| Your opinion? |
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| Total Votes : 23 |
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gilbert3729
Commander
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Posts: 390
Location: New England, USA
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 Sun Aug 15, 2004 5:42 pm |
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| LightningBoy wrote: | | Quote: | | C'mon, civilization has gone through more unsettling things than gay marriage. Up until a few hundred years ago, we thought that we were the centre of the solar system! Then Copernicus pointed out that we weren't, he got charged with heresy, and eventually everyone apologized and accepted the heliocentric theory. |
But that was proven wrong, there is no use beleiving a lie. We're talking about moral and legal institutions.
just like that example, i think that eventually this whole controvercy will be looked upon as meaningless. People will see that homosexuals deserve the same rights as everyone else.
| Quote: | | Many institutions have changed, because change is necessary. Stability brings stagnancy, which brings destruction. Only through adversity, only through change, can humans evolve. Change may be good or bad, but it is still change. Slavery was an institution. But we changed it by abolishing it, and civilization is still around. |
Are you comparing the plight of slaves to Gay people?!?! Slaves were tortured, suffered, and stripped of everything because of nothing they did, only what they were. Gays choose to be open about their lifestyle. They can keep it quiet, then can choose NOT to be flamboyant. Sexuallity, gay or straight, should stay behind CLOSED DOORS anyway. Gay Marriage is not an attempt to bring things more equal, as slavery was, but instead it is an attempt to knock down the majority, to say that gays are allowed to redifinie terms simply becuase they don't like the fact that straight people have an establishment, and gays DO NOT.
i agree with you that gay people are not being abused as harshly as the slaves were, but it still is very bad. There are countless murders an beatings of gay people when they "come out of the closet." These gay people were beaten and killed because of nothing that they did, only what they were. To me, it's like society always has to oppress a group, and the gay culture is next. If you follow history it is easy to see that it has always been this way. sad, very sad. 
| Quote: | | Who is this society fellow and what is are they doing to help us anyway? Opinions change. Hundreds of years ago, science was heresy. But here we are, where science is accepted as fact most of the time. Civilization, so far, is okay, except for the fact that the entertainment industry has sold itself out to reality TV. |
Fine, want to follow opinions? Nearly 70% of Americans beleive that Gay Marriage is wrong. There's a good number right there. As for the state of civilization, I think it's appauling everywhere right now. People are losing freedoms to special interest groups like Gays, who are trying to tear down institutions because they have neither the leadership or the moral confidence to do so.
explain how people are loosing freedoms. Could it be that heterosexual freedoms appear to be decreasing because the gap between their rights and gay rights is shrinking? I dont know, but how are poeple loosing rights?
| Quote: | | As our understanding of the universe evolves, so do our opinions on civilization, and on permissibility. We went through stages where public homosexuality was not allowed, where public sexuality at all was not allowed, to a permissible stage where sexuality is now everywhere. |
Permiscuity leads to disease, emotional breakdown, and lack of values. One of the few ideals from the book "Brave New World" that I agreed with. Sex should stay in the bedroom, in a non-controlled environment, it's extremely corrupting.
i really have nohing to say about this. these are just your opinions, quite religious i may add, that you are pushing. |
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Sun Aug 15, 2004 5:57 pm |
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Theres nothing wrong with your religious beleifs being part of your argument regarding matters such as this. Religion often influences our idea of morality. And like was said before, for some, religion is more than something they do on Sunday, it is a part of them.
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Kyre
Commodore
Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 1263
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| Sun Aug 15, 2004 6:34 pm |
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| Theresa wrote: | | JanewayIsHott wrote: | | For goodness sakes just let the poor people marry. Is it harming anyone? I don't think so. Just let them marry. I don't think they should be allowed to have kids, but my gosh, what is sooooo terribly wrong about letting them marry? |
lol, so where do you draw the line? It's ok for them to do this, but not this. This may be ok, but certainly not this. You can't pick and choose. |
Yes you can. Getting married is a decision that affects the couple and noone else. Having kids brings in a new argument (what does a child go through at school when people know his/her parents are homosexuals?). I don't think any couples should subject a potential next of kin to that sort of abuse.
Just my opinion.
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Delta Quad 2003
Section 31 Guardian
Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 3164
Location: Earth
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| Sun Aug 15, 2004 6:36 pm |
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| Kyre wrote: | | Theresa wrote: | | JanewayIsHott wrote: | | For goodness sakes just let the poor people marry. Is it harming anyone? I don't think so. Just let them marry. I don't think they should be allowed to have kids, but my gosh, what is sooooo terribly wrong about letting them marry? |
lol, so where do you draw the line? It's ok for them to do this, but not this. This may be ok, but certainly not this. You can't pick and choose. |
Yes you can. Getting married is a decision that affects the couple and noone else. Having kids brings in a new argument (what does a child go through at school when people know his/her parents are homosexuals?). I don't think any couples should subject a potential next of kin to that sort of abuse.
