| Homosexuality, etc..-Wrong? |
| No, it's not wrong. It's abnormal, but not wrong necessarily |
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13% |
[ 17 ] |
| Not wrong, just weird but I don't mind it |
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22% |
[ 28 ] |
| Yes, it is WRONG! Die HOMOs, DIE! |
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3% |
[ 4 ] |
| I believe it is wrong for religious reasons. |
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17% |
[ 22 ] |
| It's just wrong, that's all there is to say. |
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8% |
[ 11 ] |
| I'm gay-GAY PRIDE! |
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18% |
[ 23 ] |
| Its not wrong or abnormal |
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16% |
[ 21 ] |
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| Total Votes : 126 |
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| Author |
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Captain Patrick
Commodore
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 2421
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 Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:38 pm |
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| Untitled wrote: | I believe in love, and if two people are of age and consent and happen to be the same sex and are in love. Why is that wrong?
And also us humans love to have sex, there is truely nothing wrong with having sex with a person of the same sex if their of age and consent. And also if it is not hurting someone else in the process (say extra marrital sex)
Here's my question: Why is sex between to people of the same sex considered a sin? |
Same basic thing he said, and i would also love to here the answer to his question why is sexual acts bewteen people of the same sex a sin?
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:40 pm |
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Within the Catholic Church it's a sin because it's sex without having the option open for creating new life. According to the Church, all sex should be within marriage and have that option open, without using any extraordinary measures (such as condoms, birth control, etc.) to prevent pregnancy.
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:12 am |
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| lionhead wrote: |
I don't agree on the way Christians look upon Homosxuality, i think the look of it is way to shallow since they base it of the bible and the bible is nowhere near "clear"
I think if you would actually read some of the literature such as the Catechism, and Apostolic Letters that have come out from the Vatican, as well as works by many Catholic laity, you would find that the way the Church views it is anything but shallow. You may find masses of Christians who demonstrate ignorance on the subject, and that I have no problem with saying. However, it demonstrates your own ignorance if you believe that the Church is "shallow" on this issue.
I mean, just the passage that Puck quoted alone: "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
It says, Homosexual Offenders, not Homosexuals in general right? Doesn't that means that it only points to the ones that do the act of Sodomy and the like? or am i reading this wrong?
Homosexual acts, as well as any sexual acts outside of marriage are a sin. But as I clearly stated, and as the Catechism of the Catholic Church clearly states, same-sex attractions in themselves are not a sin.
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For any of you who ask why homosexual acts are a sin, I suggest you read Aaron's last few posts, along with the first post I made in response to Pan. The Catholic Church 'believes in love'. As a matter of fact, the Church is the truest promoter of love in this world which has become saturated with our cultures false ideals of love and what it is. It certainly does not reduce love to the pleasure one finds in sex, which is clearly what is happening even within this thread. If anyone really believes in love and seeks it in it's true form, then they will find themselves to come to agreement with the Church with respects to it's view on the sacredness of life, dignity of the individual, theology of the body, and it's message on what love is. I think the Pope's encyclical "Deus Caritas Est" (God Is Love) clearly shows it's devotion to love.
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CJ Cregg
Commodore
Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 1254
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| Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:59 pm |
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| Puck wrote: |
"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Cor. 6:9�10, NIV) |
There's so many different translations and interpretations of that verse:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibc1.htm
This site is a good one for Christianity and Homosexuality:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibl.htm
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:48 pm |
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It's true that there are several translation. The one that is approved by the US Conference of Catholic Bishops is the NAB version though which is:
| Quote: | 9
Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites
10
nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. |
It is true that this may have been refering to the practice of older men engaging in sex with younger boys. Either way though, homosexual acts are condemn elsewhere in the New Testament such as Romans 1:26-27. Also, it is clearly condemned as the primary reason why Sodom was destroyed.
All of this being said, I feel it is important that people also realize that people need to show compassion and kindness to anyone who struggles with same-sex attraction. While they must be shown the truth, and we cannot condone acts between two people of the same sex, they must be treated with the dignity that every person deserves and that cannot be taken away because it was given to them by God. Homosexuals are not necessarily called to 'convert' and become straight, but it is important that if they cannot overcome their attraction to the same-sex, they need to remain chaste and abstain from sexual acts with the same sex.
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lionhead
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)
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| Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:03 am |
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| Puck wrote: | It's true that there are several translation. The one that is approved by the US Conference of Catholic Bishops is the NAB version though which is:
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Which means there is a good chance this translation isn't the words of God.
Because how would a bishop know?
