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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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 Mon May 29, 2006 1:07 am |
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There are other ways to do it. Putting the national guard on the border, even without using weapons when not necessary, and building a wall/fense would, in conjunction with more border agents and technology, stop the problem with regards to securing the border.
There are much more humane methods than tazering them or shooting them. Plus law enforcement on the homefront, with regards to employment, are imperative as well.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Mon May 29, 2006 1:08 am |
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| Jeff Miller wrote: | | Founder wrote: | | "our"? Who is "our"? I don't believe you did anything for this country other then be born in it. Stop acting like you own it or speak for it, because America isn't in that bad of a position. Take jobs of honest american hands? What? What jobs do they have that honest amercans want? |
Before you start assuming ask questions!. I work 40 plus hours a week that makes it my right to speak up about it. INS came in last month and rounded up a good amount of Illigals. Those people took jobs out of peoples hands who needed them.
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lmaooooooooo
You work, like nearly everyone else, and think that gives you a right to say you did something for this country? The only thing you did was come off welfare.
And don't yell at Andy. Do learn some control.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Mon May 29, 2006 1:09 am |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | It depends, actually. Technically they broke the law by coming in here, and they are here illegally and should therefore face some sort of punishment for their criminal acts. However, very few are deported in America, even though it's really what they're pretty much supposed to do, if that makes much sense. |
It makes total sense.
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Mon May 29, 2006 1:10 am |
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| Theresa wrote: | | Jeff Miller wrote: | | Founder wrote: | | "our"? Who is "our"? I don't believe you did anything for this country other then be born in it. Stop acting like you own it or speak for it, because America isn't in that bad of a position. Take jobs of honest american hands? What? What jobs do they have that honest amercans want? |
Before you start assuming ask questions!. I work 40 plus hours a week that makes it my right to speak up about it. INS came in last month and rounded up a good amount of Illigals. Those people took jobs out of peoples hands who needed them.
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lmaooooooooo
You work, like nearly everyone else, and think that gives you a right to say you did something for this country? The only thing you did was come off welfare.
And don't yell at Andy. Do learn some control. |
For your info I was never on Welfare isn't that for people with Kids? oh and I'm sorry Andy.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Mon May 29, 2006 1:13 am |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | Alright, first of all, I am amazed that Jeff Miller, whom I've always known to be a committed liberal, is taking a hard-line conservative stance. But that fact that he's taking such a hard-line conservative stance.
I agree with Founder on that one, for once. Shooting them at the border isn't the answer. As a matter of fact, that's the wrong way to go. It makes us a huge tyrant, one which we should not, and cannot afford to, be.
That being said, we do need stronger border security and, as Theresa said, it's a shame that it's come to this, the need to build a fence on private land to protect private property. Really shows you just how well our government has been doing its job. |
Please don't say that, because that is absolutely not true. Conservatives and Liberals alike are against this illegal immigration stuff. Jeff Miller is a Liberal and he wants to shoot them. Link another hardcore Liberal once said that he wants to round them up and send them back. Liberals have been saying really disturbing things, just like the conservatives.
The reason Liberals aren't as vocal is because of fear of losing votes. Plain and simple. This is a lose lose situation for them. If they speak out against illegal immigration, then Hispanics and others will not vote for them anymore. If they say theyare for it, Conservatives will tear them apart for supporting open borders. Why do you think on average, Liberals have been rather quiet about this mess? They're fearful of upseting anyone. The ones that have been vocal are the Liberals that simply want to kill immigrants or round them up. Which BTW, I think Liberals have been rather cowardly on this subject.
| Quote: | | Before you start assuming ask questions!. I work 40 plus hours a week that makes it my right to speak up about it. INS came in last month and rounded up a good amount of Illigals. Those people took jobs out of peoples hands who needed them. |
That means very little. They work that many hours, if not more. Not to mention, most Americans work that much. You're no different. So that doesn't make you some patriot.
| Quote: | | Proven it? How? just by saying they are good people? that doesn't prove anything all I'm asking is that they enter this country legally. It isn't that hard. |
No, they've proven it by working. 
Have you ever stopped to think that maybe getting into this country legally is not as simplistic as you make it out to be?
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Mon May 29, 2006 1:14 am |
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| Jeff Miller wrote: | | Theresa wrote: | | Jeff Miller wrote: | | Founder wrote: | | "our"? Who is "our"? I don't believe you did anything for this country other then be born in it. Stop acting like you own it or speak for it, because America isn't in that bad of a position. Take jobs of honest american hands? What? What jobs do they have that honest amercans want? |
Before you start assuming ask questions!. I work 40 plus hours a week that makes it my right to speak up about it. INS came in last month and rounded up a good amount of Illigals. Those people took jobs out of peoples hands who needed them.
