| Vote For US Elections |
| Pres. Bush |
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51% |
[ 18 ] |
| Sen. Kerry |
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45% |
[ 16 ] |
| Independent |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
| Undecided |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
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| Total Votes : 35 |
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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 Tue Oct 26, 2004 8:08 pm |
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| TrekkieMage wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: |
And TrekkieMage, you are right, now that I think about it. Both candidates slander each other, it just so happens that Kerry does it more. |
Thank you, and they do, it's just a perception as to who does it more.
And just to point out a small factoid: I looked at both of the canidates sites, and Bush has that Kerry media center thingie that is just to point out Kerry's percieved inaccuricies.
The Kerry site doesn't have anything like that.
Just a small point  |
I don't see what your point is. Is it that it's BAD to have information about Kerry's record? Huh?
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Mikado
Commander
Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 439
Location: *sigh* California. *grumble.*
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| Tue Oct 26, 2004 10:05 pm |
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| Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | | And both candidates slander each other. It's not hard to sit there and critisize Kerry, but Bush's record isn't any better. |
Mn, yes. But my main problem with Kerry, is that he spends all of his time bashing Bush. And I still don't know what his plan for the country is.
So, asking in a non-sarcastic manner. And anyone that knows me, knows how hard that is for me.. What is Kerry's plan?
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Hi, I'm Mikado.
Because it makes me giggle.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Oct 26, 2004 10:07 pm |
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| Mikado wrote: | | Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | | And both candidates slander each other. It's not hard to sit there and critisize Kerry, but Bush's record isn't any better. |
Mn, yes. But my main problem with Kerry, is that he spends all of his time bashing Bush. And I still don't know what his plan for the country is.
So, asking in a non-sarcastic manner. And anyone that knows me, knows how hard that is for me.. What is Kerry's plan? |
His plan is to have a plan, duh. 
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:17 am |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | TrekkieMage wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: |
And TrekkieMage, you are right, now that I think about it. Both candidates slander each other, it just so happens that Kerry does it more. |
Thank you, and they do, it's just a perception as to who does it more.
And just to point out a small factoid: I looked at both of the canidates sites, and Bush has that Kerry media center thingie that is just to point out Kerry's percieved inaccuricies.
The Kerry site doesn't have anything like that.
Just a small point |
I don't see what your point is. Is it that it's BAD to have information about Kerry's record? Huh? |
Em, it's slandering Kerry, duh! 
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:12 pm |
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| Mikado wrote: | | Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | | And both candidates slander each other. It's not hard to sit there and critisize Kerry, but Bush's record isn't any better. |
Mn, yes. But my main problem with Kerry, is that he spends all of his time bashing Bush. And I still don't know what his plan for the country is.
So, asking in a non-sarcastic manner. And anyone that knows me, knows how hard that is for me.. What is Kerry's plan? |
"I have a plan...and my plan is better!" -John Kerry. (On one of the days he neglected to explain this elaborate plan It sounded so juvenille...you had to laugh...)
Actually, he supposedly *has* a plan. To be fair, I went to his website, as he instructed during the debate where he only directed us to his website, rather than explain himself. (RM, don't kill me ) http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/national_security/ <--plan for national security. There's a whole list of "plans" on his website. I personally found it rather loose, and not especially grand. I somehow doubt he's going to get our "allies" together, or that he's man enough to keep us fighting this war, with all his anti-war record. (What're we going to do? Buy France? Out-bid what Saddam paid Chirac and his cronies? Heh.) His education plan REALLY bugs me. "3.5 million after-school programs with 'School's Open 'til 6.'" I'm all for extracurricular activity, but send the kids to boarding school if you want to get rid of 'em from 8am-6pm. Nyeh. And on the economy-- "And when John Kerry puts forward a new idea, he'll tell you how he's going to pay for it. " I'd like to know how he pays for the trillions of dollars in new spending. I really, really would.
Bush's "plans", or agenda, is here-- http://www.georgewbush.com/Agenda/Chapter.aspx?ID=1#ed
| Quote: | Thank you, and they do, it's just a perception as to who does it more.
And just to point out a small factoid: I looked at both of the canidates sites, and Bush has that Kerry media center thingie that is just to point out Kerry's percieved inaccuricies.
The Kerry site doesn't have anything like that.
Just a small point |
Actually, he does. http://blog.johnkerry.com/rapidresponse/all.html Entirely Anti-Bush, with "analysis" (*HEH*) to Bush's record. And that is one DARN long list Kerry has, there.
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Not the doctor... yet
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Birdy
Socialist
Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Posts: 13502
Location: Here.
