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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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 Sat May 01, 2004 4:14 am Revelation |
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This is carried on from WN and it would better better in here as it's not news.
George W. Bush, Stupid?
| Republican Man wrote: |
You know waht, I am TIRED OF THIS LYING AND SPINNING. PRESIDENT BUSH DID NOT GO TO WAR JUST FOR HIS BENEFIT. HE WENT BECAUSE IT WAS A THREAT TO THE WORLD, MORE SPECIFICALLY AMERICA, THAT INTELLIGENCE STATED!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm tired of all of this crap, "He only went in for his oil buddies--" when have we taken their oil--"We only went to Iraq because of his 'Alien Ship.'" As Eboneezer Scrooge would put it, "Bah Humbug! That's just nonsense!"
| Jeremy wrote: |
Remember, different people have different views on things. You cannot say that they are wrong. You can say you don't agree, but you can't say that they are lying, because they have different views. They could say exactly the same about you. Don't get me wrong, I am more of a Republican than Democrate (although I don't know that much about the different views in America). You have to respect others. Also I saw you saying Bush was the opposite of the Devil somewhere else. Obviously that is a bit of an overstatement from you, and you'll be the first to admit it as you're saying he's God, but remember: (This is because a lot of Republicans seem to be Christians) The antichrist in the bible is supposed to fool many people, so don't feel so strongly that someone is so great that you could almost say they are God. I think I'm going to have a lot of people against me now, but this is my view. And no one quote me saying Bush is the Antichrist, I'm not, I'm saying it is a possibilty. |
Okay, PLEASE NO!!! PRESIDENT BUSH IS NOTHING WHATSOEVER LIKE GOD, JESUS, OR ANYTHING! HE IS JUST A GREAT PRESIDENT THAT I SUPPORT 98%. Okay, and I never said they were wrong, I just expressed my OPINION! PLEASE NO! I HATE THE DAMNED THINGTHAT PEOPLE COULD SAY THAT I HAVE ANY RELIGIOUS OPION ABOUT BUSH!!!! HE IS NOTHING WHATSOEVER IN THE BIBLE AS FAR AS JESUS, GOD, OR THE ANTI-CHRIST... I HATE that you are TORMENTING ME LIKE THIS...You are TORMENTING ME, Jeremy!
You make me feel VERY distressed about this situation, Damn it! It is not right! In this case, I DO Say that YOU'RE wrong! Bah! And I don't know, and I hate the language I will use, but I don't know HOW THE HELL YOU GOT THAT FROM THE
WE WENT TO WAR IN IRAQ TO DEFEND AMERICA thing, okay...You really get me mad!!!!!
I'm sorry, Jeremy, but...Well, you're making me almost cry at the same time...
I appologize for what I've said (somewhat) but I can't express it in any other way! |
I know you didn't mean that he was God when you said that he was the opposite of the Devil, thats why I said you'd be the first to admit it. I also never said that Bush was the antichrist or anything! I said that you shouldn't regard a leader so highly that you can make comments that make it seem as if he's almost God. It wasn't a going to war with Iraq topic, which is why I made it. It was "is Bush stupid". It's ok what you said, as it's your view and it's no better than mine in the run of things. (Also it's diffcult to offend me  )
| B'Ellanna_Torrez wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | JanewayIsHott wrote: |
| Quote: | | 1 day with God =1,000 years |
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That's the theologians excuse for the theory of evolution. |
*blinks* Hm. Well, don't believe in evolution.  BUT, for the record... 2 Peter 3:8 is where that comes from. *carefully and quietly walks away from the subject, towards the bright white light that says 'The Original Topic of the Thread.' * |
I think this is generally accepted to mean that time has no value for God, since he is Infinite.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Sat May 01, 2004 11:59 am |
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^thats how I interpret it
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sat May 01, 2004 1:40 pm Re: Revelation |
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[quote="Jeremy"]This is carried on from WN and it would better better in here as it's not news.
