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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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 Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:53 pm |
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Actually, I'll point out that communism isn't designed to deprive people of freedom, but rather render that freedom equal to everyone. Communism is a perfect system, just as democracy is a perfect system. The problem is humans, who aren't perfect. The truth is, we don't want to be equal, which is why communism doesn't work. Democracy works better than communism because its contradictory nature allows us to be both equal and competitive at the same time, but it still isn't ideal.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:56 pm |
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| Hitchhiker wrote: | | Actually, I'll point out that communism isn't designed to deprive people of freedom, but rather render that freedom equal to everyone. Communism is a perfect system, just as democracy is a perfect system. The problem is humans, who aren't perfect. The truth is, we don't want to be equal, which is why communism doesn't work. Democracy works better than communism because its contradictory nature allows us to be both equal and competitive at the same time, but it still isn't ideal. |
No, the fact that we don't want to be equal isn't why communism doesn't work. It's because in it you can't get ahead--as you say, there is no competativness in it. Sure, it's a fine system in THEORY, but there is NO WAY that it will EVER work in practice.
Anyways, back on topic: I HIGHLY recommend that everyone see Hype if they can!
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:00 pm |
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I'll be sure to see both Hype and Heit eventually. But probably not until the elections are long past, sadly.
And you and are I both saying the same things: humans want to be competitive, and "get ahead" because they strive to be better than others, ie unequal.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:01 pm |
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Actually, Hitchhiker, on why communism doesn't work, you may be right in some ways.
1. It is our WILL to be the best that drives us to be so competative, which brings us ahead, and yet Communism does not allow for that.
2. It is ALWAYS used in systems run by an evil dictator, but that's naturally what the Communist form of government is.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:07 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | lol, EXACTLY. Why do you have to beat me to the punch all the time now  ? |
Becuase he pissed me off.
Last edited by LightningBoy on Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mitt Romney for president 2008!
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Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
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| Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:13 pm |
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I pissed you off? Holy crap dude...holy crap.
Last edited by Defiant on Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:16 pm |
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Strike two.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:18 pm |
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Alright, let's end this fued and get back to the topic at hand, shall we? 
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
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| Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:20 pm |
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| LightningBoy wrote: | | Strike two. |
Excuse me?
A mod you are not.
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Zeke Zabertini
Captain
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 4832
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| Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:20 pm |
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Oh dear. Let's not start going for one anothers' throats now....
The trouble with the "truth" is that it's different for everyone. You can give people facts, but it's up to them to interpret the facts and make an opinion that is, in turn, that person's definition of the truth. I mean hell, even "facts" come into dispute. Not too long ago it was a "fact" that the world was flat and that all women should be housewives, not to mention a lot of other things that we dismiss as false or misguided these days.
...And about communism.... Let's not knock what we don't understand, yes? You don't have to be a capitalist to like freedom.
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Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
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| Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:22 pm |
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Some facts are black and white. Right and wrong. There can be no interpretation of certain things, and this guy tries to push off the wrong side as right. I live in Oregon, I know whats going on. LB only says what he saw in a movie, that does not make it true.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:22 pm |
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| Zeke Zabertini wrote: | | ...And about communism.... Let's not knock what we don't understand, yes? You don't have to be a capitalist to like freedom. |
I didn't say that those that WERE in communist country don't want freedom, but that the LEADERS of it don't want freedom.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:23 pm |
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Indeed . . . besides the fact that RM and I are quibbling over semantics
Oh, and fascism (which closely resembles communism) is many dictators' government system of choice.
"So buy your fascist government online today at Govbay.ca! For just a simple payment of $4.99, you can get the Fascist Government for Dummies package, which includes the award winning game show 'Who Wants to be a Fascist Dictator' on CD-ROM! Order within the next seven seconds and receive Torture for Dummies free of charge!" 
Last edited by Hitchhiker on Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:23 pm |
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| Defiant wrote: | | LightningBoy wrote: | | Strike two. |
Excuse me?
A mod you are not. |
Did I claim that? I'm saying that you've pissed me off twice now. That's two personal strikes against me.
Just like any other liberal you're spinning like a tilt-a-whirl.
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:25 pm |
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| Hitchhiker wrote: | Indeed . . . besides the fact that RM and I are quibbling over semantics
Oh, and fascism (which closely resembles communism) is many dictators' government system of choice. |
Just as a side note, Hitchhiker, I like you. Though I disagree with you, more often than I agree with you; I respect your opinion, and you are a good debator. 
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:27 pm |
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^There is something called a "Private Message". I suggest yall use it, there are other people on this site and it is kind of sick that yall are using it to attack each other. Imagine if a new user were to come on and this were the first thing they saw...not very welcoming is it.
As for communism, it is immpossible for any country to endure under that kind of rule for too long. And gosh...farenheit 9/11...let people watch it...let them do whatever they want...it was a while back and guess what...despite it, Bush is leading the polls. Obviously not a big effect on the election.
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Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
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| Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:28 pm |
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| LightningBoy wrote: | | Defiant wrote: | | LightningBoy wrote: | | Strike two. |
Excuse me?
A mod you are not. |
Did I claim that? I'm saying that you've pissed me off twice now. That's two personal strikes against me.
Just like any other liberal you're spinning like a tilt-a-whirl. |
I spin nothing. I spit the truth. And I find it rather amusing that you find the truth so maddening.