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| Wed Oct 27, 2004 4:27 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Oh, yeah, right. Fine, if those "facts" are good enough for you, then fine. But you know what? I know for a FACT that Bush didn't cheat, and that many of the sources that Moore cites in his books and movie, if you check them, turn out to be different. And it's the New York Times, too. But I know that Bush didn't cheat, and unless you can find more "evidence" than what is in Moore's book, I will not believe you. |
Did you check that yourself? Do you have a site where I can read it? I'm quite curious actually..!
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Oct 27, 2004 5:42 pm |
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| Jeremy wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | TrekkieMage wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: |
And TrekkieMage, you are right, now that I think about it. Both candidates slander each other, it just so happens that Kerry does it more. |
Thank you, and they do, it's just a perception as to who does it more.
And just to point out a small factoid: I looked at both of the canidates sites, and Bush has that Kerry media center thingie that is just to point out Kerry's percieved inaccuricies.
The Kerry site doesn't have anything like that.
Just a small point |
I don't see what your point is. Is it that it's BAD to have information about Kerry's record? Huh? |
Em, it's slandering Kerry, duh! |
NO, giving out someone's record is NOT slander! Slander is falsly attacking another, and Bush isn't doing that, nor am I, too Kerry.
| Exalya wrote: | | Mikado wrote: | | Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | | And both candidates slander each other. It's not hard to sit there and critisize Kerry, but Bush's record isn't any better. |
Mn, yes. But my main problem with Kerry, is that he spends all of his time bashing Bush. And I still don't know what his plan for the country is.
So, asking in a non-sarcastic manner. And anyone that knows me, knows how hard that is for me.. What is Kerry's plan? |
"I have a plan...and my plan is better!" -John Kerry. (On one of the days he neglected to explain this elaborate plan It sounded so juvenille...you had to laugh...)
Actually, he supposedly *has* a plan. To be fair, I went to his website, as he instructed during the debate where he only directed us to his website, rather than explain himself. (RM, don't kill me ) http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/national_security/ <--plan for national security. There's a whole list of "plans" on his website. I personally found it rather loose, and not especially grand. I somehow doubt he's going to get our "allies" together, or that he's man enough to keep us fighting this war, with all his anti-war record. (What're we going to do? Buy France? Out-bid what Saddam paid Chirac and his cronies? Heh.) His education plan REALLY bugs me. "3.5 million after-school programs with 'School's Open 'til 6.'" I'm all for extracurricular activity, but send the kids to boarding school if you want to get rid of 'em from 8am-6pm. Nyeh. And on the economy-- "And when John Kerry puts forward a new idea, he'll tell you how he's going to pay for it. " I'd like to know how he pays for the trillions of dollars in new spending. I really, really would.
Bush's "plans", or agenda, is here-- http://www.georgewbush.com/Agenda/Chapter.aspx?ID=1#ed
| Quote: | Thank you, and they do, it's just a perception as to who does it more.
And just to point out a small factoid: I looked at both of the canidates sites, and Bush has that Kerry media center thingie that is just to point out Kerry's percieved inaccuricies.
The Kerry site doesn't have anything like that.
Just a small point |
Actually, he does. http://blog.johnkerry.com/rapidresponse/all.html Entirely Anti-Bush, with "analysis" (*HEH*) to Bush's record. And that is one DARN long list Kerry has, there. |
Yeah, I'll give you that. He does have a "plan," but it's not elaborate, and he NEVER explains it.
| Belanna1985 wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | Oh, yeah, right. Fine, if those "facts" are good enough for you, then fine. But you know what? I know for a FACT that Bush didn't cheat, and that many of the sources that Moore cites in his books and movie, if you check them, turn out to be different. And it's the New York Times, too. But I know that Bush didn't cheat, and unless you can find more "evidence" than what is in Moore's book, I will not believe you. |
Did you check that yourself? Do you have a site where I can read it? I'm quite curious actually..! |
In his movie, for instance, he cites information on how much money is invested from the Saudis in the US. $860 billion, it says, and he cites the book House of Bush, House of Saud by a guy with the last name Ugner. In fact, the sources that Ugner cites (2) don't even SUPPORT that figure. It's all in "59 Deceits of Fahrenhyte 9/11." Moore is a liar on MANY fronts. Watch FahrenHYPE, too, and get the truth.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:04 pm |
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| Exalya wrote: |
| Quote: | Thank you, and they do, it's just a perception as to who does it more.
And just to point out a small factoid: I looked at both of the canidates sites, and Bush has that Kerry media center thingie that is just to point out Kerry's percieved inaccuricies.
The Kerry site doesn't have anything like that.