George W. Bush, Stupid?
| Republican Man wrote: |
You know waht, I am TIRED OF THIS LYING AND SPINNING. PRESIDENT BUSH DID NOT GO TO WAR JUST FOR HIS BENEFIT. HE WENT BECAUSE IT WAS A THREAT TO THE WORLD, MORE SPECIFICALLY AMERICA, THAT INTELLIGENCE STATED!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm tired of all of this crap, "He only went in for his oil buddies--" when have we taken their oil--"We only went to Iraq because of his 'Alien Ship.'" As Eboneezer Scrooge would put it, "Bah Humbug! That's just nonsense!"
| Jeremy wrote: |
Remember, different people have different views on things. You cannot say that they are wrong. You can say you don't agree, but you can't say that they are lying, because they have different views. They could say exactly the same about you. Don't get me wrong, I am more of a Republican than Democrate (although I don't know that much about the different views in America). You have to respect others. Also I saw you saying Bush was the opposite of the Devil somewhere else. Obviously that is a bit of an overstatement from you, and you'll be the first to admit it as you're saying he's God, but remember: (This is because a lot of Republicans seem to be Christians) The antichrist in the bible is supposed to fool many people, so don't feel so strongly that someone is so great that you could almost say they are God. I think I'm going to have a lot of people against me now, but this is my view. And no one quote me saying Bush is the Antichrist, I'm not, I'm saying it is a possibilty. |
Okay, PLEASE NO!!! PRESIDENT BUSH IS NOTHING WHATSOEVER LIKE GOD, JESUS, OR ANYTHING! HE IS JUST A GREAT PRESIDENT THAT I SUPPORT 98%. Okay, and I never said they were wrong, I just expressed my OPINION! PLEASE NO! I HATE THE DAMNED THINGTHAT PEOPLE COULD SAY THAT I HAVE ANY RELIGIOUS OPION ABOUT BUSH!!!! HE IS NOTHING WHATSOEVER IN THE BIBLE AS FAR AS JESUS, GOD, OR THE ANTI-CHRIST... I HATE that you are TORMENTING ME LIKE THIS...You are TORMENTING ME, Jeremy!
You make me feel VERY distressed about this situation, Damn it! It is not right! In this case, I DO Say that YOU'RE wrong! Bah! And I don't know, and I hate the language I will use, but I don't know HOW THE HELL YOU GOT THAT FROM THE
WE WENT TO WAR IN IRAQ TO DEFEND AMERICA thing, okay...You really get me mad!!!!!
I'm sorry, Jeremy, but...Well, you're making me almost cry at the same time...
I appologize for what I've said (somewhat) but I can't express it in any other way! |
I know you didn't mean that he was God when you said that he was the opposite of the Devil, thats why I said you'd be the first to admit it. I also never said that Bush was the antichrist or anything! I said that you shouldn't regard a leader so highly that you can make comments that make it seem as if he's almost God. It wasn't a going to war with Iraq topic, which is why I made it. It was "is Bush stupid". It's ok what you said, as it's your view and it's no better than mine in the run of things. (Also it's diffcult to offend me )
What I meant by he's the opposite of the Devil is that he's NOT an EVIL man--he's a good man and a good Christain. And it was CHANGED to "going to war with Iraq" and NOT because of ME! I was just adding on to the discussion! But that is, as the Klingons say, an "honorable" thing to say...But still, I HATE the way you put things...He's NOT EVEN CLOSE TO THE ALMIGHTY GOD AND JESUS, etc! Alright????!!!!!!! I had NEVER interpreted him even CLOSE to that way...
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Sat May 01, 2004 4:08 pm Re: Revelation |
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| Jeremy wrote: |
| B'Ellanna_Torrez wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | JanewayIsHott wrote: |
| Quote: | | 1 day with God =1,000 years |
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That's the theologians excuse for the theory of evolution. |
*blinks* Hm. Well, don't believe in evolution. BUT, for the record... 2 Peter 3:8 is where that comes from. *carefully and quietly walks away from the subject, towards the bright white light that says 'The Original Topic of the Thread.' * |
I think this is generally accepted to mean that time has no value for God, since he is Infinite. |
It was used in Tennessee vs. Scopes (the argument that a day with "god" could be an infinite amount of time).
