Thousands Mark 33 Years Since Roe V. Wade

Republican_Man · **Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:59 pm**

Theresa, I never changed my mind there. I still think that the mother should be willing to give up her life for the child, but at the same time I do think that there should be a choice in that instance. She should rule on the side of life (her and her husband, that is), IMO, yet still, in that instance, have the choice.
But, as I said, I'm still iffy on most of those things. I'm at a crossroads on certain issues where I'm bombarded by so many arguments and bound by the idea of not being so radically conservative, but being open to other ideas as well and not so stickling about my personal beliefs and legislation of morality--and have yet to completely decide on a number of issues.

I agree that abortion is wrong, and that Roe v. Wade should be overturned. I agree 100%. But at the same time I think there are/may be certain instances in which the woman should have the choice--but certain instances.
I'm not even close to decided on rape or incest (even though I personally believe in no).
The question arises, however, how far the government can legislate morality, and I think that there are certain instances in which abortion should be legal, up to a certain time period (I would say three months), and yet, in most others (Down's syndrome, don't want the child, etc) it shouldn't happen.

But the point also arises: RM, before that three-month mark, how can we tell if the mother's going to die?
Answer: Fact is, I don't know if they can or can't, and if they can't, all the better, because that would rule out the abortion. I just think that, even if they can't detect it that early, that should be an opportunity for choice.
Rape and incest: undecided. Good arguments, which I made in the past, are being made here.
Stillborn or HIGH chance of death upon birth, due to a traumatic disorder: I'm leaning towards yes.
Don't want the child: never.
Down's syndrome or something like that: never.

I'm far more anti-abortion than anything, and would NOT consider myself pro-abortion. I am NOT pro-murder. I just believe that there are certain instances in which the abortion may be justified.
But, as I said, I'm not made up in my mind yet, and don't know how long it will be until I am.

Either way, however, I personally believe that we should air on the side of life. ALWAYS. But to what extent should abortion be regulated by the government? To what extent should morality be legislated?
That's the key question, when it pertains to certain instances.

Puck · The Texan Joined: 05 Jan 2004 Posts: 5596

This is abortion. And I know you have said that abortion equals murder at least once before. Therefore, why don't we aks ourselves not how far should morality be legislated, but should murder ever be acceptable?

Theresa · **Tue Jan 24, 2006 12:19 am**

IMESHO, we can sit here and talk about this until our fingers fall off. (Was going to say "blue in the face, but, tss). After watching J lose her baby, and one of my friends go through the same. Another couple at church, their baby boy Ryan died of SIDS at about 4 months... I can't justify taking a babies life. I don't care if it's first, second or third trimester.
Call it a fetus, and embryo, whatever you want. What's it going to be when it's born? A human being. You can't kill what isn't alive.
Do I agree there may be a rare circumstance where taking the child may be the only option? Yes, of course. Nothing is 100%.
You can't have a broad spectrum opinion on such an issue as this. Is abortion wrong? Definitely. Are there situations where removing the baby would be a viable option? Yes. Like if there was a car accident, and the mother was dying, and the embryonic sac had been ruptured, and death was absolute, and taking the baby would save the mother. But again, this would be the extreme, the rare, not the "abortion pill popping" *beep* that keeps getting pregnant just to abort. There is a special place in hell for her.

As for the slight contradiction, please note my sig. TYVM.

Republican_Man · **Tue Jan 24, 2006 12:23 am**

Okay, then, Theresa. It doesn't seem like we really disagree on this issue.
Oh, and even though I believe that there are certain instances in which legally abortion shoudl be okay (although, again, I am personally opposed to it, in all instances), that doesn't mean that I don't believe that the unborn child isn't human life from the start, from conception. Only difference is, it's developing human life. But still human life.
I just think that in certain rare, extreme circumstances, it would legally be justified.
So, then, I don't disagree with you, Theresa.

Puck · The Texan Joined: 05 Jan 2004 Posts: 5596

Technically, what Theresa is saying about the car accident is not an abortion because the child is already dead.

Theresa · **Tue Jan 24, 2006 12:42 am**

You can say you can't bring religion into this, but since my beliefs are a part of me, it's impossible to leave them out. I rather like this song.