Just a small point |
Actually, he does. http://blog.johnkerry.com/rapidresponse/all.html Entirely Anti-Bush, with "analysis" (*HEH*) to Bush's record. And that is one DARN long list Kerry has, there. |
What I ment was that Bush had it on his quick links (left side of the page) quite obviously as info against Kerry. Kerry's isn't as obvious. It's listed as 'rapid response' as oposed to Bush's 'Kerry Media Center'.
Exalya: most of the money Kerry is proposing we spend comes from his tax system, which is reletively simple actually. Middle class taxes stay about where they are- people who earn $200,000 + will get taxed more.
An honest question: How is Bush planning on paying for this stuff? Last time I checked, the taxes Americans pay are the major source of revenue.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:06 pm |
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| TrekkieMage wrote: | | Exalya wrote: |
| Quote: | Thank you, and they do, it's just a perception as to who does it more.
And just to point out a small factoid: I looked at both of the canidates sites, and Bush has that Kerry media center thingie that is just to point out Kerry's percieved inaccuricies.
The Kerry site doesn't have anything like that.
Just a small point |
Actually, he does. http://blog.johnkerry.com/rapidresponse/all.html Entirely Anti-Bush, with "analysis" (*HEH*) to Bush's record. And that is one DARN long list Kerry has, there. |
What I ment was that Bush had it on his quick links (left side of the page) quite obviously as info against Kerry. Kerry's isn't as obvious. It's listed as 'rapid response' as oposed to Bush's 'Kerry Media Center'.
Exalya: most of the money Kerry is proposing we spend comes from his tax system, which is reletively simple actually. Middle class taxes stay about where they are- people who earn $200,000 + will get taxed more.
An honest question: How is Bush planning on paying for this stuff? Last time I checked, the taxes Americans pay are the major source of revenue. |
1. Kerry's tax cuts for the "rich" are NOT sufficient! They can't pay off the deficit AND do all the things he wants!
2. There are other ways than taxing people when you don't have an elaborate spending plan and don't want universal heathcare 
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:30 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: |
1. Kerry's tax cuts for the "rich" are NOT sufficient! They can't pay off the deficit AND do all the things he wants!
2. There are other ways than taxing people when you don't have an elaborate spending plan and don't want universal heathcare |
1. They aren't tax cuts. Those tend to take money away from the US. Kerry is also not going to hand out tax cuts to everyone. And he's going to try and fix most of our loopholes in the tax system.
2. So how is Bush going to decrease spending on the War? So far Bush has one of the largest defecits in US history.
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:43 pm |
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I don't see how it's at all fair to give tax cuts to only certain groups of people, no matter who those groups may be.
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:47 pm |
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It may not be completly fair Intrepid, but according to some survey's, the majority of people earning that much money are comfortable paying more taxes.
It's not that he's not giving them tax cuts, just they would need to pay proportionally heavier taxes.
We are in a war, and we need to more on the homefront to help.
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:53 pm |
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| TrekkieMage wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: |
1. Kerry's tax cuts for the "rich" are NOT sufficient! They can't pay off the deficit AND do all the things he wants!
2. There are other ways than taxing people when you don't have an elaborate spending plan and don't want universal heathcare |
1. They aren't tax cuts. Those tend to take money away from the US. Kerry is also not going to hand out tax cuts to everyone. And he's going to try and fix most of our loopholes in the tax system.
2. So how is Bush going to decrease spending on the War? So far Bush has one of the largest defecits in US history. |
By taxing the rich more, (And no, $200,000 isn't that rich. If you live in San Fransisco, that's not much.) you're NOT going to suddenly come across 2 trillion dollars in revenue! Can't be done. And the "rich" take care of more tax burden than any group of people. You shouldn't be punished for being prosperous. The "middle class" doesn't do so bad in this country. Thanks to the tax credit, my mother actually makes money doing her taxes. I would almost be inclined to call that unfair, however, I wouldn't argue with money that we need.
Deficit spending, some economists say, is actually good. (Can you believe that? This comes from my LIBERAL Political Science proffessor) We're essentially borrowing from ourselves. Theoretically, there is a limit to how much you can borrow. This is ONLY theoretical. And 87 Billion dollars...even looked at the budget? Military Spending has NOT increased under Bush by more than one percent, if that! WE HAVE A 2.3 TRILLION DOLLAR BUDGET! 87 billion is hardly a dent. It's a lot of money, yes. But not nearly as much as they'd like you to think. What do we spend the most on? Medicare and Social Security. BIG time spending, there. The deficit should be taken under control, yes. However, it's not all as bad as some would have you believe.
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:55 pm |
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Well, he can tax his wife all he wants, 
Most people who are wealthy, work harder than people who aren't, for what they have. I don't mean to say that people who aren't wealthy are lazy, just that people who are work longer, harder hours, etc (most of the time).