Last edited by IntrepidIsMe on Sat May 01, 2004 4:23 pm; edited 2 times in total
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Sat May 01, 2004 4:11 pm |
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Alright. Let�s pick apart this verse, shall we? I have a Strong�s Concordance and a King James at my side. Let�s take �er back to the original language, shall we? The original text is QUITE specific. If you can correct me, go for it. Here we go.
The verse I�m taking, 2 Peter 3:8, reads:
�But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is a thousand years, and a thousand years one day.�
Alright. Let�s be clear. What does �Day� mean? Are they talking literal? You tell me.
Day, in this context, when taken back to the original Greek, is hemera.
(pronounced hay-mer-ah) Hemera means �The time and space between dawn and dark, or the whole 24 hours, a period, time, while, years.�
Sounds like your conventional Day in the English to me. Notice "Years." Okay. That said. Let�s take �Thousand� next. Are they talking a true Thousand, as in English? Let us see.
In the original Greek, �Thousand�, in this context, is chilioi.
(pronounced khil-ee-oy) Chilioi means; a thousand.
Simple. We�re talking numbers. Finally, let�s take �Years.� Literal years, or something more vague? Again, enlighten me.
Years, in this context, when taken back to the original Greek, is etos.
(pronounced et-os) Etos means; primary word; a year.
Okay. There you go. You want to correct me? Go for it, I�d like to be proven wrong if I can. Sounds pretty darn literal to me. What do you think? ((And, by the way; both �Day�s , �Thousand�s, and 'Years' in the verse were to be translated the same way, I checked all six words.))
Last edited by Arellia on Sat May 01, 2004 5:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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GhostOfAMemory
Star-crossed Voyager
Joined: 06 Sep 2003
Posts: 4322
Location: My computer... duh
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| Sat May 01, 2004 5:31 pm |
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Personally, I think that verse is just saying that God is so big that time really has no meaning to Him. 1 day, a thousand years, it's all the same to one so vast. Time is just irrelevant to Him...
-------signature-------
- The road goes ever on and on, down from door where it began; Now far ahead the road has gone, and I must follow, if I can -
Jesus loves you! God bless
Go to www.purevolume.com/leahcoiro NOW or face anhilation! BWAHA!
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Sat May 01, 2004 5:40 pm |
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I don't believe a day for a so called "god" could be any specific amount of time (a thousand years, a billion, whatever). But then again, it dosn't really make a difference to me.
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Sat May 01, 2004 5:44 pm |
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*sighs* Alright, fine. That's all I can give on that, so I suppose it doesn't change anything. All I'm saying, is that the way it was written, the way it was supposed to be taken, was literal. There are other definitions of the key words in the verse that could've been used if it had meant to say something different, that were not. There are several variations of each word in the original languages, these were the words chosen. They used specific ones for a reason. ...and...well...when you star saying 'I think'? Remember that there's one truth. The bible is specific, simply doesn't always translate that way as English is really a ver vague language. What I'm saying here is not 'I think it's translated this way' or 'I think these words were literal.' They were. Neither is it 'I think one day is equal to a thousand years with God.' This is not my opinion. At all. This stuff was written. None of that post was my thoughts. It was the translations. That's all. Translations that were meant to be literal because they were written that way to begin with. I admit, some of the bible is figurative. Some words can be meant different than they are written (i.e. Adam can be translated 3 ways) but this verse WAS literal.
But, believe what you will, up to you. I've said what I came to say, and I'll leave it alone now.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Sat May 01, 2004 7:49 pm |
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If the Bible is written so literally, why do parts of it contradict itself, and why do protestants not practice everything in it?
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Sat May 01, 2004 7:55 pm |
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The bible is specific, simply doesn't always translate that way as English is really a ver vague language. What I'm saying here is not 'I think it's translated this way' or 'I think these words were literal.' They were. Neither is it 'I think one day is equal to a thousand years with God.' This is not my opinion. At all. This stuff was written. None of that post was my thoughts. It was the translations. That's all. Translations that were meant to be literal because they were written that way to begin with. I admit, some of the bible is figurative. Some words can be meant different than they are written (i.e. Adam can be translated 3 ways) but this verse WAS literal.
Not ALWAYS literal. This verse just so happened to be written so. There's other translations for Day. And Years. But those were not the words used when it was first written. I can get you a figurative verse and show you the same little trick with the Strongs. Real easy.
