. Immigrants often come from poorer countries, and have uprooted their lives and the lives of their families in order to move to the U.S. and make a new living--a better living.

So they come to the U.S., but find out that they must do things "our way" instead of "their way". Most of the time this isn't a problem. But sometimes it may be. Suggest that you leave the country? The idea of immigration is that you've chosen this country as your home because of the opportunities it presents and its appeal--the Pull Factor. Oftentimes, immigrants don't have the resources to leave the country and begin all over again somewhere else, just because they don't like it here. You have to go with what you have.

Technically, the definition of American culture (and Canadian culture) should be one of multiculturalism, North America was originally inhabited by aboriginal peoples and the colonists from Europe and Asia. Multiculturalism opens up new doors.

It's not society that needs to adapt. It's not the immigrants that need to adapt. The point is that any culture you introduce into society will inevitably influence the mainstream, and vice versa. By assimiliating other cultures and having them experience a loss of identity, they are left in an unfamiliar world with alien concepts. On that note, however, I don't believe in extreme political correctness. The idea is that everyone should be able to take a joke, as long as that joke does not intentionally denigrate someone's culture.

I think it is perfectly fine to say, "Merry Christmas." During Christmas, I see plenty of Santa Claus and Christmas lights and other festive decorations out around town. People don't hide these things because it is politically incorrect to show them.

So yes, America is one sovereign culture.

But that one sovereing culture is a constantly changing brew of many other cultures.

And it is all the better for it.

::ducks::

Theresa · **Mon Sep 06, 2004 8:21 am**

I like having other cultures here. I like learning about them. I don't like that I must change to suit them. I don't want them to change to suit me. Individuality is a great thing. Being respectful, yes. I was told that I could be fired when I was at Walmart if I said "Merry Christmas" to a customer before they did. That's WAY out of line.

Hitchhiker · **Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:54 am**

Republican_Man · **Mon Sep 06, 2004 11:21 am**

Kyre · Commodore Joined: 15 Mar 2002 Posts: 1263

If a customer hits me at work, I can't retaliate without getting fired. No matter how much of a kicking they're trying to dish out. Apparently have to get a manager to fight back for me. heh.

Theresa · **Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:41 pm**

Yeah, basically the same here. Though if the customer hits me, I'm in trouble, too, so, since I'll be in trouble anyway, I'll hit back.

jbering69 · Lieutenant Joined: 09 Mar 2004 Posts: 137 Location: Canada

Luckily I am the manager so I get to hit back. And by the way who gave women the right to vote? While we're complaining I'd like to bring that up. (Mass sarcasm there). I do believe that PC has gone rampant and for the most part, I would like to throw up when I hear about its madness ie. Merry Christmas, - you're fired. However cultures must remain to a degree organic. You cannot explicitly define this as being an American attribute and this as not, it is a foolhardy exercise. American culture has changed since its original inception and will continue to change as each generation comes into its own.

Founder · **Tue Sep 07, 2004 4:38 am**

I agree with VERY few points and im disgusted with the rest. What is this a Klan meeting? I hear people saying foreigners need to do this and they need to do that. No they don't. As you all so eloquently put it, we have free rights here and can do what we want. We can do what we want as long as it suits the American standard of living? Thats not the same as anything. Yes they have to adapt but that doesn't mean they have to lose their original culture. It is a priviledge to live here. I agree. I love America. They should still be allowed to retain what they know. Another thing, most of the stuff you all are complaining about is brought on by Athiests.

jbering69 · Lieutenant Joined: 09 Mar 2004 Posts: 137 Location: Canada

Founder; I sincerely wish you could hear my applause right now.

Theresa · **Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:48 pm**

It's a "little messed up" that if I say Merry Christmas, I can be fired because I might be saying it to someone who doesn't celebrate Christmas? That's total BS. It is so incredibly wrong. If I say it, and you don't celebrate Christmas, SAY SO. Isn't that what freedom of speech is for? Apparently speech is only free when it agrees with the masses, is that it?
And how dare you blame all of this on atheists? A true atheist doesn't beleive in God. It's not like atheism is a religion.
I can't speak for every American, and neither can you. I gave my view. I can speak for myself.
Anywhere else you go, you have to be respectful of other cultures, i.e., not letting an asian see the bottom of your foot, w/e. (can't remember that one exactly), folding the napkin at a Jewish house where you've eaten, because if you don't, you will make them think that the dinner was unsatisfactory... But if you come to the USA, you don't have to do any of that. You have to make the American's change to your will. When a damn city official shows up at your door, and says you must take your nativity down because it is making some people angry, things are so far out of line it's not even funny.
I can't be me, but you can be you. Yeah, that sounds about right.
Immigrants choose to come here. They know what language we speak. No one said that they had to learn the entire language in 2 weeks. But most don't even make the attempt anymore.
So we're mutli-cultural. Is that every culture except that of Americans? I would say "native-American's", but even that's un PC now.
And you have the nerve to say that I'm not expected to change, when a prime example is given. An example you even comment on, and then say isn't so bad. A situation where I am told to change, or my job is in jeopardy.
I love how anyone who tries to make a point for American's is suddenly a KKK member. How bigotedly stereotypical of you. Saying that one shouldn't have to give up his/her rights isn't racist in the least. But nice try at the diversionary attempt there.

You are giving freedom to everyone except American's. How gallant of you. I'm glad to know this is what my ancestors died for. A country where if there's a fight between a black man and a white man, the black man can say it was racially motivated, and the white man is labelled a racist for life. A country where you call a company requesting an interview, and they ask if you are a minority or a woman, and if you're not, you aren't under consideration.
You probably still agree with Affirmative Action, too.

I'm not going to give the line that I have black, hispanic, etc... friends. Why should I? You don't even know my race. You certainly made a lot of assumptions in your replies.

Hitchhiker · **Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:03 pm**

What about refugees? They don't necessarily choose to come here.

Just because you're being forced to assimiliate into the mainstream does not mean the article is correct. It's just further proof that the article is not correct--everyone should be allowed to be themselves, and not conform to some sort of societal mainstream constant.

Theresa · **Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:06 pm**

Hitchhiker · **Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:39 pm**

The way I interpret the article is that it says no one should be themself, everyone should be the mainstream.

Oliver · **Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:40 pm**

The first article posted here is, to me, very aggressive and invites people to leave. It doesn't sound like a text that accompanies The Land of The Free.

No, you can't find a single sentence in that article that is mean, undemocratic or that attacks a certain group of people. It's written in such a way that it sounds good. However, if you think about it and begin to understand what the text implies... I hope poeple think differently.

Theresa · **Tue Sep 07, 2004 2:30 pm**

Right. And jobs in Maine that pay well are so easy to find. That's why I'm leaving the state, you know. Because I can't stand having a good income.
I was 20 years old, J was 18. We were supporting a family of four. Forgive us for not having the means to just walk out. My father was in the hospital for 3 months, and took over a year to recuperate. So again, forgive me for putting someone else's needs before my own. How selfish of me.

"text that accompanies The Land of The Free". Again, who is free? Clearly I am not free to be me. I am free to conform, though.

Founder · **Tue Sep 07, 2004 2:56 pm**