Seems silly to target them to pay more taxes. They may be comfortable with paying more tax, but I don't see why they should. You're already heavily taxed based on how much you make.
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Superman
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 06 Dec 2003
Posts: 10220
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| Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:58 pm |
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| Quote: | Most people who are wealthy, work harder than people who aren't, for what they have. I don't mean to say that people who aren't wealthy are lazy, just that people who are work longer, harder hours, etc (most of the time).
Seems silly to target them to pay more taxes. They may be comfortable with paying more tax, but I don't see why they should. You're already heavily taxed based on how much you make. |
I don't want to go off-topic but let me just say that I agree with that. But, most interestingly, the stuff I am reading about taxes and tax cuts mirrors many discussions that we have here in Britain.
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:59 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | Well, he can tax his wife all he wants,
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*heh-heh-heh* And we all wonder where the rest of her tax records are, and what they say. Let's see...how much did Mrs. Heinz-Kerry pay? Oh, yeah. 12%. How much do other people of her status pay? Oh, right. 30%. HM. That's great for a future first lady hopeful.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:39 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | I don't see how it's at all fair to give tax cuts to only certain groups of people, no matter who those groups may be. |
I agree, and Bush did NOT do that! 109 million people (THOSE WITH LESS THAN $200,000 GOT TAX CUTS!)
| Exalya wrote: | | TrekkieMage wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: |
1. Kerry's tax cuts for the "rich" are NOT sufficient! They can't pay off the deficit AND do all the things he wants!
2. There are other ways than taxing people when you don't have an elaborate spending plan and don't want universal heathcare |
1. They aren't tax cuts. Those tend to take money away from the US. Kerry is also not going to hand out tax cuts to everyone. And he's going to try and fix most of our loopholes in the tax system.
2. So how is Bush going to decrease spending on the War? So far Bush has one of the largest defecits in US history. |
By taxing the rich more, (And no, $200,000 isn't that rich. If you live in San Fransisco, that's not much.) you're NOT going to suddenly come across 2 trillion dollars in revenue! Can't be done. And the "rich" take care of more tax burden than any group of people. You shouldn't be punished for being prosperous. The "middle class" doesn't do so bad in this country. Thanks to the tax credit, my mother actually makes money doing her taxes. I would almost be inclined to call that unfair, however, I wouldn't argue with money that we need.
EXACTLY! The "rich," except for Kerry & his wife (who pay 12.4% in taxes, while middle class people pay more than 18%), pay around 40% in taxes, and if you live in certain areas, money is no object! Things are EXPENSIVE. WHY should some "rich" person have to give away their money for being prosperous?
Deficit spending, some economists say, is actually good. (Can you believe that? This comes from my LIBERAL Political Science proffessor) We're essentially borrowing from ourselves. Theoretically, there is a limit to how much you can borrow. This is ONLY theoretical. And 87 Billion dollars...even looked at the budget? Military Spending has NOT increased under Bush by more than one percent, if that! WE HAVE A 2.3 TRILLION DOLLAR BUDGET! 87 billion is hardly a dent. It's a lot of money, yes. But not nearly as much as they'd like you to think. What do we spend the most on? Medicare and Social Security. BIG time spending, there. The deficit should be taken under control, yes. However, it's not all as bad as some would have you believe. |
Hmmm....Good point.
| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | Well, he can tax his wife all he wants,
Most people who are wealthy, work harder than people who aren't, for what they have. I don't mean to say that people who aren't wealthy are lazy, just that people who are work longer, harder hours, etc (most of the time).
Seems silly to target them to pay more taxes. They may be comfortable with paying more tax, but I don't see why they should. You're already heavily taxed based on how much you make. |
EXACTLY.
| Exalya wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | Well, he can tax his wife all he wants,
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*heh-heh-heh* And we all wonder where the rest of her tax records are, and what they say. Let's see...how much did Mrs. Heinz-Kerry pay? Oh, yeah. 12%. How much do other people of her status pay? Oh, right. 30%. HM. That's great for a future first lady hopeful. |
Actually, it's 12.4%. And her status pays around 40%. Get your facts right Perhaps THAT'S why it took her so long to release her tax returns? Why it seems like Senator Flip Flop and Mrs. Theresa Heinz "You stupid idiot scumbag, you should just shove it because you want four more years of hell" (not my own words, I just added some to put it all into a sentence) Kerry are cheating the system!
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Thu Oct 28, 2004 8:50 am |
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Just a quick point. If you tax the rich more, then after a point they'll just go and move country. So you my be taxing them more, but you'll be taxing less people and so get about the same amount in total.
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