Artist Lyrics: Ray Boltz
Song Lyrics: What Was I Supposed To Be

Jesus walked upon the earth,
On the shores of Galilee,
He'd say to His disciples,
Let the little children come to me,
I wonder if up in heaven,
Do you suppose we'll see
little children asking
what was I supposed to be.
Chorus
What was I supposed to be,
What were my eyes supposed to see,
And why did I taste of death
before I even drew a breath,
Laid my head at my mother's breast,
to sleep.
Oh Jesus,
Chorus
Was I to be a prophet
used in the ministry,
A doctor who would find a cure
for some terrible disease,
Even if I'd been born imperfect
why couldn't my parents see,
That I'd have been made perfect
when you came back for me.
Oh Jesus
Chorus
Oh Jesus, what was I supposed to be,
Oh Jesus, what was I supposed to be.

And to make sure we don't overlook Kevins' question:

IntrepidIsMe · **Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:57 pm**

If the there is any chance at all that the child's mother is going to die, I wouldn't say that I or the law is anybody to say "You have to die for your child." Sure, you can say that they won't really know if the mother will die until after the birth, perhaps both will live. But in that case, you'd be gambling with somebody else's life. If the mother dies, who's fault is that? Society's. I'd say that that is just as much a murder as abortion. Of course as I said, every mother should be willing to give up their life for their child, but I'm not going to force that on anybody. Morals are subjective.

Republican_Man · **Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:54 pm**

I think I'm leaning towards absolutely NO abortion for rape and incest, as it would be murder; however if the child is stillborn or has a serious illness or the mother's life is in considerable danger, then it is not murder, because it could be for the better of the child that he/she doesn't have to live through something far worse than Down's or Klinefelter from birth, and would be that way for his/her entire life.
And if the mother's life is in danger, then it would not be murder because it's to save another life, even if that would be, IMO, selfish of the mother to do, and the mother should be willing to die for her child.
So, there. It's murder when you just don't want to have the baby, but under certain conditions, it's not.
Now, I still haven't fully decided, mind you, but that's what I'm leaning towards.

webtaz99 · **Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:09 pm**

Women should have the right to choose not to get pregnant.

I refuse to believe that any woman who chooses an abortion would not prefer to have never gotten pregnant to begin with.

And although I consider abortion to be murder, as long as birth control is not 100% perfect, abortions will happen. If we claim to be "civilized", why can't women choose not to conceive.

(And don't talk to me about "abstinence" and "precautions" - this is the real world. Precautions don't always work, and people don't always have them "on hand" when the time comes. That's life.)

Leo Wyatt · **Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:18 pm**

No woman should have no right to kill an innocent baby. She shouldn't open her legs to begin with. And for rape or life and death situations been there done that and didn't kill my baby. This world is just well been gone bad.. It won't change unless the people open their eyes up and stop the killing.

CJ Cregg · Commodore Joined: 05 Oct 2002 Posts: 1254

If people want an abortion, they will get one whether they are legal or not. if they are banned it just increases the risk of death and will probably create a whole black market for such things.

Now that doesn't mean that abortion shouldn't be limited. The US has one of the most liberal policies of any country in the world regarding abortion. 10-15 weeks limit is more than enough. 26 weeks is too much. Babies can survive at that age

TrekkieMage · **Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:55 pm**

^ Very true. Perhaps one of the biggest reasons I'm pro-choice isn't for moral reasons. If we were to outright ban abortion, women would do it anyways, and in the process get killed or be unable to ever have children agian. If you don't believe me, look up what would happen during the 60s and 70s that women have come forth and admitted. It's horrible. I'd much rather say that a doctor, who will be able to provide the right medical and psycologial aid, is allowed to preform abortions under appropriate situations than force it into the black market.

Republican_Man · **Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:06 pm**

I'll concede to you that there would be some back alley abortions, but I don't believe it's as big of a threat as your saying.
When the dems say it, I take it as far more fear-mongering than anything else.

TrekkieMage · **Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:17 pm**

It will be. I'm 90% sure of it. I'd rather not post much more specific information on the back alley stuff because it gets rather graphic quickly...

Leo Wyatt · **Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:04 pm**

Lets say I seen people are facing the consquences of abortion. Women don't think about what goes wrong when they murder an innocent baby. My sister had an abortion. She is paying for her sins now. She regrets it. I can say one thing about her, at least she has a conscience and feels bad about it.