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Seven of Nine
Sammie's Mammy


Joined: 16 Jun 2001
Posts: 7871
Location: North East England

PostSat Apr 30, 2005 11:55 am    

The problem I have with capitalism is that it encourages and enforces selfishness. Since I know that the communist ideal is very unlikely to work, I am leaning more towards a system of socialism, where those at the bottom of the ladder get what they work for, where people support one another when there's hardship, and where those who (normally through luck, connections, or family) are better off help those who are less well off. I don't like the restrictions that communism places (unintentionally) on the freedom of the individual, and I believe that political correctness goes too far in some areas.

Since I'll be voting in 5 days time, I guess I'm getting a chance to try and change how things are run (although my prediction is that things aren't going to change much at all on a national level, but on a local level it's possible we'll get a different MP, so I'm still voting).

Money shouldn't buy power, but unfortunately it does.


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Zeke Zabertini
Captain


Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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PostSat Apr 30, 2005 3:33 pm    

Seven of Nine wrote:
Money shouldn't buy power
That's one of my biggest problems with the U.S. system.

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Ithildin
Junior Cadet


Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 16

PostSat Apr 30, 2005 8:20 pm    

I agree. Capitalism in the united states is based solely on greed. People with money are above the law and those without seem to be disillusioned into thinking that the system is a good one.

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Founder
Dominion Leader


Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant

PostSat Apr 30, 2005 8:24 pm    

I'd rather have Captialism instead of Communism. A society which preaches no one can be more than they are. You have to be JUST like Frank, so get over it. Yeah, I'm sure so many advancements will be made with that kinda thinking. It almost seems like it was founded by people who are jealous of those in power. They are upset that they will never=them. Well guess what? Too bad. Bust your ass and work hard. You can accomplish a lot. If you want everything to be handed over to you like in a communist state, then do a little thing called A. Wake up or B. Move to Cuba/China/Laos/etc.

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webtaz99
Commodore


Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side

PostSat Apr 30, 2005 9:55 pm    

Zeke Zabertini wrote:
Seven of Nine wrote:
Money shouldn't buy power
That's one of my biggest problems with the U.S. system.


Why single out the US. Money buys power everywhere!



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"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)

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webtaz99
Commodore


Joined: 13 Nov 2003
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Location: The Other Side

PostSat Apr 30, 2005 10:00 pm    

Ithildin wrote:
I agree. Capitalism in the united states is based solely on greed. People with money are above the law and those without seem to be disillusioned into thinking that the system is a good one.


Even though I have serious problems with both "communism" and "capitalism" (both are merely words; euphemisms in fact), by pointing to 1) the average standard of living and 2) the ability for anyone to succeed, no matter their parentage, ethnicity, or whatever, "capitalism" is demonstrably a "better system" than "communism".



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"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)

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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative


Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified

PostSun May 01, 2005 12:14 pm    

webtaz99 wrote:
Ithildin wrote:
I agree. Capitalism in the united states is based solely on greed. People with money are above the law and those without seem to be disillusioned into thinking that the system is a good one.


Even though I have serious problems with both "communism" and "capitalism" (both are merely words; euphemisms in fact), by pointing to 1) the average standard of living and 2) the ability for anyone to succeed, no matter their parentage, ethnicity, or whatever, "capitalism" is demonstrably a "better system" than "communism".


You are right there.
But on Capitalism, it's never been successfully used PURE, but it's worked in the United States, and IMO, it's the best economic system.
But capitalism is NOT based soley on greed



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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews

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Zeke Zabertini
Captain


Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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PostSun May 01, 2005 2:38 pm    

No, capitalism is based on a very solid theorem of supply and demand. It works, but it creates huge divisions of income that are based in many cases only minimally on personal skill. Without outstanding regulation, which the United States has become quite good at over the years, it creates a large lower class, a midsized middle class, and a small upper class. Government programs should help to shrink the lower class and upper class to put more people in the middle class and provide opportunity for everyone to gain the skills they need to move upward.

Communism is a very poor system in reality, as it is virtually impossible to make everyone equal, and the process of attempting it usually makes everyone miserable. Not only that, but by its very nature it creates the ultimate upper class: the government; under which, democratic or not, the people are under total domination. Despite these fatal shortcomings, the prospect of giving people true equality is, I must admit, an attractive one, if in the end only destructive to society.

In any case, since to my knowledge nobody here is preaching capitalism or communism as a pure form, let's not be taking sides on it. Both can and do work effectively and at least partially fairly when toned down with appropriate regulation (or deregulation, as the case may be).


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webtaz99
Commodore


Joined: 13 Nov 2003
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PostMon May 02, 2005 7:38 am    

Every human being wants a "better life", whether that means self-improvement, more material things, a better future for their family, or whatever. This is diametrically opposed to the concept of universal equality.


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"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)

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madlilnerd
Duchess of Dancemat


Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 5885
Location: Slough, England

PostMon May 02, 2005 9:00 am    

That's because we're naturally greedy wasteful idiots

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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative


Joined: 26 Mar 2004
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PostMon May 02, 2005 4:32 pm    

madlilnerd wrote:
That's because we're naturally greedy wasteful idiots


Or...not.



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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostMon May 02, 2005 4:50 pm    

Republican_Man wrote:
madlilnerd wrote:
That's because we're naturally greedy wasteful idiots


Or...not.

The statement is generally correct, but inaccurate. I would postulate that we are naturally ambitious and shortsighted idiots.

Humans do want to get ahead in the world, it's the best way to survive: by being responsive to change and staying strong. Unfortunately, most of the time we tend to have a very narrow view of the consequences of our actions. Lastly, humans are and always shall be idiots (at least until we get over digital watches).


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Zeke Zabertini
Captain


Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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PostMon May 02, 2005 5:38 pm    

Hey, I like digital watches. They're much more multi-functioned than the analog clocks.

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madlilnerd
Duchess of Dancemat


Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 5885
Location: Slough, England

PostTue May 03, 2005 1:03 pm    

I've always had a problem telling time, so I don't really like watches full stop. When a person asks me what time it is, I don't read it out for fear of saying it wrong, I just shove my wrist in their face and tell them to read it themselves...
anywho... we are idiots. I used to have a badge on my bag that said "Save the planet: Kill yourself" but a really annoying teacher made me take it off so I annoyed them back by replacing it with "Establish world peace: kill everyone". Strangely enough, they let me wear the old one . I'm not sure how that proves we're idiots, but I felt I should say it. I had a bad morning today and now I have garbage spewing out of my brain and onto this site.

And as for getting ahead in the world, I'm incredibly flexible and adaptive and I overthink everything so often see the concequences of my actions. I


P.S Say no to waste! Say yes to Ravenism (that's a religion I invented where the basic moral rule was that waste is the highest crime. I can make that cover pretty much every other crime too )


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