And find me a contradiction. Strongs is still lyin' right here.
Why do protestants not practice everything in it? I wouldn't know. I'm not protestant. Nor do I know what protestants believe.
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Sat May 01, 2004 9:36 pm |
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So do you believe that Moses really lived for over 900 years (or something like that)?
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Sat May 01, 2004 11:22 pm |
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I'm not certain how long he lived.
Although, you will notice, no man ever lived to be any older than 1,000, or one day, depending on what you want to call it.
EDIT: Late-night stupidity.
Last edited by Arellia on Sat May 01, 2004 11:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Sat May 01, 2004 11:23 pm |
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Oh, a bit lower, like around 60 years? 
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Sat May 01, 2004 11:27 pm |
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*shrugs* I don't know all these things off the top of my head, boy. It's too darn late to be doing this.
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Sat May 01, 2004 11:54 pm |
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Moses was 120 years old when he died.
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Sun May 02, 2004 12:16 am |
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Gosh, I though it was 900, or something like that, maybe I'm thinking of Abraham? Not sure, but either way, it's completley unrealistic.
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Sun May 02, 2004 12:18 am |
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yeah...someone like that lived a really really long time........supposedly
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Link, the Hero of Time
Vice Admiral
Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 5581
Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Sun May 02, 2004 12:24 am |
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Methuselah lived for 969 years.
-------signature-------
"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." President Thomas Jefferson
"A man's respect for law and order exists in precise relationship to the size of his paycheck." Adam Clayton Powell Jr.
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Sun May 02, 2004 12:57 am |
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*sighs* I think I'm going to quit now, I'm not getting anywhere. I've said my peace. Ah, well. Been interesting. *waves and exits*
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GhostOfAMemory
Star-crossed Voyager
Joined: 06 Sep 2003
Posts: 4322
Location: My computer... duh
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| Sun May 02, 2004 2:54 am |
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| B'Ellanna_Torrez wrote: | *sighs* Alright, fine. That's all I can give on that, so I suppose it doesn't change anything. All I'm saying, is that the way it was written, the way it was supposed to be taken, was literal. There are other definitions of the key words in the verse that could've been used if it had meant to say something different, that were not. There are several variations of each word in the original languages, these were the words chosen. They used specific ones for a reason. ...and...well...when you star saying 'I think'? Remember that there's one truth. The bible is specific, simply doesn't always translate that way as English is really a ver vague language. What I'm saying here is not 'I think it's translated this way' or 'I think these words were literal.' They were. Neither is it 'I think one day is equal to a thousand years with God.' This is not my opinion. At all. This stuff was written. None of that post was my thoughts. It was the translations. That's all. Translations that were meant to be literal because they were written that way to begin with. I admit, some of the bible is figurative. Some words can be meant different than they are written (i.e. Adam can be translated 3 ways) but this verse WAS literal.
But, believe what you will, up to you. I've said what I came to say, and I'll leave it alone now. |
when i said "I think it means..." That's what I meant. I'm not saying for 100% sure that it is what it means, but it's what I BELEIVE it means, even though I'm not 100% sure. Sometimes I think people take somethings in the Bible TOO litterally. And other take some things that are litteral... unlitteral. I mean, do WE not use litteral words to describe unlitteral concepts? Can God not do the same?? Jesus spoke in parable a lot of the time. But He was using litteral words. Yes, a day is a litteral thing, and a thousand years is a litteral thing, but the way He said it could mean something unlitteral. 
-------signature-------
- The road goes ever on and on, down from door where it began; Now far ahead the road has gone, and I must follow, if I can -
Jesus loves you! God bless
Go to www.purevolume.com/leahcoiro NOW or face anhilation! BWAHA!
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Sun May 02, 2004 8:51 am |
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| Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | | Methuselah lived for 969 years. |
I know a scientist (who has prizes for his work by the way) who believes that he did live for that long. And here's the reason for it:
The people before Noah lived for a long time (900 years or so) but afterwards their lives got shorter and shorter. In Genesis 7:11 it says:
"...on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of heaven were opened."