-------signature-------
Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore
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Untitled
Commander
Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 396
Location: abandoned
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| Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:56 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Within the Catholic Church it's a sin because it's sex without having the option open for creating new life. According to the Church, all sex should be within marriage and have that option open, without using any extraordinary measures (such as condoms, birth control, etc.) to prevent pregnancy. |
- That is pretty much what I thought. Because the ultimate point of sex is procreation.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:12 pm |
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| lionhead wrote: | | Puck wrote: | It's true that there are several translation. The one that is approved by the US Conference of Catholic Bishops is the NAB version though which is:
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Which means there is a good chance this translation isn't the words of God.
Because how would a bishop know? |
Here are the translations from the different Bibles according to that site...which all basically state the same thing...
"men who practice homosexuality," (ESV);
"those who participate in homosexuality," (Amplified);
"abusers of themselves with men," (KJV);
"practicing homosexuals," (NAB);
"homosexuals," (NASB, CSB, NKJ, The Great Book: The New Testament in Plain English);
"homosexual perversion," (NEB);
"homosexual offenders," (NIV);
"liers with mankind," (Rhiems); and
"homosexual perverts." (TEV)
One of the reasons NAB is correct, is because it is the original presentation of the Bible. By this I mean that it includes the books that the Protestants took out of the Old Testament in the KJV and other such Bibles.
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craign
Senior Cadet
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 20
Location: USS Voyager NCC-74656
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| Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:17 pm |
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I have no problems with anyone being different. Religious, LGBTQ, disabled, old or anything.  I am gay myself, so...
I also have no problems with people disliking me my sexual acts. However when people are prejudiced against us/anyone, or discriminate against us/anyone, then I become a little annoyed, as it is no-ones right within this world to state that we should "Burn in hell", that we "are abominations" or one that most people seem to like here "*beep* off ye *beep* *beep* *beep* head".
TO HELL WITH 'EM!
xxCR41Gxx
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Tyvek
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Jul 2001
Posts: 2821
Location: Mississippi, USA
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| Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:36 pm |
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| craign wrote: | I have no problems with anyone being different. Religious, LGBTQ, disabled, old or anything. I am gay myself, so...
I also have no problems with people disliking me my sexual acts. However when people are prejudiced against us/anyone, or discriminate against us/anyone, then I become a little annoyed, as it is no-ones right within this world to state that we should "Burn in hell", that we "are abominations" or one that most people seem to like here "*beep* off ye *beep* *beep* *beep* head".
TO HELL WITH 'EM!
xxCR41Gxx |
It bothers me when people can condemn us for the way we are... its not like it is really a choice, because if I had a choice i would be straight... it is just easier that way. But call it nature, nurture, sin, whatever I did not make a choice... yes I make a choice to live the way that makes me happiest... but since when was that wrong? I may go to hell, I may suffer my time here on earth... but I lived life to the fullest, and I dare anyone to tell me that I am wrong.
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KateReba fan
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 251
Location: BC
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| Sat Mar 10, 2007 2:33 pm |
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I don't see any problem if a person chooses to live their life by being with someone of the same sex. I agree that it's isn't something you "choose to be". You are what you are and maybe a person is just afraid to admit that they are that way. I personally am not but hey, I am proud of people who are and I would proudly stand up for Gay Pride things and that. I have a few friends who are Gay/Bi and I don't treat them any different than if they were straight.
-------signature-------
�Be different, stand out, and work your butt off.� -- Reba McEntire
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craign
Senior Cadet
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 20
Location: USS Voyager NCC-74656
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| Sun Mar 11, 2007 4:25 pm |
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| Tyvek wrote: | | craign wrote: | I have no problems with anyone being different. Religious, LGBTQ, disabled, old or anything. I am gay myself, so...
I also have no problems with people disliking me my sexual acts. However when people are prejudiced against us/anyone, or discriminate against us/anyone, then I become a little annoyed, as it is no-ones right within this world to state that we should "Burn in hell", that we "are abominations" or one that most people seem to like here "*beep* off ye *beep* *beep* *beep* head".
TO HELL WITH 'EM!
xxCR41Gxx |
It bothers me when people can condemn us for the way we are... its not like it is really a choice, because if I had a choice i would be straight... it is just easier that way. But call it nature, nurture, sin, whatever I did not make a choice... yes I make a choice to live the way that makes me happiest... but since when was that wrong? I may go to hell, I may suffer my time here on earth... but I lived life to the fullest, and I dare anyone to tell me that I am wrong. |
Well said 
When it comes down to it, we are all bisexual. Only people differ from one side to the other, most towards the "straight" side. Which means reall, that the LGBTQ ones should not be treated different from anyone else.
Do any of you flipping people know how hard it is to groq up knowing you are gay? It is hell. Thanks to homophobes, it is flaming hell. Right now, I am terrified to come out to anyone incase I am hit / killed. Wouldnt surprise me if I was, it is REALLY homophobic in Edinburgh :S...