Just my opinion. |
I have to agree with T. you can let them get married, but you cant say no kids or nothing like that. once they are married, there are certain laws that apply, and certain rights that no one can take away. You just can't pick and choose what they do. It is their life. you have to allow it all, or not allow it at all.
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gilbert3729
Commander
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Posts: 390
Location: New England, USA
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| Sun Aug 15, 2004 6:54 pm |
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| Kyre wrote: | | Theresa wrote: | | JanewayIsHott wrote: | | For goodness sakes just let the poor people marry. Is it harming anyone? I don't think so. Just let them marry. I don't think they should be allowed to have kids, but my gosh, what is sooooo terribly wrong about letting them marry? |
lol, so where do you draw the line? It's ok for them to do this, but not this. This may be ok, but certainly not this. You can't pick and choose. |
Yes you can. Getting married is a decision that affects the couple and noone else. Having kids brings in a new argument (what does a child go through at school when people know his/her parents are homosexuals?). I don't think any couples should subject a potential next of kin to that sort of abuse.
Just my opinion. |
as long as the child knows that he/she is loved then it really dosent matter what other people say. This is just like interracial marriages in the 60's (publicly it was not accepted, but people got over it and realized that it is perfectly normal). in a decade or so, people will realize that gay couples having children is just not a big deal, because it isnt a big deal. What is so wrong with people living their lives and being happy?
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:12 pm |
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Kids with homosexuals as parents are more likely to be abused, that's why.
I agree with Theresa, you can't pick and mix. If this kind of thing is to be ok then so should marriage between more than 2 people, and so on. If they all love each other what is wrong with it?
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Mon Aug 16, 2004 1:50 pm |
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Kids from non-traditional families are statistically more likely to comitt crime in the future, to make less money in life than someone from a traditional family, and to start their own traditional family in the future.
Children are genetically 'programed' to accept a mother and a father. The traditional family is best for children for a reason.
The breakdown of marriage is the breakdown of a key factor in 'the traditional family' which is a huge, highly productive part of society.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon Aug 16, 2004 2:15 pm |
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This is great! I'm amazed that THIS was the court that did it, but either way, the Mayor BROKE THE LAW because a resolution was already voted on by the people against it, and he broke the law.
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Mon Aug 16, 2004 3:41 pm |
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| Jeremy wrote: | | Kids with homosexuals as parents are more likely to be abused, that's why. |
No, actually. Children with homosexual parents are less likely to be abused. It's been proven.
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Mon Aug 16, 2004 3:46 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Jeremy wrote: | | Kids with homosexuals as parents are more likely to be abused, that's why. |
No, actually. Children with homosexual parents are less likely to be abused. It's been proven. |
I think he meant at school and places like that. It is probable that a child with homosexual parents would encounter more social stigma, but that still isn't a reason to disallow same-sex couples from having children.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon Aug 16, 2004 5:34 pm |
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| Hitchhiker wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Jeremy wrote: | | Kids with homosexuals as parents are more likely to be abused, that's why. |
No, actually. Children with homosexual parents are less likely to be abused. It's been proven. |
I think he meant at school and places like that. It is probable that a child with homosexual parents would encounter more social stigma, but that still isn't a reason to disallow same-sex couples from having children. |
Actually, it's part of it: The balancing of the family.
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:39 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Jeremy wrote: | | Kids with homosexuals as parents are more likely to be abused, that's why. |
No, actually. Children with homosexual parents are less likely to be abused. It's been proven. |
You'll find it's actually the opposite to what you say.
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:27 pm |
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| Quote: | | There is no legitimate scientific research connecting homosexuality and pedophilia. Sexual orientation (homosexual or heterosexual) is defined as an adult attraction to other adults. Pedophilia is defined as an adult sexual attraction or perversion to children.7 In a study of 269 cases of child sex abuse, only two offenders where found to be gay or lesbian. More relevant was the finding that of the cases involving molestation of a boy by a man, seventy-four percent of the men were or had been in a heterosexual relationship with the boys mother or another female relative. The conclusion was found that "a child's risk of being molested by his or her relative's heterosexual partner is over one hundred times greater than by someone who might be identifiable as being homosexual." |
That's from a USA Government Site: The US Department of Health and Human Services
http://naic.acf.hhs.gov/pubs/f_gay/f_gayb.cfm#eight
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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gilbert3729
Commander
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Posts: 390
Location: New England, USA
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| Fri Aug 20, 2004 1:18 am |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Hitchhiker wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Jeremy wrote: | | Kids with homosexuals as parents are more likely to be abused, that's why. |
No, actually. Children with homosexual parents are less likely to be abused. It's been proven. |
I think he meant at school and places like that. It is probable that a child with homosexual parents would encounter more social stigma, but that still isn't a reason to disallow same-sex couples from having children. |
Actually, it's part of it: The balancing of the family. |
How is it "balancing of a family." Just because a kid has two moms or two dads it dosent mean that their family isnt a loving environment (balanced). i think that it would actually be better for that child because he/she will grow up with an open mind about the world and the different types of people in it.