They think that this means there was a lot more water in the atmosphere and so we didn't dry out as fast. After all this water fell to earth it caused the air to be drier and so people dry out quicker and so live shorter lives.
It also says that God shortened the days people will live.
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Sun May 02, 2004 9:01 am Re: Revelation |
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[quote="Republican_Man"] | Jeremy wrote: | This is carried on from WN and it would better better in here as it's not news.
George W. Bush, Stupid?
| Republican Man wrote: |
You know waht, I am TIRED OF THIS LYING AND SPINNING. PRESIDENT BUSH DID NOT GO TO WAR JUST FOR HIS BENEFIT. HE WENT BECAUSE IT WAS A THREAT TO THE WORLD, MORE SPECIFICALLY AMERICA, THAT INTELLIGENCE STATED!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm tired of all of this crap, "He only went in for his oil buddies--" when have we taken their oil--"We only went to Iraq because of his 'Alien Ship.'" As Eboneezer Scrooge would put it, "Bah Humbug! That's just nonsense!"
| Jeremy wrote: |
Remember, different people have different views on things. You cannot say that they are wrong. You can say you don't agree, but you can't say that they are lying, because they have different views. They could say exactly the same about you. Don't get me wrong, I am more of a Republican than Democrate (although I don't know that much about the different views in America). You have to respect others. Also I saw you saying Bush was the opposite of the Devil somewhere else. Obviously that is a bit of an overstatement from you, and you'll be the first to admit it as you're saying he's God, but remember: (This is because a lot of Republicans seem to be Christians) The antichrist in the bible is supposed to fool many people, so don't feel so strongly that someone is so great that you could almost say they are God. I think I'm going to have a lot of people against me now, but this is my view. And no one quote me saying Bush is the Antichrist, I'm not, I'm saying it is a possibilty. |
Okay, PLEASE NO!!! PRESIDENT BUSH IS NOTHING WHATSOEVER LIKE GOD, JESUS, OR ANYTHING! HE IS JUST A GREAT PRESIDENT THAT I SUPPORT 98%. Okay, and I never said they were wrong, I just expressed my OPINION! PLEASE NO! I HATE THE DAMNED THINGTHAT PEOPLE COULD SAY THAT I HAVE ANY RELIGIOUS OPION ABOUT BUSH!!!! HE IS NOTHING WHATSOEVER IN THE BIBLE AS FAR AS JESUS, GOD, OR THE ANTI-CHRIST... I HATE that you are TORMENTING ME LIKE THIS...You are TORMENTING ME, Jeremy!
You make me feel VERY distressed about this situation, Damn it! It is not right! In this case, I DO Say that YOU'RE wrong! Bah! And I don't know, and I hate the language I will use, but I don't know HOW THE HELL YOU GOT THAT FROM THE
WE WENT TO WAR IN IRAQ TO DEFEND AMERICA thing, okay...You really get me mad!!!!!
I'm sorry, Jeremy, but...Well, you're making me almost cry at the same time...
I appologize for what I've said (somewhat) but I can't express it in any other way! |
I know you didn't mean that he was God when you said that he was the opposite of the Devil, thats why I said you'd be the first to admit it. I also never said that Bush was the antichrist or anything! I said that you shouldn't regard a leader so highly that you can make comments that make it seem as if he's almost God. It wasn't a going to war with Iraq topic, which is why I made it. It was "is Bush stupid". It's ok what you said, as it's your view and it's no better than mine in the run of things. (Also it's diffcult to offend me )
What I meant by he's the opposite of the Devil is that he's NOT an EVIL man--he's a good man and a good Christain. And it was CHANGED to "going to war with Iraq" and NOT because of ME! I was just adding on to the discussion! But that is, as the Klingons say, an "honorable" thing to say...But still, I HATE the way you put things...He's NOT EVEN CLOSE TO THE ALMIGHTY GOD AND JESUS, etc! Alright????!!!!!!! I had NEVER interpreted him even CLOSE to that way... |
Ok, you're getting me a bit annoyed. Please read what I said. I didn't say anything about Bush actually being the antichrist, ok? I said "you shouldn't regard a leader so highly that you can make comments that make it seem as if he's almost God."
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