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lmaooooooooo
You work, like nearly everyone else, and think that gives you a right to say you did something for this country? The only thing you did was come off welfare.
And don't yell at Andy. Do learn some control. |
For your info I was never on Welfare isn't that for people with Kids? oh and I'm sorry Andy. |
No. It's not. It includes the state aid that you recieved before you became "employed".
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Mon May 29, 2006 1:14 am |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | There are other ways to do it. Putting the national guard on the border, even without using weapons when not necessary, and building a wall/fense would, in conjunction with more border agents and technology, stop the problem with regards to securing the border.
There are much more humane methods than tazering them or shooting them. Plus law enforcement on the homefront, with regards to employment, are imperative as well. |
your right There are other ways but I doubt they would just sit idoly by with a wall between them and us. We should atleast protect the wall if they try to damage it. If not lethal than some form of safe alternatives. Been playing the Tom Clancy Splinter Cell games. Alot of intresting none Lethal Weapons in that game.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Mon May 29, 2006 1:15 am |
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| Jeff Miller wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | There are other ways to do it. Putting the national guard on the border, even without using weapons when not necessary, and building a wall/fense would, in conjunction with more border agents and technology, stop the problem with regards to securing the border.
There are much more humane methods than tazering them or shooting them. Plus law enforcement on the homefront, with regards to employment, are imperative as well. |
your right There are other ways but I doubt they would just sit idoly by with a wall between them and us. We should atleast protect the wall if they try to damage it. If not lethal than some form of safe alternatives. Been playing the Tom Clancy Splinter Cell games. Alot of intresting none Lethal Weapons in that game. |
Too bad reality isn't a game, and human lives are at stake. Though, since we'd be "just shooting them", we don't seem to care.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Mon May 29, 2006 1:18 am |
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| Theresa wrote: | | Jeff Miller wrote: | | Theresa wrote: | | Jeff Miller wrote: | | Founder wrote: | | "our"? Who is "our"? I don't believe you did anything for this country other then be born in it. Stop acting like you own it or speak for it, because America isn't in that bad of a position. Take jobs of honest american hands? What? What jobs do they have that honest amercans want? |
Before you start assuming ask questions!. I work 40 plus hours a week that makes it my right to speak up about it. INS came in last month and rounded up a good amount of Illigals. Those people took jobs out of peoples hands who needed them.
|
lmaooooooooo
You work, like nearly everyone else, and think that gives you a right to say you did something for this country? The only thing you did was come off welfare.
And don't yell at Andy. Do learn some control. |
For your info I was never on Welfare isn't that for people with Kids? oh and I'm sorry Andy. |
No. It's not. It includes the state aid that you recieved before you became "employed". |
Um, Welfair is mainly cash whereas Foodstamps is none Cash I'll admit I was on food stamps. lets see 3 months. I got 37.50. less than $115 I didn't want to starve so I busted my butt and got a job.
And as for Founder all I want is them working legally what is there to hide by not registering? As RM said earlier most of them aren't Deported.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon May 29, 2006 1:21 am |
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| Founder wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | Alright, first of all, I am amazed that Jeff Miller, whom I've always known to be a committed liberal, is taking a hard-line conservative stance. But that fact that he's taking such a hard-line conservative stance.
I agree with Founder on that one, for once. Shooting them at the border isn't the answer. As a matter of fact, that's the wrong way to go. It makes us a huge tyrant, one which we should not, and cannot afford to, be.
That being said, we do need stronger border security and, as Theresa said, it's a shame that it's come to this, the need to build a fence on private land to protect private property. Really shows you just how well our government has been doing its job. |
Please don't say that, because that is absolutely not true. Conservatives and Liberals alike are against this illegal immigration stuff. Jeff Miller is a Liberal and he wants to shoot them. Link another hardcore Liberal once said that he wants to round them up and send them back. Liberals have been saying really disturbing things, just like the conservatives.