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:05 am |
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| gilbert3729 wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | Hitchhiker wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Jeremy wrote: | | Kids with homosexuals as parents are more likely to be abused, that's why. |
No, actually. Children with homosexual parents are less likely to be abused. It's been proven. |
I think he meant at school and places like that. It is probable that a child with homosexual parents would encounter more social stigma, but that still isn't a reason to disallow same-sex couples from having children. |
Actually, it's part of it: The balancing of the family. |
How is it "balancing of a family." Just because a kid has two moms or two dads it dosent mean that their family isnt a loving environment (balanced). i think that it would actually be better for that child because he/she will grow up with an open mind about the world and the different types of people in it. |
Open Mindedness only leads to your brain falling out. 
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:58 am |
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| gilbert3729 wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | Hitchhiker wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Jeremy wrote: | | Kids with homosexuals as parents are more likely to be abused, that's why. |
No, actually. Children with homosexual parents are less likely to be abused. It's been proven. |
I think he meant at school and places like that. It is probable that a child with homosexual parents would encounter more social stigma, but that still isn't a reason to disallow same-sex couples from having children. |
Actually, it's part of it: The balancing of the family. |
How is it "balancing of a family." Just because a kid has two moms or two dads it dosent mean that their family isnt a loving environment (balanced). i think that it would actually be better for that child because he/she will grow up with an open mind about the world and the different types of people in it. |
You think it would be better!? Thats ridiculous. You can grow up with an open mind with a mother and father.
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gilbert3729
Commander
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Posts: 390
Location: New England, USA
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| Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:59 am |
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| Founder wrote: | | gilbert3729 wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | Hitchhiker wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Jeremy wrote: | | Kids with homosexuals as parents are more likely to be abused, that's why. |
No, actually. Children with homosexual parents are less likely to be abused. It's been proven. |
I think he meant at school and places like that. It is probable that a child with homosexual parents would encounter more social stigma, but that still isn't a reason to disallow same-sex couples from having children. |
Actually, it's part of it: The balancing of the family. |
How is it "balancing of a family." Just because a kid has two moms or two dads it dosent mean that their family isnt a loving environment (balanced). i think that it would actually be better for that child because he/she will grow up with an open mind about the world and the different types of people in it. |
You think it would be better!? Thats ridiculous. You can grow up with an open mind with a mother and father. |
Explain how it could be worse.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:05 am |
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I never said it would be worse. I just said that it would be ridiculous to assume they would learn better from Gay parents.
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Sonic74205
Rear Admiral
Joined: 01 Feb 2004
Posts: 4081
Location: England
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| Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:02 am |
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But it has been proven that gay people do make better parents though.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:14 am |
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Remember guys, this happened primarily because the MAYOR BROKE THE LAW. A resolution was voted on by the people, and the mayor chose to not obey that law, and that's what it was for. Otherwise, I'm sure the court would have voted in favor of it, but for those of you that say that it's bad, do you say that braking the law is GOOD?
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Fri Aug 20, 2004 12:17 pm |
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Unfortunately, I must agree. The mayor overstepped himself. There were people coming as far as from Europe to get married! The mayor doesn't have this kind of power, precisely because of the type of system we use. And although I'm all for gay marriage, it needs to be sought in the proper, bureaucratic, form-hugging way.
Now if you excuse me, I need to go fill this post out in triplicate. 
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Fri Aug 20, 2004 5:04 pm |
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| Chakotay1988 wrote: | | But it has been proven that gay people do make better parents though. |
Show me what says they make better parents.
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Fri Aug 20, 2004 7:27 pm |
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They're much less likely to abuse their children than heterosexual parents, that's one, 
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Fri Aug 20, 2004 7:56 pm |
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How did you come to that conclusion?
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Sonic74205
Rear Admiral
Joined: 01 Feb 2004
Posts: 4081
Location: England
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| Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:11 pm |
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Because it takes alot of effort and money for a gay person just to have a child. Whereas in hedersexual relationships, alot of the time these days it's cuz the ppl were too anxiouse to do it and couldnt be bothered to put a condom on.
But with a gay couple you would have to really think hard about having a child. It costs a hell of alot of money and there all the tests they have to go through and then they have to find someone that will carry there baby (Most likely in another country) and the travel costs and thee are just so many things. To go through everyhing just to have a baby then they would have to be really determined and it's a choice to have a baby and there willing to put lots of money in it. and not to have a baby by accident and then not believe in abortions etc etc.
This was all on a program that was on a few month ago called "Making Babys The Gay Way"
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