I can safely assure you, if you were gay for a day, then you would know what it is like.
And for the people saying we will burn in hell or the like, THE WORDS YOU TYPED ARE NOT WORTH THE MEMORY THEY ARE TAKING UP!
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Sun Mar 11, 2007 5:06 pm |
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Here, at least, people are allowed any view they choose as long as they are respectful in presenting it. That goes for both sides. Keep yourself in check, or keep your opinions to yourself.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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lionhead
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)
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| Sun Mar 11, 2007 6:14 pm |
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| craign wrote: |
Well said
When it comes down to it, we are all bisexual. Only people differ from one side to the other, most towards the "straight" side. Which means reall, that the LGBTQ ones should not be treated different from anyone else.
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i wonder where you get that idea. What would be the logic in nature to have every single member of a species bisexual?
-------signature-------
Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:58 pm |
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Is there any logic in nature to have homosexuality in general? You can argue that there is up to a point (population control, etc), but not really for the entire number of people who claim to be homosexual. My point being that not all human (or otherwise) tendencies are "logical."
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Sun Mar 11, 2007 8:19 pm |
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| craign wrote: | | When it comes down to it, we are all bisexual. |
Where did you get this from? Is this opinion or fact? Proof if fact?
I don't mind gay people, and I am not homophobic. But I don't appreciate being dictated what my sexual preference is.
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KateReba fan
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 251
Location: BC
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| Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:06 pm |
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| PrankishSmart wrote: | | craign wrote: | | When it comes down to it, we are all bisexual. |
Where did you get this from? Is this opinion or fact? Proof if fact?
I don't mind gay people, and I am not homophobic. But I don't appreciate being dictated what my sexual preference is. |
I have to agree with PrankishSmart. I'm not upset with you Craign for saying this since you were just stating your opinion, but I know i'm not bisexual and have never been.
-------signature-------
�Be different, stand out, and work your butt off.� -- Reba McEntire
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lionhead
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)
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| Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:45 am |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Is there any logic in nature to have homosexuality in general? You can argue that there is up to a point (population control, etc), but not really for the entire number of people who claim to be homosexual. My point being that not all human (or otherwise) tendencies are "logical." |
Everything in nature is logical. But homosexuality isn't natural. Its just lust in my opinion. and lust should not be tolerated.
I still don't understand what Homosexuality makes to be considderd normal/natural. Why is it that its being placed in a different category then other sexual fetishes/fantasies/ideas.
Yes, i don't take Homosexuality seriously and i certainly don't compare it to Heterosexual love.
-------signature-------
Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:35 pm |
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| lionhead wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Is there any logic in nature to have homosexuality in general? You can argue that there is up to a point (population control, etc), but not really for the entire number of people who claim to be homosexual. My point being that not all human (or otherwise) tendencies are "logical." |
Everything in nature is logical. But homosexuality isn't natural. Its just lust in my opinion. and lust should not be tolerated.
I still don't understand what Homosexuality makes to be considderd normal/natural. Why is it that its being placed in a different category then other sexual fetishes/fantasies/ideas.
Yes, i don't take Homosexuality seriously and i certainly don't compare it to Heterosexual love. |
So all the instances of homosexuality that appear in nature aren't natural (humans excluded)?
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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lionhead
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)
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| Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:27 am |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | lionhead wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Is there any logic in nature to have homosexuality in general? You can argue that there is up to a point (population control, etc), but not really for the entire number of people who claim to be homosexual. My point being that not all human (or otherwise) tendencies are "logical." |
Everything in nature is logical. But homosexuality isn't natural. Its just lust in my opinion. and lust should not be tolerated.
I still don't understand what Homosexuality makes to be considderd normal/natural. Why is it that its being placed in a different category then other sexual fetishes/fantasies/ideas.
Yes, i don't take Homosexuality seriously and i certainly don't compare it to Heterosexual love. |
So all the instances of homosexuality that appear in nature aren't natural (humans excluded)? |
Name one instance of homosexuality in nature, humans excluded.
-------signature-------
Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:09 pm |
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| lionhead wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | lionhead wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Is there any logic in nature to have homosexuality in general? You can argue that there is up to a point (population control, etc), but not really for the entire number of people who claim to be homosexual. My point being that not all human (or otherwise) tendencies are "logical." |
Everything in nature is logical. But homosexuality isn't natural. Its just lust in my opinion. and lust should not be tolerated.
I still don't understand what Homosexuality makes to be considderd normal/natural. Why is it that its being placed in a different category then other sexual fetishes/fantasies/ideas.