The reason Liberals aren't as vocal is because of fear of losing votes. Plain and simple. This is a lose lose situation for them. If they speak out against illegal immigration, then Hispanics and others will not vote for them anymore. If they say theyare for it, Conservatives will tear them apart for supporting open borders. Why do you think on average, Liberals have been rather quiet about this mess? They're fearful of upseting anyone. The ones that have been vocal are the Liberals that simply want to kill immigrants or round them up. Which BTW, I think Liberals have been rather cowardly on this subject. |
Actually, Andy, I think you have this all wrong. Most liberals are pro-illegal immigrants. Yes, it is primarily for votes, but they are pro-illegals. The Democratic party at its core is pro-illegal immigration. That is why you don't see most liberals taking a hard stance on this, though those that are big union people do take a more conservative stance on this issue. And yes, I do say conservative, because it is the conservative stance to cut back on illegal immigration, secure our borders, and whatnot. Anyone who has that position has a conservative position on their side.
The Republican party, however, is weak on this issue because of their attraction to cheap labor, plain and simple. It's all politics because of this idiotic lust of theirs. It's all politics for both parties, though, as few seem to genuinly care about the national security implications of this issue, regardless of party. So in that sense I do agree with you, I suppose. Though, mind you, liberals = essentially pro-illegal immigration (and not merely for votes; that's the Democratic party; I know many liberals who are pro-illegal immigration, essentially, and it has NOTHING to do with politics) and Conservaties = pro-border security and law enforcement.
But this is getting way off topic...
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Mon May 29, 2006 1:23 am |
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| Jeff Miller wrote: |
Um, Welfair is mainly cash whereas Foodstamps is none Cash I'll admit I was on food stamps. lets see 3 months. I got 37.50. less than $115 I didn't want to starve so I busted my butt and got a job.
And as for Founder all I want is them working legally what is there to hide by not registering? As RM said earlier most of them aren't Deported. |
Well, again, you are incorrect. But addressing this any further would take us even more drastically off topic.
"They rounded up a bunch of illegals"
"most of them aren't deported"
(both statements made by you)
So, what'd they do with them?
Last edited by Theresa on Mon May 29, 2006 1:24 am; edited 1 time in total
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Mon May 29, 2006 1:23 am |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | Actually, Andy, I think you have this all wrong. Most liberals are pro-illegal immigrants. Yes, it is primarily for votes, but they are pro-illegals. The Democratic party at its core is pro-illegal immigration. That is why you don't see most liberals taking a hard stance on this, though those that are big union people do take a more conservative stance on this issue. And yes, I do say conservative, because it is the conservative stance to cut back on illegal immigration, secure our borders, and whatnot. Anyone who has that position has a conservative position on their side.
The Republican party, however, is weak on this issue because of their attraction to cheap labor, plain and simple. It's all politics because of this idiotic lust of theirs. It's all politics for both parties, though, as few seem to genuinly care about the national security implications of this issue, regardless of party. So in that sense I do agree with you, I suppose. Though, mind you, liberals = essentially pro-illegal immigration (and not merely for votes; that's the Democratic party; I know many liberals who are pro-illegal immigration, essentially, and it has NOTHING to do with politics) and Conservaties = pro-border security and law enforcement.
But this is getting way off topic... |
I don't agree and I've seen otherwise. But that is off topic.
| Quote: | | And as for Founder all I want is them working legally what is there to hide by not registering? As RM said earlier most of them aren't Deported. |
I've already said, entering this country is HARD. It isn't as easy as you make it out to be.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon May 29, 2006 1:24 am |
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Catch and release is what they do with them, Theresa. They catch them at the border, they release them. And only 1/5 of illegal immigrants are apprehended, the patrol admits; however, field agents state that the apprehensions are significantly lower.
Most illegals within this country, however, stay in this country because of the lack of enforcement.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Mon May 29, 2006 1:32 am |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | Catch and release is what they do with them, Theresa. They catch them at the border, they release them. And only 1/5 of illegal immigrants are apprehended, the patrol admits; however, field agents state that the apprehensions are significantly lower.
Most illegals within this country, however, stay in this country because of the lack of enforcement. |
I wasn't referring to catching them at the border, but thanks anyway.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon May 29, 2006 1:33 am |
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Alrighty. Well, the latter answered that question. Most that are here illegally manage to evade the system, and those that are caught are deported or put into jail (though I don't know exactly what happens) unless they are in a sanctuary city. But the problem is, the enforcement within the country is so laxed that we can pretty much say that there is none, or almost none.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Mon May 29, 2006 1:35 am |
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| Jeff Miller wrote: | | INS came in last month and rounded up a good amount of Illigals. Those people took jobs out of peoples hands who needed them. |
That's more of the quote by Jeff I was referring to, if that helps.
Anyway, I'm off to bed now. 'Night.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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