Also, what do I care if I have personal strikes against you? I dont like you. You try to debate, and you cant. You pass off lies as truth. You are basically RM, without the intelligence or occasional clear mindedness. You are the worst kind of Republican.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:30 pm |
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| Defiant wrote: | | LightningBoy wrote: | | Defiant wrote: | | LightningBoy wrote: | | Strike two. |
Excuse me?
A mod you are not. |
Did I claim that? I'm saying that you've pissed me off twice now. That's two personal strikes against me.
Just like any other liberal you're spinning like a tilt-a-whirl. |
I spin nothing. I spit the truth. And I find it rather amusing that you find the truth so maddening.
Also, what do I care if I have personal strikes against you? I dont like you. You try to debate, and you cant. You pass off lies as truth. You are basically RM, without the intelligence or occasional clear mindedness. You are the worst kind of Republican. |
1. You don't spin! And he "find[s] the truth so maddening!" My GOSH! You're the one who's denying that Fahrenheit is false and full of lies, which it IS!
2. STOP THESE PERSONAL ATTACKS! I have NOT said that type of thing to you, Defiant, so STOP IT. And you are wrong about LightningBoy. He is a GOOD debater.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:32 pm |
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You know what. I'm going to let it end here. I just want to point out which side of this debate started and threw the most personal attacks, and continues to.
If you are going to call what you've said "the truth" than you've already mislead yourself too far to recover. Say what you want, i'm done, and everyone else can draw their own conclusions.
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Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
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| Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:43 pm |
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RM, I never insulted you. If anything, I complimented you, by saying youre intelligent.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:48 pm |
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| Defiant wrote: | | RM, I never insulted you. If anything, I complimented you, by saying youre intelligent. |
Well, look at it this way:
| Quote: | | Also, what do I care if I have personal strikes against you? I dont like you. You try to debate, and you cant. You pass off lies as truth. You are basically RM, without the intelligence or occasional clear mindedness. You are the worst kind of Republican. |
You insult me by saying that I lie and don't want to admit the truth, and tell him that he's "basically [me]." You just added in the other two things. THAT, my friend, is an insult.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:49 pm |
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Had to add this in from the "Scare Tactics" discussion.
| Quote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | Defiant wrote: | | LB wrote: | | He didn't say you used Moore's "facts", he compared you to Moore. Probably, because you both have no respect for anything. |
I have no respect for anything? Wow. You dont read well, do you? Even by your own logic, I have respect for democrats and evil things.
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Sadam Hussein is those baby snakes. He may not have the power to hurt us now, but we know he wants to, and as the president of a nation which has billions of dollars to fund his vendetta, he will someday have that power. We need to stop him NOW. We shouldn't wait for him to kill any of us first. |
Seriously now, Saddam never attacked us. He never threatened to attack us. He didnt have weapons, his weapons program had ended, and he didnt do anything to us. He didnt harbor terrorists. He didnt help terrorism. He had no hand in the attack on 9/11. Yet we still felt the need to attack him. |
1. He DOES read well, you filthy-- ::Refrains from everything more::
2. You are WRONG. That is a LIE, Deceit, and Distortion that he never threatened to attack us. To quote the "59 Deceits in Fahrenheit 911" Report by David Kopel:
"41: MOore claims that the Saddam regime 'neveer threatened to attack the United States." In fact, in 1997 the regime publicly ordered: 'American and British intersts, embassies, and naval ships in the Arab region should be the targets of military operations and commando attacks by Arab political forces.' On the first anniversary of Spetember 11th, Saddam's regime called for suicide attacks on Americans." WRONG.
3. | Quote: | | Seriously now, Saddam never attacked us. |
Do we REALLY have to wait for him to attack us? If you think that we have to be attacked to go to war, than you are CRAZY. I thank God that you're not President.
4. We THOUGHT he had weapons. ALL intel pointed to that. We HAD to act.
5. | Quote: | | He didnt help terrorism. He had no hand in the attack on 9/11. Yet we still felt the need to attack him. |
As Ted Kennedy stated, "Lie after Lie after Lie."
Here's the truth:
He DID help terrorism.
To quote Kopel's report again:
"42. Moore claims that there was no connection between Iraq and al Qaeda. In fact, there is an extensive record of collaboration although--as the September 11 Commssion announced--there is no proof that Saddam participated beforehand in al Qaeda attacks on America."
He harbored terrorists like Zarqawi and gave them refuge. There were training camps in Iraq. How can you say that!!!?
And we HAD to attack him for defensive purposes.
Oh, and another quote from the Report:
"43: Fahrenheit shows Condoleezza Rice saying, 'Oh, indeed there is a tie between Iraq and what happend on 9/11.' The audience laughs derisively. Here is what Rice really said on Nov. 28, 2003:
'Oh, indeed there is a tie between Iraq and what happend on 9/11. It's not that Saddam Hussein was somehow himself and his regime involved in 9/11, but, if you think about what caused 9/11, it is the rise of ideologies of hatred that lead people to drive airplanes into buildings in New York. This is a great terrorist, international terrorist network that is determined to defeat freedom. It has perverted Islam from a peaceful religion into one in which they call on it for violence. And they're all linked. And Iraq is a central front because, if and when, and we will, we change the nature of Iraq to a place that is peaceful and democratic and prosperous in the heart of the Middle East, you will begin to change the Middle East..."
All true, and DO NOT LIE TO US![/quote]
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:44 am |
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Ok, Lightening Boy, Defiant, please do not post here in WN for 4 days now. If you have any discussion about this please PM me. Hopefully by that time you will calm down.
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