Yes, i don't take Homosexuality seriously and i certainly don't compare it to Heterosexual love. |
So all the instances of homosexuality that appear in nature aren't natural (humans excluded)? |
Name one instance of homosexuality in nature, humans excluded. |
There are occasionally animals which do practice it. Kind of like there are gorillas that give pleasure to themselves (and dolphins too, people believe).
Some arguments might be that human sexuality is very different from animal. It is more than slightly psychologically based. The act is enhanced, or even based on, a purely psychological connection--meaning the biology is somewhat secondary.
On the 'we are all bisexual' thing (craign's argument)... that's... no. You can't make that general of an argument, since I know myself, and I know that not only do I have an aversion towards acquiring female friends, I find myself absolutely disgusted at sexually desiring or even admiring another woman. This is nothing against women who do like women. That's fine. I simply... not... at... all.
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lionhead
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)
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| Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:45 pm |
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| Arellia wrote: | | lionhead wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | lionhead wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Is there any logic in nature to have homosexuality in general? You can argue that there is up to a point (population control, etc), but not really for the entire number of people who claim to be homosexual. My point being that not all human (or otherwise) tendencies are "logical." |
Everything in nature is logical. But homosexuality isn't natural. Its just lust in my opinion. and lust should not be tolerated.
I still don't understand what Homosexuality makes to be considderd normal/natural. Why is it that its being placed in a different category then other sexual fetishes/fantasies/ideas.
Yes, i don't take Homosexuality seriously and i certainly don't compare it to Heterosexual love. |
So all the instances of homosexuality that appear in nature aren't natural (humans excluded)? |
Name one instance of homosexuality in nature, humans excluded. |
There are occasionally animals which do practice it. Kind of like there are gorillas that give pleasure to themselves (and dolphins too, people believe).
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Practice what? Sodomy? Thats your proof of Homosexuality in Nature? Sodomy isn't neccesarily Homosexuality. when a Male Dog(or gorilla, or rabbit) "mounts" another male its just hormones, hornyness that takes control for a moment(Lust, if you will). The animal performing the act doesn't expect the other Male to return the favour or to come back for more(either sexual or emotional) and the sodomizer certainly won't quit doing it with females.
Gorillas and other primates have a certain relationship bond closely resembling Humans. You don't really see 2 Male gorillas in an actual sexual relationship do you? Or even more unrealistic, one taking over the tasks of a female gorilla(like raising a young and competing with other females).. Do you really see the Silverback dominant male walking over to the group of females to choose a mate and find a Homosexual Male between them do you?
I would like to see the proof of that, show me a Documentary, nature website or a news page that tells the story of that behavior.
-------signature-------
Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:56 pm |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_animals
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15750604/
You also may be exhibitting what some people believe is an evolutionarily-based hostility towards homosexuals, where nature selected those who would better promote the species. I'm not sure of this theory, though it sounds like it may be at least possible. There are many instincts which are deeply engrained in our evolution, which sometimes dictates our feelings about things.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:35 pm |
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We can't compare sexuality between animals and humans. Animals engage in sex for physical pleasure and to reproduce. Humans are completely different. Sexual intercourse between humans is all about love, something that makes us distinct from animals. For us, sex for is about (at least when it is healthy) the complete giving of ones self to one other person out of love for them. To make a comparison between humans having sex and animals having sex incredibly degrades human sexuality, and humans themselves.
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craign
Senior Cadet
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 20
Location: USS Voyager NCC-74656
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| Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:56 am |
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No no no no no.
You have misunderstood what I meant. Everyone IS bisexual to an extent. Only more to one side than the other. "Gay" and "straight" are at either end and "Bisexual" is in the middle. Most people in the world have had crushes on people of the same sex. I was not dictating anyones sexuality.
Sexuality is not like cement. It can change slightly. I am not saying you can go from Straight to Gay, but you can fancy someone of the opposite sex.
I will look for the website I got that information from, and post it here.
| Quote: | | Everything in nature is logical. But homosexuality isn't natural. Its just lust in my opinion. and lust should not be tolerated. |
Says the man who earlier on in this thread, claimed that gay MEN are un-natural, but that Lesbians were a different story? Hypocrite much?
There can not be a problem with homosexuality in the ways you claim. And you can not argue that gay men are different from gay women. Simply put, you fancy women. This results in:
1) Two women kiss each other and play about a bit. You find this sexually arousing, and therefore you think nothing is wrong with it.
2) Two men kiss each other and play around a bit. You do not find this sexually arousing and therefore think it is wrong.
I don't think you can deny that.
I take it all straight men that wear pink shirts will rot in hell?
And homosexuality has been found to be in Animals as well.
Its 5:43 here, so this is rusty. I will fix it later.
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